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      Tales of Infamy   12/13/2017

      Looking for more Guild Ball content? Just in the last week we've had new episodes of Singled Out, Double Dodge, Strictly the Worst and Don't Touch the Beard, as well as blogs from ForestRambo and MidwestWargaming! Check out Tales of Infamy in the Guild Ball section
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New to masons - tackling blacksmiths

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Hey all. Just copied my Facebook post on this subject below. Just wondering what tactics you guys find effective against blacksmiths as well as your thoughts on the below! Thanks! ūüėä

 

"Having played admittedly only my first game into blacksmiths, using my masons for only the second time (I usually play hunters). My experience is obviously limited. My friend was also only using his blacksmiths for the first time. I feel they're... strong. Very strong. And that's only with the first box of six. 

I'd be interested to know what more experienced players think. Are these guys gonna be hit with the nerf bat? Particularly things like piledriver. +3 net hits?! Not limited to once per turn?! Brick was basically deleted in one activation! (admittedly partly because I hadn't realised the danger) but still, 19 boxes and tough hide! Also being able to tackle from range?! 

They can hit hard and have great kick stats and high armour. Where's the weakness? Is it just my inexperience with both teams? By contrast I won my first masons game against a friend's first farmers game last week. The difference seems huge!

I'd hate to see power creep start to err... creep into such a well balanced game. I'm not saying it necessarily is. Just interested in others' opinions ūüėä"

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What do you know I played my second game of Masons against a buddies brand new Blacksmiths just recently as well (small world). I was playing with pretty much the Kick Off! six  minus flint (someone as using him as a proxy before I started my game). The blacksmiths are very strong indeed. I managed to win but, that was because a goal kick ended up placing the ball in way ferrite wasn't going to be able to get it before me.  

I hope they do have the nerf hammer come down on some of them:

Sledge: needs OPT on Piledriver for damn sure. Just trivially being able to ignore pretty mulch any armor in the game for two hits is just broke.

And I think if you reduce the apprentice/master auras to 4" makes them at least have to bunch up a little more and be careful in the order of operations. With this (I think anvil would have to lose sentinel maybe?) at least teams would have a better shot of being able to push masters away from apprentices or vise versa. Also the masters' playbooks prolly could not be built-to-wrap would be good

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Glad it's not just me! Anyone got any tips for using Masons into them? Would Hammer be stronger? I still need to pick up the second six, minus tower. 

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The Blacksmith weakness is a low df, which makes them very susceptible to character plays. Masons just don't do character plays. So masons are fighting uphill.

They also seem to have to signpost their plays a little, so if you're adaptable enough to see them setting up Sledge for a big fight, then either get his target out of their, or smash sledge to pieces.

If you are fighting, then their Apprentices are a little easier to take out, especially if you can set the board up a bit. Hammer is probably better than Honour at this, as he ought to easily move them out of the sential aura. Anything which ignores armour is going to help you here

If you're footballing, then I guess keeping it on Flint will avoid Cinder being able to tackle from range.

 

I think Masons ought to generate more momentum than the Blacksmiths

 

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Blacksmiths imo are the hardest matchup for Masons. I would recommnd taking Hammer. You want to ignore the masters and have hammer smash apprentices. Using knockback to push them apart. Have Brick take one influence and have him try to stay by Hammer to help cover with counter charge. Also keep Mallet close to charge and knock back people. 

Ideally charge late in the turn with hammer and build momentum to win the next turn. Fully load brick and mallet who are hopefully within 6'' of hammer. Go with hammer first and use positioning and knockback to get hammer back within 6 of brick and mallet then pop legendary. The idea is to kill all the appentices. The masters don't kill things very well.

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I think Blacksmiths can potentially score faster than Honour. Hammer, Marbles, Brick, Flint, Tower & Mist is what i'd play. Hammer his tooled up backed up by the counter-charge bubble and you threaten the ball pretty hard. Can totally go 2-2 no problem or at a stretch 1-4 / 3/0

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I've played a few matches vs the first Blacksmiths box and theyve been an interesting nut to crack. I think Hammer is the choice into them but in my experience he often gets a takeout and then Furnace ties him up for 2 turns. Cinder having unpredictable movement makes her hard for Masons to kill as well. I've also found that Flint is basically useless in the matchup. I've had a lot of trouble getting him to do much of anything against them. 

I've had the most success using Hammer, Chisel, Mallet, Tower, Brick and Marbles and going for 2-2 with Hammer doing a majority of the work. 

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15 minutes ago, Mr.G said:

 I've also found that Flint is basically useless in the matchup. I've had a lot of trouble getting him to do much of anything against them. 

 

Use him to kill the ball. close control and 4/1 vs males goes a long way. 

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9 hours ago, Mr.G said:

Cinder having unpredictable movement makes her hard for Masons to kill as well.

I guess our only way to deal with UM is to send in Mallet with his 3‚ÄĚ reach.¬†

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14 minutes ago, Jotnebane said:

I guess our only way to deal with UM is to send in Mallet with his 3‚ÄĚ reach.¬†

Masons have quite a few ways.

Honour - Quick Time 
oHarmony - Acrobatics 
Flint - Where'd he go 
Hammer - Follow up 
Mallet - 3" Reach 

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14 minutes ago, ForestRambo said:

Masons have quite a few ways.

Honour - Quick Time 
oHarmony - Acrobatics 
Flint - Where'd he go 
Hammer - Follow up 
Mallet - 3" Reach 

It's Wrecker that have follow up and that dont trigger on dodges. Is it the dodge from knockback you're thinking about with Hammer? That only works if he gets to attack.

Brick can be added to that list with his 2" melee.

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19 minutes ago, ForestRambo said:

Sorry I didn't mean follow up but indeed the dodge from knockback. No, it's not a ideal way to do it but it's a way of engaging a UM model :) 

Yeah, he has to work around it :) Having the ball and making a pass to get a dodge can work well too!

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11 hours ago, Mitchjames50 said:

Use him to kill the ball. close control and 4/1 vs males goes a long way. 

Getting him the ball has been much easier said than done. He certainly has trouble taking it from most of their players and I've found that Ferrite and Iron both make him look foolish, but that might be a positioning error on my point since I'm even letting him get near Ferrite. 

 

I've just found that Masons have more trouble killing apprentices than it would appear. Sledge is easy pickings because our big killing models can take him out and even deal with his Sentinel by using Knockback to take him away from those masters. Iron is difficult because he easily disengages due to his push and Cinder has UM which is difficult for us to deal with as most models who can get around the UM don't have the killing power to stop her.

 

I'm not especially scared when I see blacksmiths. Masons being flexible make it hard to be too worried about anyone, but they have a learning curve to play against which I'm still mastering. 

 

 

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Just wait until they score if you aren't receiving the kick off. With Hammer, Mallet and Tower, you should be winning the fights so they need to score to be optimal. 

Also, consider taking wrecker to break up some of their positional dependency. If you aren't running Honour, you don't need marbles as much.

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