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Stave, new teams same problems?

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I have never really liked stave but with teams like farmers and blacksmiths out I am reconsidering all of my options. What are the positives of bringing stave? There are tons of negatives but I want to get the brewer experience from you guys.

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I see potential in Stave against Farmers. Pushing them around and breaking all the aura synergies can do wonders. Let's stay you get to push Tresher 4" towards you and away of his team. Suddenly you can KD him, he might be out of position to use a harvest marker. Against Blacksmiths I don't really think the brewers will struggle all that much.

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I've primarily been playing Blacksmiths of late and Stave is a very easy target for Ferrite and Alloy to bounce off of when they make a goal run. 

I'd hold off dropping him into your line up until you're certain you're facing just one of those two players.

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13 minutes ago, Alphadork said:

I've primarily been playing Blacksmiths of late and Stave is a very easy target for Ferrite and Alloy to bounce off of when they make a goal run. 

I'd hold off dropping him into your line up until you're certain you're facing just one of those two players.

I feel like that would be a problem for any team that I would play him into. Fish or Farmers would just momentum me to death. 

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I'd love for him to take a page out of Windle's book and get something like Hale and Hearty to fight the momentum farming. My one complaint out of the way.

Stave could also be cool if you run him with Quaff. Together they threaten push outs from a lot of places, it is silly. Lob Barrel a model 4" (leaving in charge range of quaff) bag of quaffers Quaff, charge target with quaff. Chances for a 4" push off of quaff on a 3/1 is about 75% (assuming a KD 4/1 from lob barrel) or a 5" push at just under 50%. You can reverse the order but your chances to hit are better if Stave goes first. I don't really want to take him at all but if I did he is probably better in a Tapper team since someone can make up for the INF he doesn't bring and Tap's goon squad wouldn't mind someone pushing enemies into jog range to get that extra attack in.

KD on 1 is good for counters vs smiths if they don't knock you down first. They are going to stand up but that keeps them netting 1 less mometum.

I don't like Stave into Farmers (nor into smiths once Hearth drops) because of all the 2" melee. Lob barrel could disrupt auras and move players away from harvest markers but I'm in the camp that doesn't believe it is worth all the bullying he is going to get for having 2/0 on a 1" melee.

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I'll tell you one thing for sure. The is a shiny, golden way to play Stave that I hope picks up steam in the future.

Cage Ball.

Stave w/Tapper, Quaff, and Pintpot  (or whoever but his economy makes up for Stave's lack there of) is a mean cage ball team. You are constantly threatening pushouts on any model DEF 4 or lower. Jac is probably the only model that compares to Stave in cage ball (Jac + Shark is roughly equivalent for pushouts) and they are the kings. Amazingly good fun. If you haven't played Brewers in cage ball you are missing out on the happiest time of your guildball life.

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Stave could really be good. Lob barrel is a nice tool that could help the brewers a lot but it's currently badly outweighed by how easy it is to farm him for momentum or easily kill him over a couple activations and twenty momentum later.  Sturdy would help a lot, but 2" melee still hurts him quite a bit at 2/0. I'd play him if he had sturdy though. I'd at least try. 

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I have decided that I will being playing the Kick Off Box six for the next few weeks.

Tonight was my first game against the new farmers (Thresher, Peck, Tater, Harrow, Jack Straw, and Millstone.

It was the first game my opponent had played with Thresher and he made some errors, even with errors Thresher was brutal.

Anyways, Stave Highlights:

  • Missing Lob Barrel hurts, especially on lone targets. Stave was able to throw 2 barrels, and missed most of the targets. I like to think hitting the first would have gotten me thresher, but... That's a digression.
  • I was able to use Lob Barrel to disengage Friday from a cluster of farmers. Once moved out she was able to stand up and take a shot at the goal.
  • The momentous knockdown on one is amazing, being able to knock down two models, even while crowded out for momentum was helpful in getting the eventual win.

My final thoughts are this, he does well in the 10 and can have a game against Farmers and Blacksmiths, momentum farming didn't seem to be as much of a thing off of Stave. Being defense 2 still hurts, Tater used Stave to knock down Friday and a few others. I feel like he needs to be more cagey.

I will make sure to post more as the experiment continues.

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Having played another couple games against the farmers, I have some more thoughts.

As a momentum farm, Stave will generate a lot for the opponent, but I find that is less of an issue in season 3. 

I hate having Stave by the rest if my team to generate Mow Downs. That was a mistake. 

Missing Lob Barrel still sucks, but it still makes a neat disengagement tool.

I get a lot of use out of the momentous knockdown on 1. Almost more than the lob barrel. 

I find myself wishing Stave had an armor, or a way to contribute momentum when throwing ng the barrel. And I have not found a chance to use his heroic since season 1.

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I have a tournament at the beginning of the year, I was wanting a reason to consider having Stave in my match day 10 as he was the first ever model I painted. From reading this and there potentially being multiple smiths and farmer players I may have got my reason. I will give a round up of how he does afterwards. 

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32 minutes ago, Steveedoug said:

I have a tournament at the beginning of the year, I was wanting a reason to consider having Stave in my match day 10 as he was the first ever model I painted. From reading this and there potentially being multiple smiths and farmer players I may have got my reason. I will give a round up of how he does afterwards. 

Who else are you planning to take? I've not worked out who to he would replace.

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Well Tapper, Esters, Scum, Stoker, oSpigot, Friday, Lucky, Mash, and Hooper were the squad with Pintpot potentially losing his position to Stave. I will need to have a good think about it, see who would benefit from him the most. 

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2 hours ago, Steveedoug said:

Well Tapper, Esters, Scum, Stoker, oSpigot, Friday, Lucky, Mash, and Hooper were the squad with Pintpot potentially losing his position to Stave. I will need to have a good think about it, see who would benefit from him the most. 

I see where you are going here as far as use and matchups but pint pot is arguably are most efficient model with the beer tokens and Stave is least efficient as he does not even bring the influence to use his own play I think that's a really tough swap to make.

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I am still fairly new to this, any recommendations or do people think it just isn't feasible to get Stave in the line up without losing a more useful player? 

I would say at least a quarter of the tournament will be smiths or farmers

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So far, using the kick off six has been what I have been doing with Stave. When he is good, he is really good, controls the board, repositions models and is an all around bully.

When he doesn't work, he is a big drain... And I find myself not using a lot of his card. I really like the knockdown on 1, and the ranged push. I haven't used the heroic in a long time, and I haven't used his push character play since I picked him up again.

He can be surprising if your opponents haven't seen him, which could be fun. Most of all have fun with it. If you enjoy playing him, do it. 

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I have never really played him. I have been playing the escalation league for most of the time I have been playing, so not got loads of full games under my belt. I have thoughts on how he might work so may have to test it and see. It will be funny if I never have a match up to use him in lol 

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After a long break from the Brewers, I brought them out again for the SteamCon USA Rookie League and my FLGS Blacksmiths Launch event. I brought Stave every time, just for fun.  Most notably, in the BS Launch event, I made Friday my Captain and have her Legendary B - the 3” pulse KD effect.  This led me to believe a couple of things about Stave and the Brewers.  1). Having access to that kind of Legendary would be a huge boost for the Guild. 2) While I still believe Stave should have GM in addition to his TH (otherwise that KD on 1 is rarely a threat), perhaps it’s his current non-defensive tech that needs boosting.  Incorporating the current Heroic into his base Barrel Lob,  and then creating a new Heroic that adds either 1” to the AOE or adds Poison or Burning to hit models would make him a threat more in balance with his movement and defensive liabilities.

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Stave is just not good enough to run; slow, soft and one trick play kinda makes him less and less useful as it goes on. Play book isn't super Either. options like lucky, pint pot he got cut real fast.

Played a bunch of games against the farmers, and the only path to victory I've hit on is out maneuvering and outscoring them. Farmers 2, is gonna make them THE deletion team IMO.  

Quaff, lucky and esters. Play like the fish

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I really enjoy lobbing barrels hes is good fun. I agree though when he is hot he is hot when he is not it can be painful. Granted I have a very limited experience. I like his concept though I feel like he is just missing something. 

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Stave has a lot of potential, but he requires babysitting and is a liability if your opponent can get a model into melee with him.

Personally, I'd like to see his Heroic change to "The old heave ho: This model gets +2" range to character plays".

This will give him the opportunity for more defense as he won't need to get too close, and feeds into the Brewers playstyle of "Momentum to be awesome".

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In my last game vs farmers Stave was the MPV, the Chairman of the board. pushing them all over the place and setting up the rest of the team. He even managed to score me the winning goal, which has now lead to his name being changed to Stavid Beckham :lol:

I've been playing with Stave a lot lately because I've been facing lots of farmers, blacksmiths and masons. against any other team he probably wouldn't see the table, but with plenty of def 3 players around he can be great. I occasionally use him against hunters or butchers as anti bear/boar tech. for me he rarely sees past the half way line, you have to play it safe with him. I often find I'm lobbing barrels then moving back to safety. 


A turn one strategy  I love to use if my opponent has over extended (or possibly if stave kicked out)  is throwing the barrel so its just behind your target, pushing them towards you so you can get the tapper and a few beaters in range for an easy turn one take out.

His momentus KD on 1 hit with tac 6 makes him decent if he does find himself in the middle of the masons or smiths because  the armor makes things tricky for you to get the KD you want with your other players. 
 

basically Stave is great as long as you play him into the right match up and you're careful with him.

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