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Steamcon Keynote Discussion

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3 hours ago, mcs1213 said:

As someone who has every model for Masons, Butchers, Engineers and Union. (minus a couple SE/LE ones) Plus a Hunter/Brewer Mystery box.  I think the move to PVC is very good for the future of the game.  I would make moving into the other guilds cheaper for me as well as faster to the table.   I do think they should be in the 6 man boxes, it follows the format that already exists for Farmers and Blacksmiths.  Plus it gives them a chance to do multiple guild conversions at once which releases more guilds faster even if each guild wouldn't be completely PVC. 

Completely agree that PVCs of original guild should be either 6-player boxes or don't do them. Less off-putting to people buying into a new guild (price, size, sheer numbers of rules) and wouldn't fuck with people who already bought one of the current 6-player metal boxes/has a starter set + some extra models to fill out the team.

3 hours ago, mcs1213 said:

I don't really ever get to do OP events / Tournaments.  So the format there bothers me less, or I just don't have the experience to feel foul about.

Where are you based? 

 

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Sorry, I don’t speak English well.

I really enjoyed watching this keynote. I think the way taken by steamforged game is a good one.

Minor guild : a great idea. I really like the concept to keep things fresh for old guild by adding few new models and at the same time make the game evolve with new guild. I think removing Union models from the non union guild is great for the game too.

New plot cards and roster size, need to know more but look cool.

Old guild in pvc is great. I won’t buy metal miniatures any more. I know I will buy one or more new guild when they will be in pvc ( I am looking at you fishermens and morticians). I hope it won’t take too long.

All that stuff is a great move for guild ball.

What wasn’t in the keynote and i wished have see :

Translation for all the background (French for me but I imagine the problem is the same in other countries). That’s a big problem for expanding the game.

Release schedule would be great.

More guild ball universe related game (rpg !)

God tear look very interesting !

 

 

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2 hours ago, S_A_T_S said:

Completely agree that PVCs of original guild should be either 6-player boxes or don't do them. Less off-putting to people buying into a new guild (price, size, sheer numbers of rules) and wouldn't fuck with people who already bought one of the current 6-player metal boxes/has a starter set + some extra models to fill out the team.

Where are you based? 

 

United States, East Coast.  There really isn't a community yet in the closest game store and any store that does have a community is 45 min to 1 hour away.  Which has left me using Vassal some and trying to get my regular board game group to play to limited success.  

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40 minutes ago, Redtiger7 said:

I missed that part where they showed the plastic Fishermen. Were they the old sculpt, or new ones? 

They were all new sculpts. Plus goalpost and pufferfish ball

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22 minutes ago, Dirt Rey said:

They were all new sculpts. Plus goalpost and pufferfish ball

Angel was effectively the same at a glance unfortunately. I think her trident might have gotten changed. 

Also the season 2/3 players were all the same as current

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7 hours ago, Raistlin13 said:

...Translation for all the background (French for me but I imagine the problem is the same in other countries). That’s a big problem for expanding the game.

Release schedule would be great...

Well, for German SFG did translate the SE2 Rulebook in German and you could download it for free (With all the Fluff). 

For SE3 the Basic Rules are free to Download and for the whole thing you have to pay, whichs seems fair to me.

So when I got the Farmers Box I was surprised to find the Cards in 8 diffrent languages, so I assumed they translated the Books too.

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8 hours ago, ADG said:

Veteran Siren from Season 2 is new ...

EDIT: Actually, not completely sure which one is the veteran!

XMpDKx5.jpg?1

I'm assuming the one on the far left is oSiren and the one behind her is her vet self.. mainly due to the harpoon and her 2" reach on the original version..

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20 hours ago, Raistlin13 said:

More guild ball universe related game (rpg !)

If you're happy with a fan-made one, albeit by a fan who is an award nominated RPG writer, yoi csn download Guildforged for free:

www.theblackorifice.co.uk/guildforged.pdf

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On 11/19/2017 at 8:05 AM, Cincinnati GBC said:

I think you are way over simplifying Warmachine and slightly exaggerating Guild Balls complexity in this post. You bring up roster creation for Guilb Ball as something you need to teach but don’t mention list creation in Warmachine? In my experience scenarios in Warmachine aren’t something you pick up completely in an afternoon, not to mention the huge number of models you need to memorize or be aware of to avoid an auto loss. The GIC system, plot cards, and initiative are different and something new players have to learn, but I don’t think they are as confusing or game changing as things in Warmachine are for new players. 

  I agree I'm oversimplifying Warmachine, but I'm not even talking about list creation.  It's a point system and you can recommend good models, but it's just a matter of throwing models at the point limit until you reach it.  It's trial and error from there on out.  I'm also not mentioning list design in Guildball.  I'm talking about the 10 man roster and draft which most players will be doing pretty quickly.  It's a fairly integral part to the game.  When I start playing a Guildball game, there's a lot more setup to me than in warmachine.  Drop warcaster/lists, roll off, deploy and go.  Guildball, for starters, can't even agree on it's steps for starting a game (Rolloff then captain or vice versa), but generally it's drop captains, roll off, draft lists, somewhere in there is GIC and then plotcards too, deploy and then the clock starts.  Then they playtested alternate deployments too, which I most certainly do not want.  Guildball has far more levels and things to think about how to play the game than Warmachine did.  I agree that Warmachine could get pretty in depth, but that was experience.  I was playing 50pt games and list building within a few games and I wasn't top level but I had a decent grasp of the rules and could play games.  Guildball is not like that, and it's getting worse.  I do love this game, but for a game that wants to be pulling board gamers over into the miniature world, it's got a steep learning entry.

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 I really don’t think there is as big a learning curve for entry as you are making it out to be. It’s there, and I understand it being a concern, but comparing this to Warmachine and saying Warmachine is easier to pick up is not something I agree with. Calling list building in Warmachine just throwing models at a point limit is way over simplifying. You can just throw 10 models on a roster and throw 6 on the table in guild ball as well if that’s all you really want to do.

You also brought up Steamforged testing new deployments, but Warmachine has done that in the past as well. Do you remember radial deployment? It’s where you deploy from the opposite corners of the board instead of within X” from the back edge. The last version of Steamroller I played also had different deployment zones depending on who went first. Neither of those were tests for the community either, they were just implemented right away and used competitively. There are less steps to setting up a game of Warmachine vs setting up a game of Guild Ball, but I’ll argue that deploying 6 models compared to 60 models helps make up for that. 

I understand your concern with complexity, but I don’t think comparing it to Warmachine is the right comparison. 

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Got to disagree with Guildball being too complex entirely. GIC and alternate deployments are optional rules. The draft and 10 man roster are part of the cup rules, also optional, as is time limits. The game out of the box remains as accessable as ever with most players playing with all the rules and plot cards within a few games. We experienced players have to remember when introducing the game to keep to the core game until new players are ready to have more options added.

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As a perpetual gaming noob that dabbles in GB and warmachine, I wouldn’t say setting up GB is harder. Probably a little easier, because of the model count. 

And man, I’ve been caught out and completely rinsed by some bizarre power-ability or crazy alpha strike way more in warmachine than in guild ball. Here I can usually see them coming just in time to avoid being completely sideswiped by them :D 

When you strip back to the total beginner phase, no plot cards, scenarios, timers or anything, guild ball is much less of an information wall than warmachine (I can go into guild ball knowing far less about my own and my opponents stuff and still enjoy it). 

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I have just finished reading Neil Gaiman's The View from the Cheap Seats where he refers to the South Sea Island Bubble & the Dutch Tulip crash.

Are the people who are going to play 'God Tear' going to do that as well as play Guildball?   Can this suite of games from Steamforged continue to grow without them stealing market share from one another?   I have trouble getting games in my usual club as there are "Too many other games to play."  There are only so many hours in a week and we have lives outside our gaming time.

Continual expansion is not compatible with life on a planet of finite proportions such as we live on.

Sorry to be a wet blanket. I did enjoy the week end:)

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I have also got to disagree in regards to Guild Ball's learning curve. I how you teach has a lot to do with it. No one in my community that plays now had any wargaming experience when I started teaching them. None of them took more than a handful of games to be playing with everything added in (drafting, plot cards, terrain, etc.) Granted not all of them are that great at it but they know the rules and have fun.

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2 hours ago, Lena said:

Did they mention any dates with regards to plastic models for existing guilds?

The keynote slide said "Community driven. Launching in the next few weeks."

During the keynote, they said they weren't sure how much demand there was and would be trying to consult the community soon. My interpretation is that they need to find out whether there is demand to pay out for expensive plastic moulds, or whether so many Guild Ball fans have bought (for example) fishermen already that there aren't enough people left who would buy them again to justify making the moulds. Maybe they're going to look to a bit of a pre-order/Kickstarter model to try to make sure they get some kind of return on their investment. But more news soon.

I think they have the sculpts done, but not the moulds. It would probably take at least six months after making an investment decision to make the moulds, produce the plastics, ship them from China and put them in the shops.

1 hour ago, The Old Buzzard said:

Are the people who are going to play 'God Tear' going to do that as well as play Guildball?   Can this suite of games from Steamforged continue to grow without them stealing market share from one another? 

I think Guild Ball has pulled in lots of Warmachine, Blood Bowl and football fans as well as people who like interesting miniatures (wide range of characters, animals etc). There's a certain appeal also to people who like the sort of European medieval fantasy type universe.

I think part of the aim of the "God Tear" game is to draw in people who have never played miniatures games ever before. If you could sell to computer gamers who like things like League of Legends, Final Fantasy etc. and convince them that tabletop games are fun too (with pre-assembled miniatures, 60 minute play-times) there's potentially a huge new market to expand into ... if it works!

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11 hours ago, ADG said:

I think Guild Ball has pulled in lots of Warmachine, Blood Bowl and football fans as well as people who like interesting miniatures (wide range of characters, animals etc). There's a certain appeal also to people who like the sort of European medieval fantasy type universe.

I think part of the aim of the "God Tear" game is to draw in people who have never played miniatures games ever before. If you could sell to computer gamers who like things like League of Legends, Final Fantasy etc. and convince them that tabletop games are fun too (with pre-assembled miniatures, 60 minute play-times) there's potentially a huge new market to expand into ... if it works!

I hope you are right and "it works".

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In regards to the "Is WMH or GB easier to teach" they're both well desgined that it's easy enough to run a demo game and give someone the impression of all the overarching mechanics, rules and interactions of the game. When you demo GB to someone, you explain 2 Vps for a take out, 4 VPs for a goal, momentum, influence and character plays.

That's essentially all the game is it's roots. How you spend those resources, how you use your character plays and how you achieve your VPs. The strength lies in the depth of the system and how mechnically clean the ruleset as well as the current balance of it, which allows player decisions to be the most important factor.

Anyway back to the OP's topic - keynote.

It was a really pumped keynote, the crowd were roaring at the results of the Unions in Chains and when Gutter got revealed as a Butcher it was SO loud. I'm really happy the losers didn't get anything, it made the event actually feel like it meant something and having the definivitive result was excellent.

Minor Guilds souind like a really nice idea (Corsair losing A&G can't come fast enough) and I'm relaly excited to see them rolled out, interstign to see how it affects the competitive side of the game as at some point next year some guilds will have there UIC models, some will have there minor guilds etc. It'll be a turbelent time and it'll be interesting to see if SFG manage it. (I'm sure they will).

Last big thing for me about the keynote was Godtear. I personally could NOT be more excited for this game. I have complete faith in SFG design and development team and the fact the game is a fantasy, skirmish game produced by them it's just huge. I will be jumping into this game as early as I possibly can.

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The Union In Chains to me was one of the most poorly ran community events I have seen, which is a real shame because it's concept was really cool.

The final outcomes being heavily swung by attendance at a single con ultimately just watered down the input from the wider community (it would have been better to have the initial outcomes sorted before the con and have the games played at the con decide some other big factor of the community event).

The Morticians-Hunters being overruled thing was stupid as it meant people reporting their games for three weeks had just wasted their time.

And whilst it is all well and good to say that the loosing guilds get nothing is a good ting, it does not really help continuing engagement with the hobby for people that play the loosing guilds as they have bugger all to look forward to over the next 6 months beyond seeing other people have nice new things to play with. Moreover the Hunters loosing before event and still getting something whilst the other three get bugger all is just inconsistent and tends to leave a sour taste in peoples mouths.

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32 minutes ago, Banjulhu said:

The Union In Chains to me was one of the most poorly ran community events I have seen, which is a real shame because it's concept was really cool.

The final outcomes being heavily swung by attendance at a single con ultimately just watered down the input from the wider community (it would have been better to have the initial outcomes sorted before the con and have the games played at the con decide some other big factor of the community event).

The Morticians-Hunters being overruled thing was stupid as it meant people reporting their games for three weeks had just wasted their time.

And whilst it is all well and good to say that the loosing guilds get nothing is a good ting, it does not really help continuing engagement with the hobby for people that play the loosing guilds as they have bugger all to look forward to over the next 6 months beyond seeing other people have nice new things to play with. Moreover the Hunters loosing before event and still getting something whilst the other three get bugger all is just inconsistent and tends to leave a sour taste in peoples mouths.

I got the impression that hunters started winning the race, so Obulus stepped in and did Obulus things. felt quite fluffy to me. I don't know how it can rank as one of the worst community events when it's actually changing the models that will be released. I don't know of any other game where they've given a community poll this much power over the development on their game.

We've all got minor guilds to look forward to, too. As a Butchers fanboy I'll buy whatever the butchers minor guild will be regardless, and will probably pick up at least one other that takes my fancy (probably Ratcatchers, they look ace). I keep getting told that I am in a minority as a faction-loyalist. But if even this diehard faction-loyalist is getting 2x 6-model boxes to buy in 2018, I don't think we need to quibble over one model.

But then again, I'm a butcher's fanboy, so suck it up it, fishy! ;-)

 

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