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dwhite87

How to fight Ox with Corsair?

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Hi, I recently played a game (as the Ox player) vs a relatively new player who dropped Corsair. We are both getting ready for SteamCon.

My butchers chewed up Corsair easy and afterwards I wasn't able to provide any helpful tactical advice because I don't play Corsair. Public opinion is that Shark is the preferable drop into Butchers, but I'd like him to know how to play Corsair into fighting teams because I don't believe there is ever a situation where Corsair shouldn't have a fair chance of winning. 

Our lists were:
Ox, Princess, Boiler, Tenderizer, Brisket and Shank

Corsair, Tentacles, Kraken, Greyscales, Siren and Hag

If you were playing that exact Corsair lineup (and receiving), what tactics would you take with these models to win? Would you go for the 4-2 or the 3-0? Would you feed Corsair max influence each turn or spread it around? 


As an Ox opponent I am basically just running all my models as a swarm straight at him so any tactics to counter my death ball are appreciated! 
 

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My recommendation would be to play ball control style game on one of the flanks. It keeps Butchers from coming at you from all directions. Butchers aren't great at pushing, while Fish can be (in this list you also have Lure, assuming Siren1). They are also relatively squishy and vulnerable to counters so Corsair can kill a couple and then get a goal or two. 

I think as long as you get a goal in there you are ok with any combination to TOs and goals. You give Corsair close to max INF if he can reliably activate early each turn (this is how one plays Guild Ball, after all).

If you can, watch the Pat Van Value vs Martin Koch game from the WTC (Tapper Brewers vs Corsair Fish). It should be on the SFG Youtube channel sometime in the year 2023 - if you can't wait that long, try Twitch vods.

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@ForestRambo whilst true... this doesn't help the poor chap with his question ;)

4 hours ago, dwhite87 said:

Hi, I recently played a game (as the Ox player) vs a relatively new player who dropped Corsair. We are both getting ready for SteamCon.

My butchers chewed up Corsair easy and afterwards I wasn't able to provide any helpful tactical advice because I don't play Corsair. Public opinion is that Shark is the preferable drop into Butchers, but I'd like him to know how to play Corsair into fighting teams because I don't believe there is ever a situation where Corsair shouldn't have a fair chance of winning. 

Our lists were:
Ox, Princess, Boiler, Tenderizer, Brisket and Shank

Corsair, Tentacles, Kraken, Greyscales, Siren and Hag

If you were playing that exact Corsair lineup (and receiving), what tactics would you take with these models to win? Would you go for the 4-2 or the 3-0? Would you feed Corsair max influence each turn or spread it around? 


As an Ox opponent I am basically just running all my models as a swarm straight at him so any tactics to counter my death ball are appreciated! 
 

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Don't think that Corsair list is gonna do it against Ox. If we stick with Corsair (Shark is definitely the better option into Butchers), Kraken needs to go. 3/0 Tough Hide can take against some teams, but not Butchers. If Fish receive, I'd put Angel in. Her goal threat is insane even if it's predictable and Corsair can give her some protection if the Butcher player tries to disrupt it. She gets even more dangerous under Corsair's legendary, which should let her kick through Tenderizer. Also, Ox and Shank are pretty easy models to hit, so her momentous Push/Dodge on Two is much more reliable than normal, especially if she can get a charge off. If Butchers receive, put in Sakana. He's essentially Baby Shark with crazy move speed, good ball recovery, and tons of momentum. He can dodge off of people into goal range or even run into engagement with Tenderizer. And with Anatomical Precision, even Brisket isn't a safe bet to hold the ball against him. In all honesty, Sakana can also be the pick when receiving if Angel isn't going to fit into the list or he wants to focus on a core 6 or 7 players to get more comfortable.

I'd also swap out Tentacles for Salt. Ox in particular feels like he can just ignore Blind. If you throw it on Ox, he just shrugs, throws Butchery on Corsair and then stands close enough to give The Owner while Boiler comes in for some work. If you throw it on Boiler, Ox can go in and do the work himself. Meanwhile, Salt has Loved Creature, which means that if he's positioned right, the Butchers won't really want to hit him (especially not against Corsair). And Salt threatens a goal much more than Tentacles. Close Control also really isn't a big deal against Butchers because if you decide to sit the ball on Tentacles, they'll just kill everything while you do nothing.

My approach would be to set up Angel/Sakana, Greyscales, and Salt to be threatening the ball all game. Try and force the Butchers to choose between defending goals and killing players. Siren can more less mirror Brisket so that she can Seduce the ball off of her if the Butchers try to kill it that way. Then use Hag to set Corsair up to drag in players like Ox or Shank for momentum and a take out. This is dangerous of course, and can potentially help the Butchers death ball if done badly. But every player in that Ox list except for Brisket is pretty damn squishy. Get them on the ground and out of position and Corsair should be able to kill any of them over a couple of rounds while Hag keeps the Butchers from swarming him.

Ultimately, 2/2 is Corsair's best bet into Butchers. Pick your engagements while forcing the Butchers to play a reactionary game regarding the ball.

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After getting leathered by butchers AGAIN recently, but really thinking about it afterwards, any Ox list with Boiler and Princess needs to be bunched up to benefit from all the nonsense Ox can throw out. Just spit balling but use Corsair and Kraken to split them up with drags and pulls then hope for KDs and get swatting at them. Hag could use her pushes to break up their synergy. 

I'd probably go for Ox or Boiler first. Avoid hitting the dog. Push for goals. 

I've never won against Butchers, I think they can just do too much. They can churn out MOM, are incredibly Inf efficient, can murder anyone in a turn, throw out conditions, can threaten the goal, AND they have a keeper...   /salt 

I'll try my own advice next time I play them :rolleyes: :lol:

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Corsair out threats the Butchers, be sure to hang back outside their 9" threat ranges, then the only ones reaching you are fillet, shank, or someone quick time/quick footed. If they move to within 6" of Corsair when trying to get in range, drag them knock them down, then generate momentum and damage off them. Meanwhile the rest of the team should be looking for goals, again staying outside of the butchers near universal 9" threat as much as possible. 

Corsair, Mascot, Greyscales, oSiren, Hag, flex slot (Sakana/Jac/Kraken/Gutter.)

Greyscales has the benefit of being able to ignore a single player getting close unless he is in danger of being attacked from base to base by one of their 2" melee. Siren is one of the only reliable ways to get the ball from oBrisket. Hag is just great for Corsair and requires no INF.

For your flex slot you take Sakana if you need more goal threats, Jac if you want to be able to play near the edges effectively, which let's you punish the butcher with a push out if they go near your players or push Ox's aura away, Kraken for more KD/drag and slight damage help for Corsair, Gutter for big damage help for Corsair and slight drag help. 

The biggest thing is just not to blindly March forward into the butchers, make them come to you where you have the advantage.

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Yeah, pre-errata I considered ox - and hell, maybe even fillet - to be one of Corsair's favorable matchups. If you got a sticky enough scrum going and they'd struggle to really output enough damage between your crowd-outs, tough hides, and consistent knock-downs.

Since the errata I'm not as sure, though that's less because of changes to Ox than it's because of changes to VSiren

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