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      Tales of Infamy   12/13/2017

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Snow

Union 101

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So I've been learning the game with hunters so far, I've also had a couple of games with Honour masons. Played a couple with my union too.

So far I have:

Blackheart, Coin, Rage/Vet Rage, Seasoned Brisket, Minx, Grace, Benediction, Mist, Snakeskin, A&G, Gutter 

Fair bit of experience with Minx in hunters. Haven't used a&g, rage/Vet Rage, Gutter or seasoned brisket yet. The others I've used once or twice. 

Eventually looking to refine a 10 that can kill/score or mix it up, as required. Interested to hear any tactics /lineups / key players to add. Cheers!

 :P:

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Rage2 and Blackheart are considered the best of the 3 captains, but I'm more comfortable with Brisket3 myself.  I'll take B3, Rage2 and Strongbox for starters.  I like Coin a lot, and I think he's better for Brisket3 than Strongbox is, but I think it's more important to have more player options than a mascot option.  And Strongbox does more for a Brisket3 team than many mascots for any team, so I'm ok with it.

Rage2 is your killer.  He goes into teams that want to play the ball.  IMO, he requires Gutter and Benediction.  Gutter's a murderer with him and Red Fury and her and him can get a Takeout apiece every turn if they'd like.  Benediction does the pushes.  Another great Red Fury target to position models or clear Rage up before he annihilates things.  He's also very good at holding the ball, and Sturdy's a great thing to be able to hand out.  Plus, Benny can act like an arc node with his "impart wisdom" trait, giving Rage2's "Red Fury" ability an 8'' range instead of just 4''.  This is an amazing ability that guarantees Benny a spot in every Rage2 list, IMO.

Brisket3 wants Harry really bad.  Harry provides the free dodges from kicks, has some great pushes, and brings some control to a team that doesn't really want to fight. 

Both Captains want Mist available, and Brisket3 specifically needs him.  He's a great target for "I'm Open" and he's extremely good around Brisket3 because she's a solthecian so he gets that dodge.  This is true in a Rage2 list that brings Benediction as well. 

So that's Rage2, Brisket3, Strongbox, Gutter, Benediction, Harry the Hat, Mist.  Three left.

Decimate is a solid option.  She brings a great toolbox with debuffs, she ignores an ARM, and she's got the kicking stats that Brisket3 wants.  If I don't absolutely need 2'' melee in a Brisket3 list, Decimate is the girl I bring.  I've been known to bring both Gutter and Decimate, but I don't do that a lot.

Minx is solid in a Rage2 list.  She brings INF and doesn't need it back.  She loves the heroics and really is just a nice supporting random murderer.  I like her in my Rage2 lists instead of both Gutter and Decimate.  Usually one of those, Minx, Benediction, Mist and Strongbox.  If I'm going all in on killing, I'll push Mist out and put in whichever Gutter or Decimate I didn't use.

Rage1 has been in my roster for a long time as a random damage dealer in a Brisket3 list I want to go 2-2 with (2 kills, 2 goals).  If he can't get a charge off, he can still Tool Up Brisket3 who can do work with 6INF and Momentous 3 on column 3 with TAC5.  Get a crowd out or two, and Brisket's perfectly capable of taking down targets.  I actually like this a lot into Masons where Brisket3 can be counted on to kill Flint if she can get a crowd out or two or the vengeance token from the plot card.  However, I'm starting to think about dropping him for either Grace or Hemlock.

Grace makes things faster, helps healing rates and is another Solthecian for Mist.  Not a bad addition in any case.

Hemlock has Blind and decent kick stats, plus some condition removal.  It's blind that really interests me.  Some of these powerhouse melee monsters don't really like blind.

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@Jedianakinsolo makes some good point's although I disagree with a couple.

1. I haven't found that Harrold is that important to Brisket myself. He has some use but often the match ups you want Brisket are when you want to play a spread out game. Therefore after turn 1 the realistic chance of getting work out of the Hat are greatly reduced.

2. I think Rage is probably the most efficient and reliable of the 3 captains and Brisket makes a fantastic alternative pick if you want to play a fast game and push the tempo. 

3. I understand the point about using OG Rage with her for a 2-2. However, I think in most competitive games when you pick her you are going for 3-0. Vet Rage can play a 2-2 just fine anyway. Plus OG Rage can't be the target of I'm Open which is rough.

For what it's worth I would go for the following 10 if you want Brisket and Vet Rage. 

Vet Rage 

Brisket 

Turtle 

Mist 

Gutter 

Benny 

Decimate 

Then your flex picks are probably.. 

Hemlock 

G-Ace/Minx 

Snakeskin/Minx.

 

I go very hot n cold with Minx.

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15 hours ago, Totes McAwesome said:

@Jedianakinsolo makes some good point's ...needless context.  Everything after this is really irrelevant. -another good point, by Jedianakinsolo

  As far as Harry the Hat goes, I use him all the time in her list, and the passing Aura is awesome for "I'm Open" shenanigans.  Especially on first turn where it kind of lets me dodge her around quite a bit, but I get to keep the momentum.  Several games have been front foot forward for me extremely quickly because I build up momentum from passing on turn 1, dodge everything up that I want to dodge up, score, and still have enough Momentum to win the rolloff.  At that point, whoever scored tackles the ball off of whomever received it after the goal kick and possibly scores again.  8-0 is hard to come back from, and Brisket's legendary hasn't even been used yet.  Even without that aura, Harry's got a decent amount of control that keeps the Brisket list ticking a bit.  It's a playstyle thing though.

  I agree with 2. wholeheartedly. 

  I kind of agree with 3.  The last time I took him, the situations where I wanted him were very few, and it would have been nicer to have Hemlock or Grace.

  Minx is quietly good.  It's the 2 INF and still some momentum generation from her that I like.  She's a great back door character that donates a lot to the team but can otherwise run around and harass and let the two or three models that need to do work have enough INF to get it done. 

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Thanks guys - plenty of tec to chew over! 

Any tips into Cogs for my game tomorrow? Presumably taking a beaty team would be the way to go? 

Unfortunately don't have Harry, Strongbox, A&G or Decimate yet 

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I'd take a standard list - vRage, Gutter, Benediction, Mist, Minx, and I am partial to Strongbox but Coin is likely the correct choice.

Against Engineers, it's easy to lose to poor target acquisition. You don't want to lay into someone like Hoist to start things off - you'll spend way too much time trying to kill him and you'll get outscored in the meantime. You also need to be aware of all of the Reanimate models. Make sure that you can kill the model through triggering Reanimate - the usual strategy of keeping a model at low HP going into a turn is doubly important here because of that. 

Gutter is great as always. Make a scrum by Chain Grabbing off of the first person who comes into you. If they turtle up with a Ballista gun line, try to lead the advance with Rage and Benediction - Regeneration and Rising Anger make them awkward targets - while Gutter and Minx go up the wings to set up for a Rage charge into a good target. Ratchet, Harry and Colossus are both great targets for a Gutter explosion. Ballista himself isn't too bad either, and a KD'd Pin Vice or Velocity will do the job just fine as well.

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Cheers, I was just sitting here thinking of almost the same lineup, but with Snakeskin instead of Minx. I got annoyed with mist against masons armour last week, but maybe it's less of a factor with engineers. I was also thinking Snakeskin could help out more with damage output where required? 

The other option I was looking at was Blackheart and oRage, instead of vRage and Snakeskin/Mist. Have no idea if that's at all legit though. 

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Snakeskin's ball killing potential is pretty solid, especially against Engineers with their lack of 2" melee, but I don't think you need a dedicated model for that unless you're playing against someone like Shark, and her damage output is not that impressive. Benediction and Mist will do a solid job of keeping the ball controlled without making you spend 3+ INF on it every turn, and Rage+Gutter+Minx will do plenty of damage. Benediction's 2 damage on 3 is not exciting, but the team is designed to get as many TAC bonuses as possible and may be an acceptable option for damage as well.

Mist will admittedly have some troubles against Engineer's armor, but he's your only way to reliably threaten when kicking off. You could make an argument for picking someone else if you're receiving, but I appreciate having a reliable goal threat, on top of an extra 2" melee for crowd outs/engages for Bloody Coin. 

For full disclosure, Decimate is a very solid pick into them, and would likely replace Minx if you had access to her.

I think Blackheart is a fine captain, but I've never been excited about playing him and never have, so I can't comment on how well Blackheart + oRage perform. However, I agree with the idea that if you want to take oRage with one of the other Union captains, you are probably better off just playing a vRage team.

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I'd do Rage2 into them as well.  Be careful though because Ballista will try to shove him around and force him to use quickfoot to get in range.  Watch out for that.  Might worth bringing Grace just for that.  I'd also bring Benediction because he's awesome, and he hangs onto a ball pretty decent, as does Snakeskin.  Gutter's a must for sure. 

  Coin will be fine. Means Gutter can get 3 INF plus bag of coffers every turn.  I wish every mascot did as much as Coin could do.  Strongbox just does better for Rage, that's all.  Nothing wrong with Coin though.

  I don't even know if I'd take Mist.  He's a good kickoff contender but I'd almost kick with Rage, trying to get him up the field as fast as possible.

 

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Bring Grace for quickfoot? I do like her influence efficiency and she always scores goals for me too. Being able to have a second model with "captain level" influence stack is nice. 

How are people using Benny's 'Impart Wisdom?' Never seem to make use of it, so there's obviously something I've not wrapped my head around yet there. 

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Grace definitely has some game into Engineers, both increasing Rage's threat range to make up for Deadbolt and clearing rough ground AoEs from Blast Earth is a nice bonus. I'd consider her in that Minx/Decimate flex. 

It took a while for me to really evaluate Impart Wisdom, but it's won me so many games by extending the range of Red Fury. I don't usually set up my plays with it in mind, but it's a super powerful tool for giving Rage options. If Rage gets deadbolted into the ground, but Benediction and Gutter both manage to get on someone, Rage can be 11" from Benediction and still use Red Fury on Gutter (5" jog + 6" Impart Wisdom). Many games I won't do anything fancy with it - I'll just get use out of the extra 2" range to Benediction alone, as he's the main pusher for getting enemies into Rage's charge lanes - but that alone can be a game changer.

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5 hours ago, Snow said:

Bring Grace for quickfoot? I do like her influence efficiency and she always scores goals for me too. Being able to have a second model with "captain level" influence stack is nice. 

How are people using Benny's 'Impart Wisdom?' Never seem to make use of it, so there's obviously something I've not wrapped my head around yet there. 

Yeah, quickfoot mainly.  It's free every turn.  It's rare you won't get a good use out of it.

Impart Wisdom is amazing.  Let's say Red Fury on Rage2, since that's where I see the most use.  First activation, Snakeskin has the ball, she's engaged, and it's your turn to go.  You want to activate Rage2 first, get his legendary up, remove a model from the board, all that nonsense, but if you do Rage2 first, the ball gets tackled from Snakeskin next activation and your opponent likely scores.  We could Red Fury her, but she's around 8'' away so you'd have to move towards her at least 4'' and the target you need to charge is not in that direction.  Benediction, however, is within 4'' of her, and within 6'' of Rage2.  So Rage2 can still use Red Fury, but it acts like it Benediction casts it.  Snakeskin is within 4'' of Benediction.  She attacks her target, gets the Momentous Clone up and now she's set up to protect the ball.  Rage goes ahead and charges his target.  If you ever played Warmachine, Benediction acts just like an Arc Node.

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Will have to try that in future. Haven't even used red fury yet. Rage was generally just using his inf to stab people.

My game was 6-2 in the end. My opponent has played less games and we were explaining the game to a spectator, so unfortunately we ran out of time. He had several players very low on health too.

Took vRage, Coin, Grace, Benediction, Gutter and Minx. I still like Grace, she is great at ball retrieval, but I wonder if Mist would have been a better ball holder so I was wasting less resources retrieving. 

Will be getting Decimate soon, so I wonder about just putting her in for Grace and going all out stabby! Minx has the speed to threaten goal effectively and bonus time is a thing. I'm only aiming for one goal to close anyway. She could've had a six point activation in this game, but I decided to murder colossus with rage instead, giving my opponent chance to react to Minx. 

Anyway the colossus takeout was fun. Charged rage into KD, snared colossus with three crowdouts and had 2inf spare to quickfoot Gutter once colossus was dead 

I do enjoy Coin, but I'm assuming everyone takes Strongbox for Shelling Out in the scrum? 

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3 hours ago, Snow said:

I do enjoy Coin, but I'm assuming everyone takes Strongbox for Shelling Out in the scrum? 

Pretty much. He's not really worth taking out, as he's quite hard, and only concedes 1 VP,  but his key abilities are all passive so you don't have to spend influence on him.

Whilst Grace has some advantages over Mist, Mist is a much better striker. You can have vRage & co in the scrum in the middle, and Mist is free to go off and score.

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1 hour ago, ningu said:

Pretty much. He's not really worth taking out, as he's quite hard, and only concedes 1 VP,  but his key abilities are all passive so you don't have to spend influence on him.

Also Confidence is great with both Mist to secure the kick off goal, Hemlocke for obvious reasons and vRage to maximize the odds of wrapping on the charge.  It's not even OPT so turn 1 he can often use it twice!

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Holy shit, I just reread confidence and realised it said one OR MORE dice! Given that vRage was at tac 16 at one point in my first game... 

Just wondering how much I'll miss the extra three influence without Coin or Grace 

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1 hour ago, Snow said:

Holy shit, I just reread confidence and realised it said one OR MORE dice! Given that vRage was at tac 16 at one point in my first game... 

Just wondering how much I'll miss the extra three influence without Coin or Grace 

That was definitely a concern of mine too, but that's one of the things that makes both Benediction and Minx attractive.  It's rare I give Minx anything and she still does work.  I may not give Benediction anything either, but I can often trigger his character plays off of his playbook with Red Fury.

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Strongbox is very good, but he's slow and I've definitely had games where I was never in a position to get someone into Shelling Out, and all he did was give a Confidence to Mist that maybe generated me 1 extra MOM. I really like him, but unless you're confident in being able to generate a scrum that he is nearby, Coin is often a good pick against teams that are trying to outrun you on the flanks to score some quick goals or play a turtling strategy where a 3" jog isn't going to cut it - Shark, Smoke, and Ballista just to name a few.

I still try to take Strongbox as much as possible because I really appreciate that he doesn't put any pressure on my activation order, which is one of my favorite things about playing vRage in general. But I'd be lying if I said there weren't matchups where Coin is definitely just better.

14 hours ago, Snow said:

Just wondering how much I'll miss the extra three influence without Coin or Grace 

You're only down 2 INF overall, but I also wouldn't look at Grace as a 3 INF model. Yes, technically she does generate a total of 3 INF, but the 2 INF that she gets isn't always used particularly well. Unless I specifically want to use Quick Foot or Healing Rain, or I'm getting use out of Purity, I'd rather take a different model most of the time. I'd rather have 2 INF I can put anywhere all the time, than 2 INF I have to sometimes throw away and only 1 INF I can put anywhere.

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5 hours ago, Akaleth said:

Strongbox is very good, but he's slow and I've definitely had games where I was never in a position to get someone into Shelling Out, and all he did was give a Confidence to Mist that maybe generated me 1 extra MOM. I really like him, but unless you're confident in being able to generate a scrum that he is nearby, Coin is often a good pick against teams that are trying to outrun you on the flanks to score some quick goals or play a turtling strategy where a 3" jog isn't going to cut it - Shark, Smoke, and Ballista just to name a few.

I still try to take Strongbox as much as possible because I really appreciate that he doesn't put any pressure on my activation order, which is one of my favorite things about playing vRage in general. But I'd be lying if I said there weren't matchups where Coin is definitely just better.

You're only down 2 INF overall, but I also wouldn't look at Grace as a 3 INF model. Yes, technically she does generate a total of 3 INF, but the 2 INF that she gets isn't always used particularly well. Unless I specifically want to use Quick Foot or Healing Rain, or I'm getting use out of Purity, I'd rather take a different model most of the time. I'd rather have 2 INF I can put anywhere all the time, than 2 INF I have to sometimes throw away and only 1 INF I can put anywhere.

Solthecius will smite thee with righteous fury for spewing this blasphemy!

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A&G and Decimate arrived today, how much does this change my world?

Hopefully have chance to get a few games in this Sunday! :) Probably against Blacksmiths, farmers and/or Masons. Possibly brewers. 

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A&G are fun for when you want to dunk on people and do a bunch of damage, but are otherwise not very great right now. They're *really* slow, and neither half is strong alone - when one of them dies, they're both essentially useless for the rest of the game. 

Decimate is a solid pick though. She probably won't rock your world or anything, but I'd never be sad to put her on the pitch. She's an especially solid option against Blacksmiths and Masons, with their low defense and high armor.

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Got a couple of games in yesterday. 

12-0 whitewashed morticians, including rage deleting two unactivated pieces in one turn. 

Tried playing a game with Trisket, Coin, Mist, Snakeskin, Grace and Decimate into Hammer masons for a laugh. Lost 12-4. I realise it's probably a bit of a silly team to take, but I just wanted to try Trisket and all my kickers. Didn't help that Snakeskin missed a goal that would've put me 8-0 up, allowing hammer a six point activation.

It occurred to me to ask if there are any matchups where union actually want to play football? Thresher I guess? And what lineups/tactics are people using? Seems as if vRage can probably just out-murder most people. 

On a separate note, any tips into blacksmiths? That'll probably be my next game, next week. I'm thinking I want vRage and high tac, anatomical etc. I'm not taking any more low tac into armour, it's too frustrating! 😂

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