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Ragnar Rok

So...half the team showed up

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So my son's Hunters have shown up, well the Winter Moon  group, not the Theron starter box, nor Seenah.  I also got a Chaska, and I tracked down a loose Zarola.

After building them, and priming them...and then looking at my Morticians, I kinda want to take them out for a spin instead of my Morticians.  Not kinda, I am taking them out for a spin. I mean, how much better for me to explain to him how to play them when he gets back from his mom's house next week? Right? Right?  And if he decides he doesn't like them, well, more for me.

I will more than likely be facing Obulus' Morticians, which I realize is Karma, Fish, and Theron's Hunter group.

I was thinking about this lineup tonight:

Skatha

Snow

Hearne 2

Zarola

Ulfr

Chaska

With this lineup, which is all I can run with the models I have, I could field Hemlocke, what is the best strategy? I"m thinking snare, score, forget about takeouts.  I would love any help, ideas, strategies, or tricks of the trade to help out.

 

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If Obulus or Cosset tries to pull your players out of position, Chaska can place down traps that stop them from getting too far out. He can also Tough Skin them to offset the DEF loss.

On top of that, the Morts have low HP pools, so between the chip damage your scorers can do and an All-In w/ Last Light from Chaska's Boom Boxes you might have more kill pressure than you think. Probably don't want to plan for it, but a 2-2 victory could be possible.

Otherwise, you're looking okay. Snare, Score.

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22 minutes ago, Anudem said:

You play Morts, do you have Minx?

I don't have Minx. Does she bring a lot to them?

12 minutes ago, JacctheInsomniac said:

If Obulus or Cosset tries to pull your players out of position, Chaska can place down traps that stop them from getting too far out. He can also Tough Skin them to offset the DEF loss.

On top of that, the Morts have low HP pools, so between the chip damage your scorers can do and an All-In w/ Last Light from Chaska's Boom Boxes you might have more kill pressure than you think. Probably don't want to plan for it, but a 2-2 victory could be possible.

Otherwise, you're looking okay. Snare, Score.

Awesome, I'm pretty excited about trying out a new guild.

 

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That's a tougher lineup to run especially against the opponents you listed. 

Here are somethings to be aware of

Fish are gonna be able to bounce off of you for days since you have only one model with reach. 

You don't have a good way to generate momentum so last light odd going to be costly. Plan to go second on all of your turns and be very discerning with how you spend the momentum you generate. But at the same time burn all of it,  heal up or whatever. 

You can over extend pretty easily and use zarola/skatha to get back to safety. Try to get your opponent to commit movement/setup against players you can call back leaving him out of position. 

Silence will wreck this team your activation order is really important and he ruins that.

Your all in combo for a kill is going to be a activate Hearne,  last light Chaska,  charge with Hearne, hit a momentous skewer, second attack (If you don't wrap enough) momentous kd, then activate Chaska and 3x boom box. Do these activations right after one another dont give them extra chances to clear conditions. This is only 12 damage so don't try to all in tank characters. 

Chaska can put in some good melee damage as well don't be afraid to charge with him. 

Ulfer and skatha can score that's going to be where most of your vps come from. Your likely looking at 3-0, 3-1 poor 2-2 wins and your gonna have to work for them. If lookup some videos/articles on how to best use her feat. 

It's not impossible but the team seriously lacks damage,  momentum generation and a way to get the ball (snow is actually good at this).

Hunters really rely on their setup and teamwork to make plays happen. It's a sharp decline in effectiveness when you swap out models for others that don't jive.

 

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23 minutes ago, Sitaavanu said:

That's a tougher lineup to run especially against the opponents you listed. 

Here are somethings to be aware of

Fish are gonna be able to bounce off of you for days since you have only one model with reach. 

You don't have a good way to generate momentum so last light odd going to be costly. Plan to go second on all of your turns and be very discerning with how you spend the momentum you generate. But at the same time burn all of it,  heal up or whatever. 

You can over extend pretty easily and use zarola/skatha to get back to safety. Try to get your opponent to commit movement/setup against players you can call back leaving him out of position. 

Silence will wreck this team your activation order is really important and he ruins that.

Your all in combo for a kill is going to be a activate Hearne,  last light Chaska,  charge with Hearne, hit a momentous skewer, second attack (If you don't wrap enough) momentous kd, then activate Chaska and 3x boom box. Do these activations right after one another dont give them extra chances to clear conditions. This is only 12 damage so don't try to all in tank characters. 

Chaska can put in some good melee damage as well don't be afraid to charge with him. 

Ulfer and skatha can score that's going to be where most of your vps come from. Your likely looking at 3-0, 3-1 poor 2-2 wins and your gonna have to work for them. If lookup some videos/articles on how to best use her feat. 

It's not impossible but the team seriously lacks damage,  momentum generation and a way to get the ball (snow is actually good at this).

Hunters really rely on their setup and teamwork to make plays happen. It's a sharp decline in effectiveness when you swap out models for others that don't jive.

 

Thanks for the advice, it's appreciated.

So, could be a long, trying first time with this team. Don't get discouraged, and pray my Theron box shows up!

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2 minutes ago, Ragnar Rok said:

Thanks for the advice, it's appreciated.

So, could be a long, trying first time with this team. Don't get discouraged, and pray my Theron box shows up!

Yup! :P What the hell though... it's all fun!

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Well,l I played two matches last night with this lineup:

Match one vs Obulus Morticians

Skatha

Snow

V Hearne

Jaecar

Chaska

Ulfr

Second Match against Midas led Alchemists with:

Skatah

Snow

V Hearne

Jaecar

Ulfr

Seenah

Second game went much better with Seenah, which I borrowed along with Jaecar. Seenah on the pitch really changes the way your opponent has to play you. It forces them to deal with it, crowd around it, make them tie it up with players. 

I think the all star was Jaecar, that guy moves so far, and hits like a truck. I got beat down in both games, but felt pretty comfortable running the team. I think Ulfr is the most challenging player to use. Both games I tried to use him in a solo/scout sort of play, and he got beat like a pinata. I see his value, but man being 4 inches out of the rest of the group, and then if he gets pulled toward the enemy, Cosset I'm looking at you B@tch, he is really in trouble.

I really like Skatha, and what she birngs, how she plays. I tried to use her in more of a support role, if that is incorrect, please clue me in.

And yeah, Jaecar, the all star, this actually happened with him tho;

IMG_1780.JPG

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That picture reminds me of my attack with Vet Kat against Hearne to kill him with Witness Me! (and Fahad with the pulse). Couldn't charge, but he was almost dead, so I thought: two attack should do it. I needed at least one Intensify and guess what? Two times in a row, with TAC 8 and Hearne's 3+/1, I had only 2 hits. Arrrgh.

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12 minutes ago, ForestRambo said:

@Ragnar Rok Glad to hear you enjoyed the game my friend. I totally see Skatha as a goal scoring captain who if the ball isn't in play / can't be brought into play for any reason is a enabler for the team. Keep us updated dude!

First two games with this team, but it felt pretty good. I can see the intricacies, and I messed up INF allocation so many times! Times where V Hearne was off by one, esp Jaecar off by one was crushing a few times. Times when Ulfr had too many. SKatha pretty much always had four or more. Seenah bringing zero hurts, need that first goal for that extra.

 

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7 minutes ago, Ragnar Rok said:

 

First two games with this team, but it felt pretty good. I can see the intricacies, and I messed up INF allocation so many times! Times where V Hearne was off by one, esp Jaecar off by one was crushing a few times. Times when Ulfr had too many. SKatha pretty much always had four or more. Seenah bringing zero hurts, need that first goal for that extra.

 

Skatha having 4 is a safe number. It's a snowball, pass and Coldsnap. Or Cold Snap, sprint and pass the ball, or a cold snap charge to dodge back out etc. 

Yeah, influence allocation is a fascinating part of the game. I somehow always seem to allocate and by the second activation which I allocated differently. It's a fantastic part of the game, your opponent being able to react to your resource deployment. 

Captain Jaecar nearly always gets 4, unless there's a specific circumstance he isn't useful and i'll give him 2 for a jog, gut and string, trap and run away. He's a monster and probably the best player on the team. Countless time he's started the turn by killing a player he's bashed up the turn before, only to dodge into another player, Gut & String, trap in front of them and back to the shadows leaving that play at a unavoidable -6 movement for the turn.

I want to love the bear, she just needs a tiny bit of love. 

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1 minute ago, ForestRambo said:

Skatha having 4 is a safe number. It's a snowball, pass and Coldsnap. Or Cold Snap, sprint and pass the ball, or a cold snap charge to dodge back out etc. 

Yeah, influence allocation is a fascinating part of the game. I somehow always seem to allocate and by the second activation which I allocated differently. It's a fantastic part of the game, your opponent being able to react to your resource deployment. 

Captain Jaecar nearly always gets 4, unless there's a specific circumstance he isn't useful and i'll give him 2 for a jog, gut and string, trap and run away. He's a monster and probably the best player on the team. Countless time he's started the turn by killing a player he's bashed up the turn before, only to dodge into another player, Gut & String, trap in front of them and back to the shadows leaving that play at a unavoidable -6 movement for the turn.

I want to love the bear, she just needs a tiny bit of love. 

So, I missed a huge part of Skatha's game with "Snowball" because I didn't really understand it, so didn't use it.  

If you drop a Snowball, does Snow take a parting blow if engaged in combat to come fetch the snowball? 

The snowball can be kicked around, and should to generate MoM, correct?

What else can the Snowball be used for? I wish there was a blind with it, like you kicked it into an opponents face!

I had a lot of Bearhugs w/Seenah. My opponent had the bear surrounded by three of his players, base to base with it. so it couldn't charge...but I totally forgot to use intimidating roar, which would have cleared out the melee zone a bit more. 

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5 minutes ago, Ragnar Rok said:

So, I missed a huge part of Skatha's game with "Snowball" because I didn't really understand it, so didn't use it.  

If you drop a Snowball, does Snow take a parting blow if engaged in combat to come fetch the snowball? 

The snowball can be kicked around, and should to generate MoM, correct?

What else can the Snowball be used for? I wish there was a blind with it, like you kicked it into an opponents face!

I had a lot of Bearhugs w/Seenah. My opponent had the bear surrounded by three of his players, base to base with it. so it couldn't charge...but I totally forgot to use intimidating roar, which would have cleared out the melee zone a bit more. 

So snowball's prime use is making playing Dodge. It costs 1 to make, and 1 to throw. Say Skatha is engaged by 2 players, she can use the snowball to pass to a friendly model and take a 4" dodge to disengage herself, say she is going on a goal run with the ball? She can make a snow ball and throw to make a 4" dodge for extra movement.

It can be used to give other players extra movement, you can throw the snowball to say Ulfr with the ball to make him dodge 4" for extra goal threat. You could also throw a snowball into a engaged player, you would need a 5 but on 4 dice that's very likely. You could then use the dodge to disengage that player to free up their activation etc. 

Snowball is a essentially a way to move your team around, it's hugely flexible and a really cool tool. It's also a way to generate momentum without needing anything else. Say you take the first activation and Skatha has the ball, rather then risking going into a player to make attacks, she could make a snowball and throw it to a friendly player to generate a momentum point which can use to take a goal shot. 

Snowball on the face of it may not be hugely impactful but in fact it's a hugely useful tool which when practiced with becomes a huge bit of utility for the team. 

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@ForestRambo Thanks much for painting a nice picture of how to use Snowball... I understand it so much better now. (I haven't used Skatha up to this point... and am perhaps going to take her for a test run tonight depending on who I match up against at my LGS Guild Ball evening.)

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2 hours ago, ForestRambo said:

So snowball's prime use is making playing Dodge. It costs 1 to make, and 1 to throw. Say Skatha is engaged by 2 players, she can use the snowball to pass to a friendly model and take a 4" dodge to disengage herself, say she is going on a goal run with the ball? She can make a snow ball and throw to make a 4" dodge for extra movement.

It can be used to give other players extra movement, you can throw the snowball to say Ulfr with the ball to make him dodge 4" for extra goal threat. You could also throw a snowball into a engaged player, you would need a 5 but on 4 dice that's very likely. You could then use the dodge to disengage that player to free up their activation etc. 

Snowball is a essentially a way to move your team around, it's hugely flexible and a really cool tool. It's also a way to generate momentum without needing anything else. Say you take the first activation and Skatha has the ball, rather then risking going into a player to make attacks, she could make a snowball and throw it to a friendly player to generate a momentum point which can use to take a goal shot. 

Snowball on the face of it may not be hugely impactful but in fact it's a hugely useful tool which when practiced with becomes a huge bit of utility for the team. 

So, you create a snowball for 1INF, pass the snowball for 1INF,  "GIve and Go",  to give her the dodge.

How does she throw a snowball 6" and then dodge to it? I assume that these are all Give n Go and Pass n Go plays?  Ah...i get it now. Pretty cool play. 

so when you add an extra < or >< with her legendary, where does that play fall on the playbook? At the end of the playbook? In the blank spot?

sorry for all t he questions

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9 minutes ago, Ragnar Rok said:

so when you add an extra < or >< with her legendary, where does that play fall on the playbook? At the end of the playbook? In the blank spot?

It's added to whatever result you choose from the playbook. It basically turns every :T: into a :T::><: or similar.

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9 minutes ago, Ragnar Rok said:

 

How does she throw a snowball 6" and then dodge to it? I assume that these are all Give n Go and Pass n Go plays?  

You got it! She can pass it using her 6" kick, then Skatha or the model you pass to can make a 4" dodge instead of banking the momentum. 

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4 minutes ago, Ragnar Rok said:

So, you create a snowball for 1INF, pass the snowball for 1INF,  "GIve and Go",  to give her the dodge.

How does she throw a snowball 6" and then dodge to it? I assume that these are all Give n Go and Pass n Go plays?  Ah...i get it now. Pretty cool play. 

so when you add an extra < or >< with her legendary, where does that play fall on the playbook? At the end of the playbook? In the blank spot?

sorry for all t he questions

"Throw" ...as used here would be a Kick I believe. Yes, they are the Give n' Go and Pass n' Move reactions... and  the extra >< is just added to whatever playbook result is chosen...so it's not on the playbook itself. :)

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44 minutes ago, Ragnar Rok said:

So, you create a snowball for 1INF, pass the snowball for 1INF,  "GIve and Go",  to give her the dodge.

How does she throw a snowball 6" and then dodge to it? I assume that these are all Give n Go and Pass n Go plays?  Ah...i get it now. Pretty cool play. 

so when you add an extra < or >< with her legendary, where does that play fall on the playbook? At the end of the playbook? In the blank spot?

sorry for all t he questions

Yeah exactly Ragnor, using momentous teamwork actions unlocked by either making a succesful pass or receviing one.

As the other guys have correcly stated her Legendary/Blessing are essentially a free result as well as any other ones from the playbook. If Skatha is in a real rough situation you can pop the legendary, hell even someone if you're down to TAC1 and take the push dogde you recieve from the Legendary play for some breathing room. It can be used to extend threat ranges, play around counter attacks or be used to give you that dodge movement you need to move into a opposing ball holder that something like unpredictable movement.

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Like I mentioned in your original post I'd advice looking up some videos on people playing Skatha (there is a channel that has several games using the winters moon box) where you can see how to use her effectively.

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26 minutes ago, Sitaavanu said:

Like I mentioned in your original post I'd advice looking up some videos on people playing Skatha (there is a channel that has several games using the winters moon box) where you can see how to use her effectively.

Another thing worth mentioning about her that hasn't been explicitly stated in this thread yet and i missed on my first few plays with her.  Her legendary creates tokens, tokens don't go away so even if you don't need to use them if you find yourself in a spot where you can catch the bulk of your opponents team pop your legendary.

Just to clarify, the tokens don't go away until the end of the turn. They do go away at that point.

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18 minutes ago, Coach Z said:

Just to clarify, the tokens don't go away until the end of the turn. They do go away at that point.

This is correct, I tried to find the supporting evidence I had read and found out that it was no longer accurate.

The confusions on my end occured from the last time I played her against engineers, pin vice oil specifically states it goes away, vengance tokens stay on the table, pg 16 of the rule book doesn't say that they go away.  So we assumed that unused tokens stayed in play unless specifically stated that they stay on the pitch.  As per 

 I was mistaken in the advice I gave.

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