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DeathlyDrew

Morts vs. Blacksmiths

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How do we beat them? Given tonight I missed five kicks, four with Bonesaw and a Dirge Assisted Silence and a goal kick with Obs, but on top of that what is the team you would take into Smiths?

I think Casket is a must with Heavy Burden and Ghastly Visage.

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Hi ,

. Scalpel should be good for obvious resaon vs high armoured players

. Silence would disturb blacksmith orders ("Iron you play first "?)

. Dirge

. Tooled up Graves

. For the 2 remaining players , I like the idea of Bonesaw and Casket even if I have yet to use the latter and I just have 2 games with Bonesaw under the belt.

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Casket is a problem. The high armor presents a little problem for him. I'd say his Character Plays are highly efficient though, just as Silence is. Tucked on iron, Shutout on whoever wants to buff or the potential ball carrier. 

Scalpel is good, yes. Especiall because of tormented agony. Blacksmiths are highly dependant on correct influence allocation, but Puppetmaster into the Blacksmiths is so easy it should be illegal. Just hope they don't take Burnish xD

Another good thing is Confidence. Lets talk Bonesaw and confidence and a charge into Anvil. You definitely want the wrap, and even with confidence its highly problematic. But eh, you still might get Unexpected arrival off, which also f*cks them up.

Also Cosset, even if it is just for Lure. Lure is awesome. I love it. 

You might want to think about Ghast. More playing around with your enemies influence. Go in with Scalpel on someone who is engaged by Ghast and reduce them to 1 Influence. badumm-ts

 

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I don't think killing them is a reliable option. A casket time maybe, but my friend and I did an attack with Thresher on just Iron 2/2 and even if you wrap his play book every time you still can't kill Iron in one turn 1v1. Ferrite, Cinder and Sledge are killable, but it's hard to get at them going thorough Anvil, Iron and Furnace. I don't think the anatomical precision on scalpel is worth it in most cases with them, and I think her 1in reach is going to be an issue with no UM. I think Obs is the captain to take, but maybe Vileswarm is a better mascot because they do have to think about killing him or not, plus rabid animal will mess with their range. I'm thinking wherever we can use character plays vs. damage is better.

 

I used Ghast, and he just tore through him no problem. So I don't think Ghast is the answer to them.

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You can always pick off apprentices. 12-14 Health players without no tough hide and at 3/1 or 4/1 is just one decent Cosset charge with Confidence and a little set up. I'd say 2/2 is the most reliable way to go, as apprentices are also food for a tooled up Obulus etc. 

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1 hour ago, ForestRambo said:

You can always pick off apprentices. 12-14 Health players without no tough hide and at 3/1 or 4/1 is just one decent Cosset charge with Confidence and a little set up. I'd say 2/2 is the most reliable way to go, as apprentices are also food for a tooled up Obulus etc. 

What players would you take as scorers ?

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4 minutes ago, Leader9-1 said:

What players would you take as scorers ?

The combination of Bonesaw/Silence/BPM is quiet strong. Bonesaw (much easier with Ghost Shit) can easily score a goal from over 10". There lies the question though. Scalpel could support goalscorers just as Obulus can, but Scalpel is actually really capable at killing the apprentices. Tool her up and they are gone in no time. Maybe shut them out, use Tormented Agony to get some Inf off of the Captain onto the apprentice and lynch that apprentice to get rid of an activation with 3 to 4 Influence on it.

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Both movement and INF shenanigans seem great against the blacksmiths, luckily we have both in spades. Isolate players as best you can. 

Scalpel can go after both Masters and Apprentices. A lot of their players also struggle to catch her is she goes in weakens up then second winds to safety, if you play it right she should be 10" away  after push dodges and second wind which often wastes resources to chase after. As mentioned above Tormented Agony is amazing. 

Obulous is decent for the reasons he normally is. Misdirection is probably handier than normal due to the number of 3 cap players. Needs to be careful of the ranged KD. 

I like Vileswarm generally for INF efficiency (all the players are human),  nice pushes to break up Master/Apprentices and a crippling rabid animal. Often not really worth killing for the 3 dmg and poison. 

Graves 1 is as always a great toolbox, can't remember the last time I didn't him. 

Ghast is a pest for a 12 INF team with not that many easy ways to get around fear beyond Farris. 

Casket is always good, heavy burden is easy to hit. They don't seem to be swimming in momentum so rough ground isn't bad to have around. 

Cosset is very fragile but outpaces most of the things that really threaten her. 

Silence is handy for the for activation order but I wouldn't say a necessity. 

Bonesaw is OK. Handy for a goal scorer but I'd say Mist is as usual better. Unexpected arrival if you can trigger it is better than usual. 

I don't like Brainpan in this match up. Plenty of kd and 3 dmg to ruin the puppets plans. 

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3 hours ago, Cole said:

 Bonesaw (much easier with Ghost Shit) 

I never thought of such a fitting nickname for ol' Bonesaw.

 

Having played a fair number of BS games, I would have thought Morts are one of their worst matchups. They are quite streamlined in what they want to do, so anything that stops them doing their thing is high value. Just remember they are very vulnerable to character plays and the Masters are mostly unkillable.

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5 hours ago, ForestRambo said:

You can always pick off apprentices. 12-14 Health players without no tough hide and at 3/1 or 4/1 is just one decent Cosset charge with Confidence and a little set up. I'd say 2/2 is the most reliable way to go, as apprentices are also food for a tooled up Obulus etc. 

You'd think yes, but Cinder has Unpredictable movement, and Iron is a lot tough that you'd think. Ferrite and Sledge are the two weakest. I agree Brianpan and Memory are not a good fit here, they could just take him out constantly and get the Momentum. It think Cosset would be fine for a perfect take out, but I am not sure if she would survive after that one time and it would be highly risky.I think another addition could be OG Graves and Scything blow

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2 hours ago, JS said:

never thought of such a fitting nickname for ol' Bonesaw

Whops!

I think BPM are pretty good to be used for Ball Shenanigans in combination with Bonesaw. They are not supposed to kill any of the bunch, they are pretty good at passing around though. 

I also had a revelation. As Cosset is not exactly necessary to deal damage, we can actually use Vileswarm. He's influence efficient and can harass way better than Dirge. 3 damage and poison is quiet a word. They either get rid of him or are permanently engaged by him. I'm just a bit worried about all the pushed Black Smiths provide. They could possibly easily push him into our own lines and then make him explode. I lost three games that way. Because of my own Mascot. 

Question is, who would I take instead of BPM?

So I think about

Scalpel/Obulus
Vileswarm
oG
Bonesaw
Silence
and then? Our Playbooks have one advantage: They are divided into three categories. First two columsn are usually "I'm on my own" results, about two after that it's "We are stronger in a group" and the last few columns are basically part of the second category during a charge or when you already have the superior position. The difference between our Playbooks and the ones of other guilds is, that other players usually rise in the effectiveness of their attacks, while Morts Players change their functionality on the Pitch. We should try to play in our favor and concentrate on the first few columns to be effective. Even vetGraves could be useful because he has a momentous push on 1 success. With a 2" melee range that is still quiet useful. Cossett can become quiet the goalscorer. Again due to Ghost Shot.

I guess Casket then to ensure some momentum with heavy burden and a bit of Ghostly visage.

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What I think is that we can't outfight Smiths. Their "easy targets" are as tough as our standard players, it simply doesn't work. My gameplan is probably 2 goals and casket time. I'll take Obs for his sneaky goal threat thanks to PM. oGraves is his best buddy so his always in. Dirge is a no-brainer for me, I don't even take second mascot in my ten. We need a striker so Mist when kicking or Bonesaw when receiving. Add Casket to put Ferrite in the box after she scores (unless Knee Slider happens, this card is plain stupid). That leaves us with 1 slot open. Options for me are Silence, Cosset or Skulk. Each one of them has their advantages but I'd give Skulk a go. He's kind of swiss army knife, like Graves1. Teams up with him and Ferryman very well. Yet I think Smiths have just too many tools in their kit and should be toned down.

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7 hours ago, el009 said:

What I think is that we can't outfight Smiths. Their "easy targets" are as tough as our standard players, it simply doesn't work. My gameplan is probably 2 goals and casket time. I'll take Obs for his sneaky goal threat thanks to PM. oGraves is his best buddy so his always in. Dirge is a no-brainer for me, I don't even take second mascot in my ten. We need a striker so Mist when kicking or Bonesaw when receiving. Add Casket to put Ferrite in the box after she scores (unless Knee Slider happens, this card is plain stupid). That leaves us with 1 slot open. Options for me are Silence, Cosset or Skulk. Each one of them has their advantages but I'd give Skulk a go. He's kind of swiss army knife, like Graves1. Teams up with him and Ferryman very well. Yet I think Smiths have just too many tools in their kit and should be toned down.

A reminder, once the Rats are out no more mist. I've been starting to get away from using any Union because I know they will be gone soon. And this could be another thing. Right now we may not be stocked to take them on super well, but Pelage and VetHemlocke may provide some help. I don't think Skulk does much for us against Smiths. I agree we can't kill them, so we have to outscore them, but I don't know if that is easily done either. Ferrite and Cinder and great goal scorers. I scored turn one with Cinder no problem. So we need to mess with their movement which is why I think Casket is a must with Heavy Burden and Ghastly Visage. To prevent them from possibly getting a charge off and being -6 at 3in out (the foul odour rough ground+Ghastly Visage)I think is the best control move we have against them.

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22 hours ago, Leader9-1 said:

What players would you take as scorers ?

Sorry totally missed this question, as it stands I've found Mist & B&M paired with Obulus or Scalpel are all the scorers you need. 

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2 hours ago, DeathlyDrew said:

A reminder, once the Rats are out no more mist. 

For now Skulk is just a Mortician. As soon as Ratcatchers are out I expect Bonesaw and vGraves to get some love from SFG and we'll also have access to Pelage - that's 3 "new" players that can change meta entirely. Not even mentioning vHemlocke. For now I'm not going to think about the future of the guild but play with what we have.

Skulk can make Ferrites life harder and he doesn't die easily for a Spook. Sounds good enough to me ;) If I were receiving vs Smiths I'd go for first turn goal with Bonesaw, prepared for the Casket time after they score, whoever comes close and then tried to finish the game with another goal. Either with Bonesaw or Obulus but Graves can also be a semi-striker.

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2 minutes ago, Cole said:

Who?

 

The other ratcatcher/mortician dual guild player, revealed at SCUK (but not out til the rest of the ratcatchers are of course)

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4 minutes ago, Mako said:

The other ratcatcher/mortician dual guild player, revealed at SCUK (but not out til the rest of the ratcatchers are of course)

When you say revealed, do you mean revealed in the sense of "Rules revealed but not to public" or just the name?

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Everything we know is public - but that’s not a lot :)

The keynote speech covered the ratcatchers and morticians dual guild players, and we learned the names (and art) of three of the ratcatchers. Skulk (obviously), Scourge (a big disease ridden guy) and pelage (tall lady, said to be “charitably described as a lady of the night” and the closest thing the game was getting to that kind of woman). Scourge is rat only, the others are the dual guild morticians. 

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#dirtyknives

 

Regarding the OP - Blacksmiths hate being repositioned and frequently have quite programmed order of activation requirements. Screwing with that doesn't turn them off completely but if you can mitigate a lot of the text on the back of their cards then you're at least going a long way towards impacting their game plan (if not implementing your own).

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I think the thing to remember about Blacksmiths is that they really built to score goals.  They are tanky (high ARM)  and look like they want to get into melee, but when you start looking at what they do well, it is score goals.   They are also limited on influence, so they cannot do everything they want to.  With that in mind, anything that Morticians can do to mess up their activations will hamper what they want to do on the pitch.

With that said, I think the Obulus-Silence combo can work really well into them.  Cosset with Lure & Screaming Banshee can work well as a set up piece.  Scalpel is an interesting choice, as she ignores 1 ARM, and if she hits a target that Cosset has already hit with Screaming Banshee, she can farm momentum off of them.  Minx is another model to look at, as she can hit them with Snared and/or Screaming Banshee and then walk away, setting up a number of follow up combinations.  

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Gonna share some of my limited experience here, just to add some agreement to points mentioned earlier here. I think BP+M is quite limited in this match up even though I generally always use them. If you have something specific in mind for them I´m sure they work, but the general "We´re hovering around and being annoying, maybe do some damage and take an opportunistic goal" sense hasn´t really worked for me yet. I think Silence or some other player might do a better job as multiple people have already suggested.

Casket is just a beast in this match up. His ability to mess with the blacksmiths movement is just awesome, and really ruins their day. Heavy burden on Bolt is just cruel. He does have limitations, most often in the form of low tac vs high armor, but I think that goes for pretty much any of our players. I think he is especially great at protecting Obulus, for instance keeping the aformentioned Bolt from being able to reposition easily into a free Shoomerang onto Obulus while he holds the ball. Not only does the movement debuff help in keeping him out of range, Heavy Burden also makes character plays harder to hit.

Speaking of Obulus, Ferrite must be one of the best targets for Puppet Master ever conceived. 4/8 kick on a def 3 model is about as good as you can hope for, and most of the other people in the guild have surprisingly good kick stats while having generally low defense. This makes hiding the ball hard, which is why my intuition is that while Scalpel can certainly strip the armor off and do some good damage, going for the 2 goal + casket time on an apprentice of your choosing seems to be strong. That said, Scalpel´s access to >< is great versus all the positioning elements that the blacksmiths try to keep in place. Being able to negate the armour most of the apprentices get for being near a master, while also benefitting from Anatomical precision is ace. However the constant threat of Obulus makes it harder for the blacksmiths to score, which seems to be their gameplan more often than not. Leaving the ball on any of the players while Obulus still hasn´t activated always feels like an opportunity for me. I´m sure it´s a contributing factor that makes the game tougher for the opponent, especially if you consider the clock in a tournament environment.

I think my ideal lineup would be Obulus, Dirge, Casket, Silence, Graves 1 and Cosset. If I were to not take Cosset I could theoretically consider Vileswarm, (if I´d bothered to paint him :D) so I have no experience in that area. If I had access to Mist he would probably replace Silence (or Cosset), so that Obulus wouldn´t have to do everything himself. I´ve experimented with Bonesaw, but even if he scores turn 1, I´m never happy with the play, as it feels so risky every time and takes a lot of attention to do. Might just be my limited experience talking, but I´d rather go for the "Get the ball on Obulus, score turn 1 or farm momentum to hopefully score turn 2" if I receive anyway.

Keep in mind that I´ve only played a few games versus them and most of this is theorycrafting, but it seems consistent with what I´ve seen so far and what seems to be the general experience of other players. Adding farmers to the mix, I think we have a good chance in the current meta. :) If people have been having success using BP+M versus Blacksmiths I´d love to hear the feedback, love those guys!

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