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Lee

'smiths experiences so far?

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Hola, Nerdmigos. 

It seems to have dropped off a little around here, so in order to fan the flames of discussion I'd be very interested to hear about any matches you've played, who against, and who you used. 

I had a One Man game* with them using my Hunters and a simple "Go for the nearest player" sort of play method for them. I think I was subconsciously weighting it for Blacksmiths to win so i can't really take of any of that going in to tonight's games.

Cheers. 

*One man GB... that is a Hobby low!  None of my local buddies will even look at the game (AoS or GTFO :(), and my Mrs had the car so I couldn't got to the FLGS. Ugh. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Lee said:

*One man GB... that is a Hobby low!  None of my local buddies will even look at the game (AoS or GTFO :(), and my Mrs had the car so I couldn't got to the FLGS. Ugh.

First some posted about his porposal and now this. It's a rollercoaster of emotions. :D

But seriously, I am going to play them tomorrow again. Didn't have a lot of time recently. What I personally realized is that Iron and Ferrite are just not meant for me. Those are the ones I am not going to take. I also highly disagree with Ferrite being "the only real choice as Captain", it is actually the other way around for me. Just not my playstyle. I prefer Hearth, Anvil, Furnace. Still gotta try out the other two, but I am pretty sure only Ferrite is not my forte. And I can only imagine the shenanigans I could do with Shoemerang. Damn I'm excited!

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I've had 2 (techincally 3? dunno what you'd actually call the 3rd one) tournamants with the contents of the first box (just got my second and going to use that on it's own today) and various games round about.

I've been up against almost all of the guilds, some more than others.

Masons - Hate them and likely always will. Honour, Harmony, Brick and Marbles can get smashed with an anvil. I'm likely at the stage where I'm overthinking it/underthinking it because I feel I can't do anything so need to sort that, but hopefully the new tools will help there. Hammer in a non pro hands I can handle and happily face, been told otherwise if hammer knows what he's doing (by our local meta pros)

Brewers - Tapper, yes please, can sort him out (singled out plus kd great, plus searing strike= ideal) sledge was throwing piledriving 7s all the time. Esters, had bad luck against her and more limited experience. Gmass is annoying for us I've found as all your damage stuff needs to hit to make the right impact.

Alchemists - I don't actually think I played a game against them.. in the sense my guys are dead before the halfway line and the only points I got was from a kamikaze Katalyst wrecking face. Midas I've only had a game and it was close

Butchers - Ox I can handle, if things go right initially you are fairly sorted. Fillet on the other hand, our favoured tactic of bunching up appeals to her, the amount of dice her and Boiler were rolling against me was 40k worthy.

Farmers - Little experience but I think they are fairly manageable for us, be it football or fighting. But that was against Grange and a first timer, I've heard bad things with Tater and Co.

Morticians - Can be pretty rough, Character plays are their thing and we give them it without much trial. Even Scalpel was wrecking Anvil without much hassle and he's our tank. I've had obvious good times against unexperienced Morts, but otherwise I've struggled

Union - My most faced and practiced (with or without Smiths) so I can always keep the game close with these guys. Would be nicer with the new tools but I could manage it with what I had.

Hunters - Not a meta favourte so actually no experience with them, but having played them solid before smiths, I think it'll be interesting to face it.

Any that's my 2 cents of experience, Seems I like half of each team and struggle/inexperienced in handle the rest of the play styles.

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Very comprehensive response there, thanks for that!

I have both boxes and think Box 2 might be more suited to me - fast goals, stay out of trouble - but I'd look at swapping out Farris and Bolt for Ferrite and Iron depending on what my mate turns up with. Or Furnace and Cinder... hmmmm. 

My Bogey team is Butchers. I've only ever had one close game with them, every other time has been a drubbing. 

3 hours ago, Cole said:

First some posted about his porposal and now this. It's a rollercoaster of emotions. :D

But seriously, I am going to play them tomorrow again. Didn't have a lot of time recently. What I personally realized is that Iron and Ferrite are just not meant for me. Those are the ones I am not going to take. I also highly disagree with Ferrite being "the only real choice as Captain", it is actually the other way around for me. Just not my playstyle. I prefer Hearth, Anvil, Furnace. Still gotta try out the other two, but I am pretty sure only Ferrite is not my forte. And I can only imagine the shenanigans I could do with Shoemerang. Damn I'm excited!

Ha haa yeah but at least won a game... :rolleyes: :D

Very interesting! I like how it's still all to play for with regards to line ups. I don't follow Net Meta as a rule, so I'm really looking forward to sharing war stories with folks regarding different line ups and such.  

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1 hour ago, Lee said:

Very comprehensive response there, thanks for that!

I have both boxes and think Box 2 might be more suited to me - fast goals, stay out of trouble - but I'd look at swapping out Farris and Bolt for Ferrite and Iron depending on what my mate turns up with. Or Furnace and Cinder... hmmmm. 

My Bogey team is Butchers. I've only ever had one close game with them, every other time has been a drubbing. 

Ha haa yeah but at least won a game... :rolleyes: :D

Very interesting! I like how it's still all to play for with regards to line ups. I don't follow Net Meta as a rule, so I'm really looking forward to sharing war stories with folks regarding different line ups and such.  

I have one. It suprised my opponent so much that we both shared a hard laugh about it. He won, but nontheless:

I had Sledge, fully loaded. I could try to kill Windle, but he's tough hide-ed. Okay, there is Harrow, but completely full.

Fuck it

Sledge actually did 19 damage. First hit momentous 8 (he was tooled up) and Piledriver (after the first free one) and the second one did Momentous 8 and momentous 3. Boy what a hit!

Another game I won 12-0 against hunters after a clutch Legendary from Anvil, who KD a target, used Singled Out, WtiiH and did some damage. He was not able to kill a fully loaded Sledge and then Sledge went on a rampage in his lineup.

Story three: On hitted a Mascot after a charge with Sledge (I get the distinct feeling there is a pattern) and then did a goal with him. The movement shenanigans with Hearth are just insane, cause that was in Round 2

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Well had my game....

I used the new box just as it was, against Brewers with Esters, Scum, Friday, Hooper, Pintpot and VSpigot.

Yeah despite knowing they were the football team I couldn't get the ball which resulted in me being in the scrum. Alloy AND Cast could NOT kill Pintpot. Everytime I got him to really low then the dice just flubbed on me (what can you do?) Should have been a take out.

When I did get the ball Farris was only just coming onto the pitch so no chance of me getting a goal (Shoemaranged it off Spiggot then killed the ball with Burnish away over to my deployment line, best and only football thing I did) So my goal was then to just get points, and the dice did me in again so conceeded as I was taken out left right and center.

Wasn't in the best of moods plus "Curse of the Unpainted" with a salting of angry dice gods huh? Enjoyed it nevertheless and was good to get the new stuff on the table at least. On to game 2

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@Cole - Great write ups there! Yes I'm sensing a theme. I think I'll give FFS a run out next game. I really struggled getting any momentum or causing much damage last night, and it turns out I don't really have the finesse for footballing game. I could have had 1 goal, 1 take out but didn't realise how shit Ferrite is at swinging! 

I took Ferrite, Iron, Burnish, Cast, Hearth and Alloy. Alloy scored for me on his first activation, then got murdered twice. The rest of the team spent the rest of the game on their arses or tied up with the Farmers 2" melee zones. Tater... Man, I do not like him. SO much extra influence every turn from Harvest Markers. Sheesh. It gets a bit wacky. 

Essentially, my game sounds a LOT like yours, @WhiteYin  We seem to buy our dice from the same place, at the very least. Had a good chat with my mate afterwards, and where he's had 100s of games, I've probably not even had 30 in total, with 4 teams, over the 3 years or so I've been 'playing' so I'm still very much in NOOB territory.  

But yes, on to game 2 :D

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On 11/29/2017 at 8:35 AM, Lee said:

*One man GB... that is a Hobby low!  None of my local buddies will even look at the game (AoS or GTFO :(), and my Mrs had the car so I couldn't got to the FLGS. Ugh.

This is nothing to be ashamed of! Everyone has to go solo every now and then. Needs must and all that. Just be careful because if you do it too much you might go blind.

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1 hour ago, Selfy said:

This is nothing to be ashamed of! Everyone has to go solo every now and then. Needs must and all that. Just be careful because if you do it too much you might go blind.

Wouldn't worry too much, done it for years, only ended up with glasses

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I was able to play my smiths at SteamCon in well over a dozen games. I have to say I loved em. They had a very real feeling of versatility that I haven't felt in a while from my alchemists and moreover they were damn fun to play! 

Couple of quick run downs:

Shark fish: Ferrite, Iron, Hearth, Alloy, Furnace, Cinder - I am down 8-0 after his first activation in the second turn. I begin operation keep away and spend the next several rounds kiting his players around the board with Alloy and the ball while I begin the take out game. Won it 12-10! 

Corsair Fish: Same as above list. Baited him into pulling both Hearth and Furnace in allowing me to bring up Alloy for a goal. Beginning early turn 3 Ferrite shut corsair down... hobbled, disarmed, weak pointed corsair, crowded by one with Feritte in cover becomes the saddest of puppies. 

Mirror: These two games I lost. Burnish's legendary makes Ferrite sad and Cast is a monster into burning blacksmiths!

Farmers: 1-1 Lost to Thresher beat Grange.... don't really know how I feel about playing into farmers just yet.

There were plenty more but overall I loved the 6 man I played above. Iron shenanigans on the opening turn can get you up the board rather quickly. Alloy is amazing! Ferrite is damn good too!!

 

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I’ve been toying with the first box in Escalation and for me Blacksmiths can give a lot to different play styles.

 

i have run Ferrite a few times as the captain now and I am slowly going off the idea.  I find that a 5 influence activation on any of the three masters just not like other teams super star captains so I play a bit of a reactive game with lower influence numbers pooled around the team.

 

also I am much preferring the football aspect and using players like Furnace for the reach and the burn.  For me he’s doing a fair bit of the work with his low access to pushes.  His apprentice is also so tricksy I always like having her skirting round the edges to pounce on a ball or drive some easy momentum at the end of a turn if nothing more.

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I had two games back to back on Saturday, against Morticians. I used FFS. 

Lost 12-4 and 12-0. 

Cosset just glides through 'smiths like a hot knife through butter. Reliably takes out a full health model in one activation. I wonder if Apprentices need more health, or should only gain one 1VP when taken out?! Also, as per usual, my rolls were crap. Cinder whiffed 3 or 4 hits at graves, when I only needed the one momentous hit. I couldn't make a successful pass in the first game. 

Discussing the games later, we realised just how many pushes 'smiths have. I was looking for damage so wasn't paying attention to the rest of the play book. I have to remember that and keep them out fights in future. 

Considering dropping Anvil and Sledge for Hearth and Alloy. I just don't think I got much out of them. Cinder was OK, Furnace brought his Inf for the wider team... Iron was the best player in both games, with Ferrite not really doing much either. I might just give MCA a full run out! 

I learnt a lot, but it's frustrating to once again end up with a Thinking Team. I only bought in to them because I was under the impression they were broken nonsense and I just really want to win a few games! 

So yeah, pretty much business as usual for me and being shit at Guild Ball! 

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4 minutes ago, Lee said:

I had two games back to back on Saturday, against Morticians. I used FFS. 

Lost 12-4 and 12-0. 

Cosset just glides through 'smiths like a hot knife through butter. Reliably takes out a full health model in one activation. I wonder if Apprentices need more health, or should only gain one 1VP when taken out?! Also, as per usual, my rolls were crap. Cinder whiffed 3 or 4 hits at graves, when I only needed the one momentous hit. I couldn't make a successful pass in the first game. 

Discussing the games later, we realised just how many pushes 'smiths have. I was looking for damage so wasn't paying attention to the rest of the play book. I have to remember that and keep them out fights in future. 

Considering dropping Anvil and Sledge for Hearth and Alloy. I just don't think I got much out of them. Cinder was OK, Furnace brought his Inf for the wider team... Iron was the best player in both games, with Ferrite not really doing much either. I might just give MCA a full run out! 

I learnt a lot, but it's frustrating to once again end up with a Thinking Team. I only bought in to them because I was under the impression they were broken nonsense and I just really want to win a few games! 

So yeah, pretty much business as usual for me and being shit at Guild Ball! 

Lee, I can't add much to the Morts v Blacksmith topic but your post sounded real defeatist. 

Guildball is a grueling game to learn and the curve is hard. Don't get down on one loss / a string of losses. I smashed my head against a wall of insane talent before getting any good at the game. As long as you take away something from a game, it wasn't a waste of time!

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Good points, Aaron. It's always more doom and gloom on these posts than I really feel about it. Tom said the second game was more of a struggle for him due to my setting up, so that's something to take in to the next games. 

I didn't add in the Fun Stuff, so here goes:

Iron was engaged by Skulk.The Puppet Controller Dude had the ball down near the Morts goal. I decided to have a crack at a goal so I threw up Impetus and went for it.

He left Skulks MZ, no problem... sprinted through Graves MZ, no problem... sprinted through Obulous MZ... :KD:

NOOO!

But Iron was within an inch of TPCD. Jumped up for one MOM, threw the tackle, got the ball, scored the goal. 

That was a great moment! 

Cinder tackled Graves, but was out of range for a pass. She tackled, dropped the ball behind her, then Killed it. Quite fun to do and really messed up the Morts game. 

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Been thinking about this today, and I am SMFH for not throwing up Counter Attacks or Defensive Stances on the Cosset charges. I was forgetting Legendary Plays too. I have a problem with NOT looking at the back of my cards so I'll print off the double front PDFs and get them laminated. 

That said, something has clicked. Next game I'm going for a more football based game plan. Anvil and Sledge will stay at the back. Anvil will will dodge everyone up 2", then drop back. Furnace will take up a central role to soften people up with Searing Strike which may help with Conder for Hot Shot/Kill The Ball. Ferrite and Iron have enough MOV jank to threaten a goal. 

Kill the Ball to Sledge, who can long bomb it back in to play. Otherwise he and Anvil can sit back and generate Inf for the rest, or pick of any strikers that come close enough (hopefully already weakened by SS). 

OK, that's the plan. Just need to get some games in. 

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Man my Win to loss ratio is terrible :D I played Hunters as my "first guild" (they weren't but they came out shortly after I properly started playing the system and stuck with them until Smiths came out..... felt like forever and this was well before I knew smiths were becoming a thing :D) But here I am. And yeah I see now that you weren't being totally defeatist, just making that a point.

In comparison Blacksmiths aren't as thinky, and really most guilds are thinky but in different ways. Sure Butchers just get stuck in, but they set-up and go after specific targets etc to get the best out of themselves, we aren't much different.

I've struggled and still do with Morticians, but thats mostly due to the guy using them being top 3 material in our local meta and I'm a scrub in comparison lol But Morticians have the benefit same as Alchemists have against us... our medicore DEF stats. If you want that powerful play to go off, smiths will allow it to happen for the most part. But with low def means higer playbook reaches but thankfully at least in that depo we have high armour.

Out of Box 1 my opinion remains as such

Anvil - Love the big guy and he does what he does well, but it's hard to get him into position to really utilise his good points and eventually becomes a rather hard to kill (if you keep him topped up of course) 3INF battery (do we really need that though? not really....)

Sledge - Take-outs many times with him, but he's likely the first to die shortly if not immediately after. But sadly he really does need the big guy to shine so take both or leave both and more often than not, you'll not take them.

Furnace - Tooling up himself can mean he can fairly reliably deal 6-8 damage, so as a finisher he does well. Generally he's been my captain for the most part sharing the spot with Ferrite so he's usually sorted to do what he does best. But he does have pushes so he can be handy to bring people into the scrum and searing strike is nice with Masons etc. And because he is usually the most forward character, he has became a goal scorer a good number of times.

Cinder - My you will get INF  target for the most part (yes that means I prioritised giving INF to anvil over her) SHe does well but I found I put myself into positions where she is no longer needed or ideal to invest in. Hot shot is great and has caught off a few opponents and the lucky ones have won me games (her last short for me did that, was a hail mary cause I could and bam it did....never felt so good in my puff :D) but really I haven't had use out of her. Her outing with Hearth around didn't go well but first game with the combo, not taking sides yet.

Ferrite - Does what she does and does it well. Once i learned how to turn 1 goal I kept doing it, kicking or reciving didn't matter. Feels great. But she is also a good utility player and shouldn't be discarded as such. Disarm and Weak Point are great and easy to aquire. Even if Ferrite runs into a scrum, gets to go first/early, she can hit a few folk and debuff them before acrobatting out and legging it to safety/set up for a goal next turn. Don't throw her a side, play with her and you'll find a niche you like with her.

Iron - Ahh the locomotive, love this guy (haven't actually used him in a while) but actually thining about it, he hasn't done a HUGE deal for me :D Actually think he has netted me only about 2 goals and I've had the team since not far off earliest release. But he is also a beater and can be better than sledge simply due to more INF allocation. He's finished/ crippled enough folk for me than he has been a footballer and i think I'll keep in that niche for me the now (Going to try a full football team shortly, but next game is Morticians so not entirely sure...)

Anyway my 2 cents, most problems you are having will be sorted once you have swapped them out so keep at it and just enjoy it. There is no "This guild makes you win" and it's why I love the system.

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Not sure how I haven't posted here yet. I got my second box this past week and have been proxying since we've had enough cards to field a 6 player squad. I come from a brewer's background. Playing the blacksmiths is great because you always have an option based on the jank they provide. I've played into Skatha hunters and Ox butchers mostly. I was capable of 2-2 outfighting the hunters and 3-0 outscoring the butchers. We just seem to have a great deal of Flexibility.

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Good posts there, lads. Cheers!

@WhiteYin very interesting summary. I just need more game time and to look at my cards! Furnace and Ferrite can take the teeth out of most line ups, but I wasn't looking at the cards enough and just doing basic nonsense. And the pushes - I could easily Counter Attack every charge and get a push out of combat or a KD. Especially if Furnace or Ferrite have gone up first and softened them up! 

Looking forward to the next run out! 

edit - I tendd to flip flop around teams, and just as I thought I was getting a handle on Hunters I went in on ''smiths. I'm being strict on my self though, ten games with each 'smiths Box, then decide. It seems MCA is needed to get the most out of the line up, but I am convinced I can make FFS work. Luckily I snagged a copy of MCA! 

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2 hours ago, Lee said:

Good posts there, lads. Cheers!

@WhiteYin very interesting summary. I just need more game time and to look at my cards! Furnace and Ferrite can take the teeth out of most line ups, but I wasn't looking at the cards enough and just doing basic nonsense. And the pushes - I could easily Counter Attack every charge and get a push out of combat or a KD. Especially if Furnace or Ferrite have gone up first and softened them up! 

Looking forward to the next run out! 

edit - I tendd to flip flop around teams, and just as I thought I was getting a handle on Hunters I went in on ''smiths. I'm being strict on my self though, ten games with each 'smiths Box, then decide. It seems MCA is needed to get the most out of the line up, but I am convinced I can make FFS work. Luckily I snagged a copy of MCA! 

Hi me!

I do this all the time with systems, like them too much, buy everything and jump about and learn nothing before moving onto something else. Stopped that and funnily enough it helps :D

Keep at it, I went deep end and did 2 tournaments one after the other with the first box so I learned pretty quickly what I can and can't do, to be fair to it, it isn't a bad box.

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@WhiteYin I have to disagree with you on the Thinky part (maybe in comp too hunters I suppose.) though perhaps my option is colored by including the second box? I believe they are a pretty deep thinking mans team. They can drop the hammer on folks when needed but a lot of the time you are positioning to deny your opponent what you can and position for the goal. 

Allow and Hearth are clutch and anchor the squad. Hearth can eat up the center of a table and giving reach on a stick, ferrite loves her, is amazing. Ive often used her as my Captain with no regrets. Alloy is a monster. He can score form just about anywhere, has some damage output, and even when a goal isn't on the board a jog, plus a dirty knives, into a back to the shadows is a pretty strong reposition. 

Ferrite and Iron are great as well. Iron threatens the goal and will remove models when given half the chance. The 'get over here' can be amazing as well once he gets stuck in. Battering ram to bump your team up on turn one is a great way to start. Ferrite is still the go to captain for me as she is a capable threat, her legendary speed buff is tremendous at times, and if she wants to take a player away from you she can... disarm plus a crowd out is ball busting on a two armor character.

Furnace is stalwart. He is a finisher is an apt descriptor,  in that he can put a reliable amount of damage on the board but he can also legendary and sit happily in snap shot range or just go in for a late goal kick himself. Adding to that the burning condition and searing strike... he is just good! 

The last spot for me right now is flex... I like both Cinder and Cast here. Cinder can help with the ranged MOM generation or the opportune ranged tackle. I also quite like killing the ball when receiving and they manage something too wide to pass back in. Cast is cool here as well bc Furnace can def set her up with Searing strike and even a knockdown. She can activate after or even better he goes last one turn and she goes first the next. She absolutely can CRANK the damage. Also knocking that ball loose is pretty cool sometimes.

That the team I have the most games with at the moment. I haven't used Farris or Bolt to any great effect and though I see some use for Anvil and Sledge in a Burnish team Ive not quite explored that just yet. I will say that there is a place for Burnish. Certainly he and Cast absolutely wreck face into the mirror and I would bet that would also apply to Brewers and potentially masons as well given similarly poor Def stats. His legendary is essentially a 'no you will not use character plays on us this turn' which could also ruin some days.... its makes Ferrite very very sad for instance.

Anyway just some more of my pennies...

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I love that Blacksmiths are a puzzlebox team with a huge toolbox. They are perhaps not as ball busting as Hunters in the brain box department but they can cause you and your opponent plenty of grief. I love the weird synergy modules they bring - thinking about a team of couples rather than individuals.

I’m  finding them a lot of fun. I’m not sure they are top tier - the apprentices are too squishy and the advent of super-useful mascots makes them a bit of a liability in comparison (Sledge you tool). But they are lots of fun and I think they can kick it with many of the top teams. Just avoid conditions like the plague because Burnish doesn’t fix them. 

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Totally agree with @UTasteSoSo Blacksmiths are a team full of proper jank tank, with a lot of interweaving rules you need to keep on top of to play them "properly". Remembering all of your Tuteleages? (That's spelt wrong), legendary plays as well as the interactions / auras a lot of the masters have BS have a huge amount of depth.

I think in a few months when someone has really mastered the second box and the team as a whole (Drafting with blacksmiths is another sort of mystery) we will see then doing better in events, as it stands people are still working the puzzle out. 

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I did say all guilds are thinky as well though.

But I know this likely a just me/VERY small group thing but I "struggled" with Hunters, in timed tournaments felt like I did a year of university in a hour and half. It was exhausting and "not rewarding" as I either got close games, easy wins against newer end scale players or down right thrashings from folk of equal skill and obviosuly better (based on how I can handle those players now I would say I am there or there abouts as capable as them). Still like the guild and can see what they can do but I couldn't achieve it.

Then just as I was going to temporarily shelve them to use guilds not quite as hard to sharpen up my GB skills, Smiths were announced and I was like "SOLD" knowing nothing about them. Not cause they were new, but I like the concept of Blacksmithing in fantasy settings. So getting them, are they thinky? of course they are, protect the apprentices but use them, set up a model, how much? when? and so on. But I seem to be able to handle that better than Hunters.

Hunters need to make a plan and MAKE SURE IT WORKS. Blacksmiths I feel are just a bit more capable of making a plan and being able to adapt if said plan fails.

But that's just me. Having now used the Smiths quite a bit (not as longs as hunters obviously) I do like the idea going back and seeing if I'm any better working out the complex puzzle that is Hunters.

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I don't feel like Hunters are that punishing post Theron & oHearne errata. Honestly any team with Theron, Fahad, oHearne, Jaecar & Minx on is a fantastic team, those  players are all excellent in a vacuum and make a very well rounded team. You can slot in Zarola, Chaska, Egret, Ulfr, Seenah in the end as you see fit. The flexibility the team has with two blessings, 2 furios players as well as decent ranged presence is very good. It has a ton of reach (Zarola extends this further) and has the tools to handle most teams to a degree. 

Skatha could do with allowing her to Blessing her self, but she's great and does a lot for the team (also gives a good use for the plot card Composure :D). 

Hunters are in a really nice place right now, even though I think Seenah, Zarola and Chaska aren't star players that totally have roles in the game and the more I get them on the pitch the more I see there value. vHearne is the last player in the roster I think needs a change now oHearne is SO efficient.

Anywaaaay, the topic is getting de-railed quite a lot. In my 10 BS I'd leave Anvil & Sledge at home. 

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