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elmo

Make Brewers better

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Looking into rankings looks like brewers are the weakest guild.

I' m playing them and think that almost every one  is very solid player (maybe Stave has problems :) ) but something  not working properly . GIC I think are good way but I was thinking about what could be done with brewers players to make them better.

1. Stave :) - maybe goal keeper or sturdy or hale and hearthy or 2" melee

2. Friday:  Make her push in playbook to be dodge (easier goal scoring)

3. Quaff - have no idea but something that will make him better ...maybe Goad... (now I always take scum)

4 ......

5.....

6...

7..

8.

.

What do you think about it?

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So here's the thing about Brewers, after me being a bit critical on them last week I decided to take a look at their cards rather than just shout how bad they are. 

They're really NOT that bad, in fact they have one of the bigger toolboxes of any guild due to their heroics. There is a lot of good stuff inside the Brewers, it would just take some time to really develop the knowledge of the team make the most of them. I think there is some neat things you can do turn one with them and I think Esters is really untapped. 

I think for Brewers who are making looking to "get good" or push your Brewer win rate higher it might be more prudent to stress the guild in a efficient way. Smash out 50-100 games and make solid notes on each game. I lost this game because I made mistake X/Y/Z, I didn't realise rule X/Y/Z etc. 

I don't think Brewers are as bad as the internet makes out and I think the echo chamber effect for Brewers is in full affect. It only takes one player to break that mould. 

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Hale and hearthy is all Stave needs IMO. Other than that the guild is solid. The Brewer Players are probably a bit less competetive than in other guilds, as it's a common guild for people starting to learn the game. Also, drinking beers might be a bit less common on higher tables at tournaments ;)


EDIT: Quaff isn't bad, second wind is a sweet character play, Scum is just better :P and almost no teams brings two mascots to a tournament.

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Tbh, Stave is the poster child for Matt design philosophy for putting an ability with outstanding potential on a model with an easily exploitable weakness.. 

For all he will never make my tournament roster, I do think the addition of Farmers and Blacksmiths has increased his viability.. By that I mean both new teams have low defensive stats and team synergies which require players to be stood within a certain range of each other..

That being said, I do think he requires something to bring him more in line with other players, "Hale and Hearthy" or "Glutinous Mass" at the cost of a few health points should do it..

Other than that, the guild is fine.. I'm looking forward to the new vDescimate card later in the year and whatever our minor guild does when they arrive..

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19 hours ago, elmo said:

Looking into rankings looks like brewers are the weakest guild.

I' m playing them and think that almost every one  is very solid player (maybe Stave has problems :) ) but something  not working properly . GIC I think are good way but I was thinking about what could be done with brewers players to make them better.

1. Stave :) - maybe goal keeper or sturdy or hale and hearthy or 2" melee

2. Friday:  Make her push in playbook to be dodge (easier goal scoring)

3. Quaff - have no idea but something that will make him better ...maybe Goad... (now I always take scum)

4 ......

5.....

6...

7..

8.

.

What do you think about it?

 

19 hours ago, ForestRambo said:

They're really NOT that bad, in fact they have one of the bigger toolboxes of any guild due to their heroics. There is a lot of good stuff inside the Brewers, it would just take some time to really develop the knowledge of the team make the most of them. I think there is some neat things you can do turn one with them and I think Esters is really untapped. 

  I feel the same way until I put them on the table and remember why I took them off.  It's order of activation issues and their desperate need for momentum for heroics.  If your first activation in a turn can solve a problem (E.G., Score a goal or finish a TO), AND get you momentum enough for a heroic you need, you might be ok.  But it's constantly problems like being out of range, so you need Spigot's heroic, but you don't have any momentum for the heroic.  So you have to take a lesser option and give your opponent time to deal with the problems coming.  This is somewhat mitigated by the momentum from losing initiative, and even better mitigated by the GIC that gives a free heroic which, IMO, the Brewers absolutely needed.

  Tapper also can't close a deal by himself anymore.  CA is a bit higher on the playbook than I'd like, and a lot of times, he fails to close out a model when I need him to.  The ideal activation is have him already on a KD'd, crowded out model, proc CA, kill the model, heroic some INF onto someone else (PintPot) and charge into a new scrum where CA can do some more work and the Brewers can migrate.  But a lot of times, Tapper just fails to finish the job.

  At least he can build Momentum though.  Esters wants to throw character plays that control some but that's it.  No momentum, not much damage.  She also can't close models out on her own that easy and is even slower than Tapper is.  It's rare she does more for me than her own heroic and abilities every turn.

  Stave needs Sturdy.  I don't want Hale and Hearty, I wouldn't turn down 2'' melee, but he needs Sturdy.

  Brewers have almost no dodges.  It's thematic, and I'm ok with that.  I wish Friday had a dodge too but she's wicked fast as it is. I think Friday's in a good place.

  Quaff is cool but Scum hides a ball moderately well, something the Brewers need, and is amazing for Sic' em.  I've played a lot of Quaff, but I never have the INF for second wind. 

  Hooper is who I don't like.  He's a classic example of needing momentum before he activates, for his own heroic.  The GIC makes him ok again I think, but I still prefer Stoker and Pintpot in any situation where 2'' melee isn't absolutely required.

  Honestly, I wish Tapper could gain from Ol' Jakes again, even just one.  I wish Spigot2 was not Spigot.  He's a hella good striker, but the Brewers need everything Spigot1 can do.  I wish they had a clearer gameplan.  I think they're close.  They just are outfought and outkicked so easily and while they have the tools to deal with it, it requires a heroic to get there.

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21 hours ago, Edek said:

Hale and hearthy is all Stave needs IMO. Other than that the guild is solid. The Brewer Players are probably a bit less competetive than in other guilds, as it's a common guild for people starting to learn the game. Also, drinking beers might be a bit less common on higher tables at tournaments ;)


EDIT: Quaff isn't bad, second wind is a sweet character play, Scum is just better :P and almost no teams brings two mascots to a tournament.

Masons are in kickof off box and I think that people starts with them too, and are much higher in rankings.

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2 hours ago, elmo said:

Masons are in kickof off box and I think that people starts with them too, and are much higher in rankings.

They also come with access to two of the best strikers in the game, a bunch of counter play / control mechanics that can catch inexperienced players off guard and both captains bring a range of "complex" mechanics which enable high end play..

Plus as previously stated, Brewers players tend to prefer a drink at tournaments and other events.. 

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4 hours ago, Jedianakinsolo said:

Tapper also can't close a deal by himself anymore.  CA is a bit higher on the playbook than I'd like, and a lot of times, he fails to close out a model when I need him to.  The ideal activation is have him already on a KD'd, crowded out model, proc CA, kill the model, heroic some INF onto someone else (PintPot) and charge into a new scrum where CA can do some more work and the Brewers can migrate.  But a lot of times, Tapper just fails to finish the job.

In my experience Tapper still can go in and TO someone from full, you just need to pick your targets better. A lot of the times in the first turn I manage a TO with Tapper. With 6inf and Tooled Up from Spigot you have a good setup. That gives either a charge and 2 attacks with CA and Tooled Up or charge and 4 attacks with Tooled Up, depending on what you need. With Tooled Up you have 3dmg on 2 net-hits which gives 12dmg for normal attacks and likely 4mom dmg for the charge which together gives 16hp, more than the standard def4+ arm1 model has. 

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I play a lot of vetRage Union, and recently started playing Brewers from the mystery box. The thing about Brewers for me is Tapper sets up your turn, then every model can potentially be devastating. Everyone puts out loads of damage, as opposed to Union, feels like my opponent really needs to dodge 1 or 2 heavy damage dealers, the rest are set up pieces. That’s what I’ve enjoyed about Brewers, feels like every turn is a threat for take outs, rather than just certain activations.

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Didn't they allude that GIC was a way that they wanted to tweak Brewers? That was one of the reasons your guys' GIC cards were the strongest of the lot. 

If they plan on making GIC an official format than boom, you are all set.

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Brewers are getting a buff with the plot card changes, well hopefully. Taking the Bracer For Impact plot card out will help scum and friday most notably. :)

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The problem with Brewers is they are behind the power curve, for what they're designed to do.  Their main issue is order of activation.  At best, they can eliminate 1 character, reliably, per turn acting in concert with other characters on their team.  I'm still not of the opinion, without excellent rolls, that any one Brewer can just simply take-out a figure by themselves.  Now, against a football team...this means they lose the points race.  And even against a team that likes to go 2-2, they still lose.  They do need to bump up, either in the kicking game or take-out role.  It doesn't need to be ridiculous, just a slight tilt one way or the other.  I get the whole GIC theory of balancing, but I think the problem needs to be resolved on a model by model basis instead of some global bump.

 

 

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Well, the whole idea behind the guild is getting the most out of their synergy. There aren't many models in the game that can take out a model on their own from full. But Tapper for example, with 6 inf you TO Mist and setup CA or you have a good chance to TO Harry. For Harry you go KD, CA from playbook and 4 bonus timed attacks  and if you wrap on two of those (with 8 dice at 2+/1 you have 60% for a wrap by one column). Brewers are my main guild (have been playing them since april last year) and I really don't feel the need for a buff. It would be nice, but I'm ok with how the guild is right now. The team I'm having most problems against is Tresher's magnificent six but even with them it is a close game every time.

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On 11/27/2017 at 3:17 AM, dwhite87 said:

Didn't they allude that GIC was a way that they wanted to tweak Brewers? That was one of the reasons your guys' GIC cards were the strongest of the lot. 

If they plan on making GIC an official format than boom, you are all set.

 

4 hours ago, GoonieLaw said:

 I get the whole GIC theory of balancing, but I think the problem needs to be resolved on a model by model basis instead of some global bump.

 

I do think the GIC concept is an interesting approach to balancing guilds as a whole, however I would need to see how these get implemented and if they work with the new approach to plot cards in competitive play..

Discussing our cards directly, I still feel "Another Round!" is the best card we have access to, and I still can't think of a valid reason to not take this as a default.. The free Heroic Play is a huge boon, however dropping the team healing down to 3 may have been a bit of an unnecessary nerf.. As previously mentioned, it was suggested that Brewers were going to get more powerful GIC option but bringing the heal rate down on this card also brought it level with some of the cards other guilds have access to.

Regarding the other cards, "Bring It On!" is a useful ability if you are wanting to reserve your momentum for Heroic Plays or to attempt to win a roll off and keeping the heal rate to 4 makes it the most generic card on our list, but it is just that, very generic.. Lastly we have "You, Hang Back!" which I just don't like.. The only use I can see it having is when bringing players back onto the pitch after a takeout as I can't think of any players I would want to keep near the goal for a whole match, the bonus healing is nice but goes against the theory of having players coming back onto the pitch..

While I understand these cards have been largely finalised ready for release I would prefer to see the healing rates on "Another Round!" and "Bring It On!" increased by 1 (to 4 and 5 respectively) and "You, Hang Back!" replaced entirely for something which either boosts the teams mobility (permanent "Times Called" if starting an activation in our own half of the pitch) or something crazy that allows a player to use an adjacent players Heroic Play at double the momentum cost (once per turn).

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