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Petraites

What about Bolt?

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A few days ago, Bolt's card was revealed. And nobody has spoken about him. So I want to discuss some of his benefits.

I think he's one of the best apprentices Blacksmiths have at their disposal right now: his double movement (that synergizes so well with Farris' Quick Foot), his fantastic Character Plays (one of them assures an auto-knocked down to an enemy), the possibility of make them free if he's close to Farris, his good atributes (good DEF and ARM, good KICK stats) and a fair Playbook.

You have to be aware of Shoemerang doesn't need to choose an enemy model to target. That's very powerful. You can choose a friendly model and inflict him 2 DMG, then choose an enemy model and apply him the knocked-down condition. Even if you need it, you can choose Bolt as a target. So, beware DEF 6+ Velocities and company, Bolt is arriving, XD!!

He's a versatile player, that can work well without INF or load him with 3 to make a goal run. If he starts its activation near Farris, he can move, use his Shoemerang on an enemy and return to the safety with his second move, without paying any INF. Simply marvelous.

His higher weaknesses are his low HP (as all apprentices have) and his "overdependence" of Farris (without her, Bolt loses a lot of power).

What do you think about Bolt?

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9 hours ago, Petraites said:

You have to be aware of Shoemerang doesn't need to choose an enemy model to target. That's very powerful. You can choose a friendly model and inflict him 2 DMG

Gaven't realised this. Needed the KD on an engaged Minx, for going into tap-in range. Instead I have thrown it with 1 die at a KD Theron, which missed and then the 4 (Bonus Time) dice Goal Shot while Minx engaging me failed... This was my last Chance for a comeback.

In another game vs Pin Vice he went mad. The enemy thought that I'm far off the goal. So 3 Inf Bolt: Walk 4", think effectively 2" towards the goal. The rest was needed for coming to Hearth. 1 Ing pass = 4" Dodge for Him and Alloy, Tutelage I'm open 4" Dodge for Bolt and Alloy. Sprint 6" and a goal range of 6" = GOAL!!!!

So I'm really happy with him. He can do a lot of things and can easily adapt to the field situation. As with other apprentices I tend to give him to much Inf or two less. Once in a while I though that I need the 2 Inf he had for a Character Play but also the sprint. Other times he has 3 Inf and tutelage. But he couldn't engage someone and only use 1 Character play...

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He is very good,  i need more games with him and farris though.  shoomerang and the insane dodge threat is great.  He makes a nice way to get around counter charge to goal

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12 hours ago, Riozaki said:

He is very good,  i need more games with him and farris though.  shoomerang and the insane dodge threat is great.  He makes a nice way to get around counter charge to goal

 What do you mean by insane dodge threat?

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7 minutes ago, TheRaven said:

 What do you mean by insane dodge threat?

I'm Open Dodges with his Double MOV Is super good.

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1 minute ago, Kueller said:

I'm Open Dodges with his Double MOV Is super good.

 I'm open works, but his double move is a bit finicky. It's a regular Jog not a dodge the length of his jog movement like we're used to seeing, wouldn't it therefore trigger things like countercharge? Also the second job has to happen at the start of his activation, so it always has to happen before i'm open. I can see it sometimes being frustrating having to make sure you don't job out of I'm open range. 

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I have used It, It worked well then. The Jog at the beginning wouldn't be your Advance so wouldn't trigger Counter Charge. 

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 Was something chanced from a rules clarification from last year?

May 28 2016:

Advance:

Jog, sprint or charge are advances, any other type of movement of a model is a Reposition.  Dodges and Pushes are Repositions.

 

 Since it's a jog, why would it not be considered an advance?

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3 minutes ago, Kueller said:

I have used It, It worked well then. The Jog at the beginning wouldn't be your Advance so wouldn't trigger Counter Charge. 

Any time a model is sprinting, jogging, or charging, it is Advancing and thus triggers Counter Charge

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3 minutes ago, CaptCommy said:

Any time a model is sprinting, jogging, or charging, it is Advancing and thus tgot riggers Counter Charge

Have you got a Ruling or a passage from the Rulebook for that?

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1 minute ago, Kueller said:

Have you got a Ruling or a passage from the Rulebook for that?

Well, there's the collected clarification above, for starters. In the S3 rulebook, pg 22 lists the three types of Advance under the Advancing header. I believe you're confusing the Standard-Advance on pg 23 (your once per turn movement) with the general term Advance. 

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2 minutes ago, Kueller said:

Have you got a Ruling or a passage from the Rulebook for that?

I got that from the wiki. But here is the official Rules Thread

The movement section says:

Actions
Movement (pg 22-24)
There are two types of movement - Advances and Repositions. Placement is not a Movement.
 
Movement:- A controlling player may not voluntarily move or place a friendly model off the pitch (even when affected by plays such as Lure and Puppet Master).
 
Advances:- All Jog, Sprint and Charges are Advances.

 

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1 minute ago, TheRaven said:

I got that from the wiki. But here is the official Rules Thread

The movement section says:

Actions
Movement (pg 22-24)
There are two types of movement - Advances and Repositions. Placement is not a Movement.
 
Movement:- A controlling player may not voluntarily move or place a friendly model off the pitch (even when affected by plays such as Lure and Puppet Master).
 
Advances:- All Jog, Sprint and Charges are Advances.

 

Yeah might be getting Confused

But as I see It Stamina doesn't end your Advance to Trigger Counter Charge? 

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Just now, Kueller said:

Yeah might be getting Confused

But as I see It Stamina doesn't end your Advance to Trigger Counter Charge? 

Ending an Advance is wording that triggers at the end of any Advance. So if you make an Advance, once you've placed your model and committed to that final location, you check for anything that triggers on the end of an Advance, such as Counter Charge or Shadowlike. 

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1 minute ago, Kueller said:

Yeah might be getting Confused

But as I see It Stamina doesn't end your Advance to Trigger Counter Charge? 

 Counter charge is "An Advance", don't see why counter charge wouldn't trigger?

 You seem to be hung up on the idea of "Advance as a phase" not "Advance as an Action". Counter charge doesn't read "Whenever a model end's it's Advance Phase" it's "An Advance". Since jog is an Advance, and after that advance they are in countercharge range (Or parting blow or any other rule) it seems it would trigger. 

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Just now, CaptCommy said:

Ending an Advance is wording that triggers at the end of any Advance. So if you make an Advance, once you've placed your model and committed to that final location, you check for anything that triggers on the end of an Advance, such as Counter Charge or Shadowlike. 

Okay fair enough. Cheers 

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If Bolt begins its turn engaged by an enemy, he can use his Stamina Jog to relocate himself around the enemy without leaving the enemy melee zone. It's not a straight movement, but you can gain some distance towards your next target. Then, if Tutelage is available, he can Shoemerang himself to knocked-down the engaging enemy or use I'm Open! to dodge 4". Also, he can leave the engaging enemy melee zone with his first Jog (wherever you want to leave), suffer the Parting Blow and, if Knock-Down, use MP to remove it and then make the Standard-Jog. Plenty of options here.

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13 hours ago, Petraites said:

 Also, he can leave the engaging enemy melee zone with his first Jog (wherever you want to leave), suffer the Parting Blow and, if Knock-Down, use MP to remove it and then make the Standard-Jog. Plenty of options here.

Wouldn't he just suffer another parting blow if he did that? I guess getting two tries to disengage is better than getting just one, but it's still not an ideal way of getting out of an engagement.

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4 minutes ago, Sid said:

@Myyrä Parting blow is taken when the model leaves the opponent's engagement zone, so you are literally disengaged at that point.

Parting blow says it's an Attack, and Attack's can only be taken against engaged models. The wording "at the point the active model leaves the melee zone or LOS of the enemy model" can just as well mean just barely withing melee zone or just barely outside. (It's actually mathematically impossible to place the model outside the melee range so that it is as close to the melee range as possible.)

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From the Collected Clarifications:

Parting Blow (pg 36)
Reposition:- a model may not reposition or place during the resolution of a parting blow.
Occurs any time a model Advances out of a melee range, even if you entered it during the same movement action.
Does not apply to Repositions (Dodge, Push).
The model is hit after leaving range, so is not engaged with the model hitting the Advancing model after the blow (e.g. if KD).
Ganging Up/Crowding Out do not apply.

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@Sid Yeah, you are right. Was just about to edit my response after checking the rules clarifications. Apparently lawyers don't really care about mathematics. Or maybe they have taken into account that the game is played in a physical universe, where there actually sort of would be a unambigious point where the model is just outside the melee range.

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Just now, Myyrä said:

@Sid Yeah, you are right. Was just about to edit my response after checking the rules clarifications. Apparently lawyers don't really care about mathematics. Or maybe they have taken into account that the game is played in a physical universe, where there actually sort of would be a unambigious point where the model is just outside the melee range.

Let’s assume they thought it through, rather than just blithely insulting the lawyers ;)

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4 hours ago, Mako said:

Let’s assume they thought it through, rather than just blithely insulting the lawyers ;)

Oh, I didn't mean to insult anyone. I was just implying that they might not consider mathematics the highest priority, as they shouldn't. Their first concern should be what works well in the game.

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5 hours ago, Myyrä said:

Oh, I didn't mean to insult anyone. I was just implying that they might not consider mathematics the highest priority, as they shouldn't. Their first concern should be what works well in the game.

Bolt is the ONE model that breaks this mold. Assuming the rule doesn't work as intended because one model makes it sound, to you, as though he breaks the rule is, and I don't mean to insult anyone here either, a bit shortsighted.

The Parting Blows rule works just fine. Bolt works just fine. He has his strengths and weaknesses. Being able to run away from engaging models even after suffering a KD on the parting blow is one of his strenghts. Other people models can deal with this problem just as well if not better (Where'd They Go? is a very efficient way to do so).

 

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