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Balefirestorm

Regarding the new plot cards (from Keynote)

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So, it was mentioned on the SC US keynote that the process for the new Plot cards will be deal 7 and keep 5.

Also, we were told that we need to pick one at the beginning of each turn.

Question: Does this mean that the game will now have a Turn limit of 5 turns?

Or do the plot cards cycle back into our hands at the end of a turn?

I don't mind either way, since the times a game actually last more than 4 turns, are few and far between.

 

What's your thoughts?

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I wish they had broken the cycle of random shared draw. The biggest problem I have with plotcards now is that one player can randomly draw Who Are You and Knee Slider together. They should be drafted if shared. Or two separate decks (with maybe some deck building aspect - oooooh controversial although I think it works from Big League as long as you don’t have silly cards or imbalance between players). 

Single deck draw is going to throw up the same problems of ‘oh, I’ve drawn shite and you’ve drawn the best cards...great.’

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What peaked my interest is that plot cards will now have a value which affects the initiative roll (they give you a bonus to the roll). As the decks are shuffled and drawn randomly, will be there situations where one player draws all the highest initiative value cards and continually wins initiative due to that? Interesting stuff. 

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Yes this is also my concern. We know it adds to momentum so there is no roll now (I assume) but if Butcher’s randomly draw +6,5,4 and you get  +1,2,3 I think that might tip the game in a very dangerous direction. Knowing you have the first activation could be devastating. 

It also removes the underdog element of the winning player rolling a 1 sand the losing player getting back into the game. 

It could also mean the loser of the kick off roll might never get the driving seat back as Last activation might no longer allow you to generate momentum to go first.

We don’t know enough but I am very worried. 

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I'm expecting it to balance out, so the cards with the stronger effects, such as Knee Slider, will have a lower Initiative rate. As we don't have that much information, I think it's too early to judge it either way.

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I agree on lack of info. I just don’t know that a card could be powerful enough to warrant giving up first activation. And if it is...how unbalanced will it be that you draw it randomly. 

I really hate the blind drawing why oh why aren’t they drafted alternately starting with kicker??

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I think I’m with @ningu - hopefully this tempers the skew of the current plot cards by having a balancing factor for the stronger card effects. If you get all the good initiative stuff, you won’t be getting knee slider or the likes.

Also, the fact that they’re openly played for the entire turn means less of a sudden “screw you” when a specific trigger event happens :)

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I think the fact I don't have to remember them anymore is a very good thing!! I just worry that random draw will result in perfect storm effects. I'm getting tired of losing to Knee Slider and Who Are You combined. Hopefully we won't get any more resurrected plot cards (god I hope they don't use the initiative mechanic to bring back Dont Touch the Hair...)

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The initiative value on a card is inversely proportional to its power. So if you have all low initiative cards you’ll be getting pow fil effects, but probably having less control over who activates first. 

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The issue I see with balancing the power against the bonus to initiative is that teams value mechanics very differently and that makes it hard to balance properly.

Lets say that a card said something like "Once this turn a friendly non-captain gets [+1] DMG to playbook damage results until the end of its activation" and has a low initiative bonus because that can be very powerful. Now teams like Brewers, Hunters and Butchers would be all over that because extra damage means something is dead quicker, but Alchemists and Fish are going to hate it for both the effect (they care little for damaging attacks) and get screwed over on the initiative side as well but may end up with no choice but to play the card.

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@Banjulhu That is a good point. Even the current set, different cards suit different teams better than others. For example, playing Shark, I won't take Man Marking, and I'll probably take something else over Sick 'em.

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If I were designing it and the brief was to have powers and iniative I would divorce the two. Give both players cards that read +1 to +5. Then each turn a player can choose which one to add to their momentum. That means that once your opponent gives up their juicy +5, you now have an advantage. Then I would have one deck of plot cards that were drafted openly before the game. That way if one player takes Knee Slider the other guarantees taking the the 2nd best card (say Who Are You). Joining them together sounds like something difficult to balance and worse, because they are blindly drawn, could leave one team with rubbish and another with just what they wanted (all the high initiative cards or all the best cards).

They really need to drop the random draw aspect. I know why it exists - to stop total knowledge. But it's just causing ball aches when the cards fall against you at the very start of the game. I've had tournament games were I've drawn cards I can't use combined with the weakest cards in the deck and that just isnt fun.

SFG - DRAFT!

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I'd hope that they do a community test of the plot cards in the same way they did for Pitch Formations and GIC.

Wider play testing definitely benefited the GIC project.

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Even if there is a problem Steamforged has demonstrated that they listen to players.  I am also leery of the new changes, but I trust that if they are a dumpster fire SFG will work with us to fix it.  I would also be highly surprised if there was not an extensive community play test before they become official.

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The new plot cards would be Season IV though.... and that's not for about a year... correct? Still plenty of time to introduce and tweak like they have done with the GiC's and Alternate set up stuff...with the community input.

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54 minutes ago, EpicChris said:

I thought they said we were looking at a Adepticon/March update for this. A community test would be great (but we'll never agree on power though! :) )

They were looking at Adepticon for them. I think we can agree on the power level: All of mine* should be better than my opponents. 

 

*mine being the current player

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Ah, sorry, Season IV was an assumption on my part. Changing up things mid-season always confuses the hell out of me.... I'm old dammit... I need time to adapt to these sort of shenanigans!!! :P  I wonder if supplemental plot cards will be released then... 'cause we're a few short of a full deck currently if the changes are implemented!

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I had a chance to talk to a lot of the Steamforged guys at SteamCon US, and I think there's been some misinformation here to clarify.

1) The new initiative cards should be out at Adepticon 2018.  That's March 22nd, so they will be here soon.  I think, but am not sure, that they wanted them available to us before the are offical.  Given that, I don't think they will be considered "season" cards.  They could just make them part of the OPD.

2) The cards plus your momentum replace the dice roll.  If you are tied with your opponent after adding the card and your momentum, then you will roll off for turn order.  The second player will still get a point of momentum.

3) The cards also have an Influence modifier.  You might have a card that is +7 Initiative, but -3 Influence; exactly what you need when you can win the game on that first activation.  I don't know what the ranges for numbers are, but I suspect no more than 5 initiative and no more than 2 influence  (despite my example).

4) They did consider having each player have their own deck of cards, but they like the partial information granted by getting dealt 7 of the 18 cards, so you know for sure that your opponent doesn't have the 7 you saw, but there are 11 they could have.  As with everything, I think they are willing to listen if people are really vocal about it.  It will be annoying for a tournament organizer to have to have spare sets of cards if each player needs their own set, because you know people will forget them, and it also opens up a path for people to cheat (that wasn't something SF mentioned, it's just a problem I could see if someone was really invested in winning at all costs).

5) There has been a lot of playtesting of this set up internally.  I brought up the fact that someone way ahead in Momentum would be in a strong win-more position if they have a bunch of low initiative cards with strong effects, and they told me it was something they have worked with in playtest.  So far the balance has been really good, so I'm not too worried, personally.

6) If you run out of cards, you don't automatically lose (but why are you taking 5 rounds to win or lose?).  You'll either play your fifth card and take the previous 4 back to your hand for future rounds, or a full re-deal will happen (I'd much prefer a re-deal, it's a lot more interesting).  That said, you will be playing a card each turn, and the effects will be active for that round.  Having them face up where both players can see them should cut down on forgetting to use them.

Hopefully this was comprehensive enough, but if anyone has further questions, I didn't ask any of this stuff behind 'closed doors' so if I know something, I'm happy to share it.  As always, things can be changed (and I could be incorrect about some things), so don't go betting your life on this info.

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