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AaronWilson.

A new blog dedicated to the Hunters guild

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29 minutes ago, Benito said:

1 BOTSF = good

2 BOTSF = even better :)

Thank you for your blog. It's very interesting.

You're welcome mate! Will probably do a end of the year recap / thoughts going towards next year blog at one point :)

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9 hours ago, Anudem said:

I'd like your input on this.  Why do you think oHearne is better with Theron that Vet Hearne?  Outside of the obvious forest synergy, what does oHearne bring to your Theron build?  Yes, the forest teleport is strong, but how often do you load up oHearne with influence?  My experience has been that Vet Hearne's last light is very synergistic with Theron and he brings an extra influence to the party.  Being able to fuel up character players, with character plays with the Last Light/Sun Strike combo has been very strong in my games.  BOTSF is a good heroic, but it feels redundant with Theron.  

I may not have written a blog, but I have strong feelings on this point :D

Honestly, I think vHearne is one of my least favorite models in the game. This isn't to say he's bad necessarily. But he is incredibly boring. His playbook is pretty hands down worse than oHearne. While it's great to have the momentous KD and tackle on 2, he doesn't do much beyond that. The lack of momentous damage until 4 results is really bad and Last Light's only consistent advantage over Blessing is that you don't have to spend the momentum if you aren't in a place to use it. Compare this to a model with momentous Singled Out on his first column, a KD on three and momentous damage on two and oHearne feels much better to load up.

In addition, the ability to teleport into a forest is ridiculously powerful with Theron. It turns oHearne into a Swiss army knife. It doesn't just let him engage from distance. The forest turns oHearne into a legit goal threat, allows him to hit and run and makes him a bit more durable.

So with his more momentous playbook, greater mobility, and potential influence efficiency with Blessing of the Sun Father, oHearne just feels better in general to me than vHearne. Really the only advantage vHearne has with either captain in my mind is that he brings the second point of influence, which allows the Hunters to more viably run him with Seenah and have a second 2" melee model on the pitch. Beyond that, oHearne is better offensively, slipperier (especially with Theron) and better at set up with the ability to use Single Out and knock a target down.

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46 minutes ago, Penguin Warrior said:

I may not have written a blog, but I have strong feelings on this point :D

Honestly, I think vHearne is one of my least favorite models in the game. This isn't to say he's bad necessarily. But he is incredibly boring. His playbook is pretty hands down worse than oHearne. While it's great to have the momentous KD and tackle on 2, he doesn't do much beyond that. The lack of momentous damage until 4 results is really bad and Last Light's only consistent advantage over Blessing is that you don't have to spend the momentum if you aren't in a place to use it. Compare this to a model with momentous Singled Out on his first column, a KD on three and momentous damage on two and oHearne feels much better to load up.

In addition, the ability to teleport into a forest is ridiculously powerful with Theron. It turns oHearne into a Swiss army knife. It doesn't just let him engage from distance. The forest turns oHearne into a legit goal threat, allows him to hit and run and makes him a bit more durable.

So with his more momentous playbook, greater mobility, and potential influence efficiency with Blessing of the Sun Father, oHearne just feels better in general to me than vHearne. Really the only advantage vHearne has with either captain in my mind is that he brings the second point of influence, which allows the Hunters to more viably run him with Seenah and have a second 2" melee model on the pitch. Beyond that, oHearne is better offensively, slipperier (especially with Theron) and better at set up with the ability to use Single Out and knock a target down.

I'll give oHearne more love and try him out. I disagree with the playbook argumebt at this time. I don't use Hearne as a damage dealer, but more intermittent support. Momentous damage is nice, but I'm already not using Hearne for his damage output. Momentous KD see's way more action than oHearne's momentous damage. We already have enough models dealing damage that the influence pool is already strapped, and to me oHearne is at the lower end of the priority list for influence allocation. Vet Hearne's teleport is non-existant so I'm fine with cedeing how good the forest teleport is with Vet Hearne. I don't buy the boring argument as well. Boring doesn't have anything to do with the efficiency and effectiveness of a model. 

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1 minute ago, Anudem said:

I'll give oHearne more love and try him out. I disagree with the playbook argumebt at this time. I don't use Hearne as a damage dealer, but more intermittent support. Momentous damage is nice, but I'm already not using Hearne for his damage output. Momentous KD see's way more action than oHearne's momentous damage. We already have enough models dealing damage that the influence pool is already strapped, and to me oHearne is at the lower end of the priority list for influence allocation. Vet Hearne's teleport is non-existant so I'm fine with cedeing how good the forest teleport is with Vet Hearne. I don't buy the boring argument as well. Boring doesn't have anything to do with the efficiency and effectiveness of a model. 

My main point in saying that he's boring is that he's like Locus. He goes in, maybe gets the KD and then does nothing with any extra influence because the only other momentous result he can get reliably is a momentous double push on three, which is nice, but situational, whereas access to momentous 2 damage is less so. And in my experience, I have to give him extra influence because he is for sure not going to to hit the KD on his first swing or he has to charge because he's so slow when he's not in some kind of terrain. So vHearne really only does one thing whereas oHearne can do the exact same thing almost as well and has greater flexibility.

Then again, maybe I've just had a streak of horrendous luck with this model in particular that has spread out over something like 10 games and I'm letting that color my opinion.

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20 minutes ago, Penguin Warrior said:

My main point in saying that he's boring is that he's like Locus. He goes in, maybe gets the KD and then does nothing with any extra influence because the only other momentous result he can get reliably is a momentous double push on three, which is nice, but situational, whereas access to momentous 2 damage is less so. And in my experience, I have to give him extra influence because he is for sure not going to to hit the KD on his first swing or he has to charge because he's so slow when he's not in some kind of terrain. So vHearne really only does one thing whereas oHearne can do the exact same thing almost as well and has greater flexibility.

Then again, maybe I've just had a streak of horrendous luck with this model in particular that has spread out over something like 10 games and I'm letting that color my opinion.

I think a big part of my Vet Hearne boner comes from my Chaska experience. Dude, have you ever quad boom boxed anything? Because it's a drug, and I'm addicted. This may be why I prefer Vet Hearne's playbook. My normal activation with Vet Hearne is to give him zero or one inf and use him to Last Light Chaska. That's usually it. I can see oHearne being bette should I want more, but between Theron, Minx and Chaska I am already low on influence to give. If I were to not use Chaska, my play with oHearne would probably increase. 

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For me oHerne usually single handedly generates 6 momentum at the bottom of a turn via teleporting or walking into a model with Sun strike on him and just Single out 3 times.  He can then use his advance or teleport to withdraw back to safety as he's very squishy.  While forward he can throw out his own skewered with one of the momentum (or two for a b.t. into def 5) he generates thus setting up a nice bottom of one turn into top of the next turn order.  The momentum and snare set up an early take out form theron or jaecar and then you are up an activation and have the same option at the end of this turn.

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There is one more thing to consider: if you run Jaecar, oHearne can prepare his targets way better. For 1 inf you can put singled out and probably -1 def on them, which is exactly what Jaecar needs to perform. vHearne can, maybe, give them -1 def for the same inf cost.

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16 hours ago, Anudem said:

I'd like your input on this.  Why do you think oHearne is better with Theron that Vet Hearne?  Outside of the obvious forest synergy, what does oHearne bring to your Theron build?  Yes, the forest teleport is strong, but how often do you load up oHearne with influence?  My experience has been that Vet Hearne's last light is very synergistic with Theron and he brings an extra influence to the party.  Being able to fuel up character players, with character plays with the Last Light/Sun Strike combo has been very strong in my games.  BOTSF is a good heroic, but it feels redundant with Theron.  

Thank's for the response mate.

I think oHearne is in a fantastic spot as a player and first turn he most oftens gets 3 for me and in later turns will sit on normally either 1 or 3 influence. The forest synergy is hugely strong with Theron, it means he can always do something turn one and he can do a lot of good things. Momentous Singled out into 2 momentous  2 damage results and a skewered is really solid. Cornercase scenarios he can do 3 Singled Out with Sunstrike on for 6 momentum. Or if he's going into a 3/1 player can go ahead and do 3 2 damage momentous results and a skewered, that's a reliable 9 damage.

That's on top of his blessing, who can blessing Theron for a free heroic play prior to a set up or most typically can just throw out a skewered during his activation . 1 Influence for a Momentous Single Out and a Skewered is hugely efficient. In one of my pevious game it's all the set up Theron needed to just kill Blackheart. Tac 9 on a def 2 Blackheart is a dead one. As well as this the foerst just makes him hugely mobile and a pseudo goal threat for the team. In my eyes oHearne brings SO much to the table for Theron. He can flex from a efficient set up piece, from a goal scoring piece to a bruiser. I'm a big fan!

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2 hours ago, ForestRambo said:

3 Singled Out with Sunstrike on for 6 momentum

Oh dear! ... how, under the watchful eye of our Sun Father,  have I missed doing this thing... for so long?  I deserved to be quad-boom-boxed off the pitch of life. #failmalritch #yousuckmalritch #turninyourhuntinglicenseyoueediot #learntoreadoldman

:P 

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1 hour ago, Shrinkydinkman said:

You can build momentum off of using a character play debuff on the same target multiple times? 

You can, only the effect itself doesn't stack. (Also: if there was +1 damage in addition to +2 tac, the target would suffer the damage each time.) What you can't: gain momentum from a momentous tackle result if the target doesn't have the ball, or gain momentum from a momentous 1 damage if the target has tough hide etc.

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On 12/8/2017 at 9:46 AM, Anudem said:

I think a big part of my Vet Hearne boner comes from my Chaska experience. Dude, have you ever quad boom boxed anything? Because it's a drug, and I'm addicted. This may be why I prefer Vet Hearne's playbook. My normal activation with Vet Hearne is to give him zero or one inf and use him to Last Light Chaska. That's usually it. I can see oHearne being bette should I want more, but between Theron, Minx and Chaska I am already low on influence to give. If I were to not use Chaska, my play with oHearne would probably increase. 

How do you quad boombox? I would love to do this to my buddy's Grange, or Thresher build, just to laugh.

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2 minutes ago, Ragnar Rok said:

How do you quad boombox? I would love to do this to my buddy's Grange, or Thresher build, just to laugh.

With Therons Blessing and vHearnes Last light. Preferrably with sun strike too, as to self fuel the momentum for the last light boom box.  

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www.forestrambo.blogspot.com

Hey guys, dropped a new article on the blog this evening. The topics tackles experimenting with those "bad" players the internet tells you are unplayable and what you might gain from it.  

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I really need to write up something that's got a better overview.

I think your choice between Ohearne and Vhearne breaks down to a few factors.

1) are you running Jaecar? Take OHearne, he sets up your influence heavy piece better than anyone else on the team.

2) are you running Chaska? Take VHearne for the threat of a quadbox

3) are you running Seenah? If your not take take Vhearne because he'll help compensate for the lost influence.

4) are you running no hearnes? Go buy a hearne.

Both Hearnes are setup pieces. No one is scared of their damage output, they both have unique goal paths but don't have the speed/kick stats to really threaten goals on the regular.  Vhearne brings a reliably KD and a buff that goes well with theron (because sunstrike can fuel/refund the cost), chaska (quad box), Egret (extra dodge), Hemlock (less influence demanded).  Ohearne brings singled out which goes well with Jaecar, Fahad, Seenah, Minx ... because more hits.  

Like most setup pieces comparing the 2 directly doesn't tell you a lot because they support completely different team comps.  Some comps need as much influence as possible and greatly benefit from from stacking LL & BotSF, they should always take VHearne.  Other comps can get away with the -1 influence and really benefit from having 2 BotSF to get around influence demands, they should always take OHearne.

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2 hours ago, ForestRambo said:

www.forestrambo.blogspot.com

Hey guys, dropped a new article on the blog this evening. The topics tackles experimenting with those "bad" players the internet tells you are unplayable and what you might gain from it.  

Are you gonna do a followup article focusing on the "bad" players and your results using them?

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14 hours ago, Shrinkydinkman said:

Are you gonna do a followup article focusing on the "bad" players and your results using them?

I could do this! :)

Last night's game with Skatha, Fahad, Minx, Zarola, Ulfr & Seenah was a 12-5 win v Blacksmiths. Skatha got 2 goals, Zarola killed bolt and Seenah ate Alloy. Tonight I'm playing a friend, going to use Theron, Fahad, Chaska, Minx, Seenah & vHearne. Quad boom box dream! 

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Can't figure out which thread to put this in, and I don't want to create a thread so here we go.

 

So one of the regulars in my meta picked up Farmer's and has been thrashing the other guys for the past few weeks with Thresher, since it was my turn this week I dropped a build I've been interested in trying out against Farmer's.

Theron, Snow, Vet Hearne, Chaska, Egret, Zarola

Vs

Thresher, Buckwheat, Tater, Millstone, Harrow, Jackstraw

He win's roll off and elects to kick, which is what I want.  He kicks off using Thresher and the game is over from there.  A fully loaded up Theron Sun Strike's himself and Chaska and chips Thresher up with some shots and lands Pinned onto Thresher and BOTSF Chaska.  My opponent uses Millstone to place harvest markers next to Thresher giving me my out with Theron.  I Midnight offering Theron out of charge threat and behind his forest and now my entire team is out of his threat range and unable to generate momentum.  I pass the ball to Chaska to dodge him into position, and thanks to Pinned he is safe from Thresher until I decide to unload on Thresher.  My opponent gets Tater up to threaten countercharge, but I'm not too concerned because my character plays can play around his threat.  I eventually go in on Thresher and Quad Boom Box him to two health, and I win roll off with a fat stack of momentum.  Next turn I kill Thresher off with Snipe and his Tater with Pinned, then use my last influence to run behind an obstruction.  With Tater and Thresher controlled the entire match, my opponent had no chance to ever find his groove.  I eventually win 12-2 with 4 kills (Thresher x2, Tater, Jackstraw) and a goal from Egret (she still sucks).  

 

As Thresher likes to kick off to get into position, this felt like a great game.  I could do without Egret, and the only thing Zarola did was the first turn Midnight Offering which likely was the lynch pin to the rest of the game.  I honestly fear Grange more than Thresher.  He brings in a ton of boxes and Fallow looks like an absolute terror into Hunters.

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Yeap, Making Thresher kick to Theron is pretty ideal (even better we can draft Theron knowing this). Theron is one of the best (If not the best) at being able to shut down Thresher when he kicks to us.

The tougher situation is when we're made to kick to Thresher, as they form a little death circle with Thresher threating 17" and Tater 16" out of it and just hold the ball up until they get a free goal, or they decide it's time to commit Thresher & Tater, I still don't have a great plan for kicking to Thresher, it's really tough.

 

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You played very well, but what if:

- your opponent is an adept player (=knows his models and yours too) and doesnt offer Thresher to pin + boombox on the very first move

- you fail to pin him

- you fail to succeed on 1-2 boomboxes

Again, this was optimum play on your part, but Thresher has no built-in auto pilot either. He gets scary and NPE in the right hands. (BTW would your opponent lose this way a second time?)

Congrats anyways, I cheer when hunters eat face in hunters style :)

Edit: "...and a goal from Egret (she still sucks)" I always smile with all my 32-2=30 teeth when reading your comments on Egret :D

 

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If it helps the last event I attended I played Thresher (And the same other 5) 3 times in a row and won 3 out of 2. If the Thresher player makes a mistake we can capitalize on it well  but really when we're kicking to Thresher that's what we're hoping for.

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2 hours ago, angyi said:

You played very well, but what if:

- your opponent is an adept player (=knows his models and yours too) and doesnt offer Thresher to pin + boombox on the very first move

- you fail to pin him

- you fail to succeed on 1-2 boomboxes

 

1) My opponent is a pretty good player but I did catch him flat on his feet. We talked about it and even if he didn't kick with Thresher that is still preferable for me because Thresher is not in a position to threat. 

 

2) Failing to Pin would suck. Suck a ton. But we play a dice game, so I'm gonna try regardless. If Theron fails to Pin Zarola would pull Theron back to safety as I curse.  I also get two tries at Snipe to build momentum so I can bonus time Pinned on a hopefully snared Thresher so odds are pretty favorable to land the Pin.

 

3) I don't fail to Boom box, it's too important. If I do, hopfully Thresher is still chipped up enough to take out on the first activation of turn two. 

 

4) Egret sucks. 

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1 hour ago, Anudem said:

even if he didn't kick with Thresher that is still preferable for me because Thresher is not in a position to threat.

Yeah that way you successfully denied his first-turn-game-over modus operandi. But also his posse farts a fistful of harvest markers, he builds up his lines a bit, and going second means he'll have an easy way to clear conditions if Millstone fails to protect him, ignore rough ground etc. To me that's the backside of Theron vs brawlers (not exclusively Thresher but vRage and the likes): you denied his turn, but practically did nothing to collect VPs either, and contact can't be avoided for ever.

You're absolutely right that in dice games it's a valid tactic to push your luck a bit if your opponent would inevitably grind you otherwise. I just think that Thresher (contrary to vRage etc.) is the only matchup that I can't win if my opponent doesn't make any strategic mistake. That said, I'm far from being the most skilled hunters player, and will try your above 6 for sure.

*sorry for derailing the topic, I know it's about the blog and not my Thresher frustration *

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