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Zarodis

Thresher, the destroyer of dreams.

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So, as a newer Mason's player I came to the forum a while back to seek out help for my Mason's. I've only played since July and loved the Mason's and haven't really touched another guild since starting the game. After learning some tech, and cheeky plays with the starting six, I moved on and bought the whole set, as well as A&G and Mist. I have been doing quite well in my meta, not many people have beat me a whole lot since I've learned the Masons well. I newer player from Nebraska moved down however, and we've had a lot of really good games, and it's pushed me as a player. All our games have been pretty solid, until today. Thresher, Jackstraw, Tater, Buckwheat, Bushel and Millstone, just destroyed me in a 13-0 match. Mainly Thresher and, Tater doing most of the work. I played the match with the starting 6 and here is a brief summary of what happened.

I was the kicking team, and I had flint kick the ball toward cover, and allocated 4 to Honour, 2 on Mallet, 2 on Harmony, 3 on Flint, and one on Brick. He moves tater up the field, gets the ball, kicks it to Bushel, and ends, I move mallet up closer to tater. He then activates Jackstraw, pops some harvest markers, teleports up to cover, and now tater can countercharge. I move brick up for counter charge. I move marbles and pretty much end my turn he kicks the ball to thresher, and moves  bushel up the field. I just move harmony into what I think is a better position and end. Now, I don't remember what Farmer shenanigans were pulled to get him closer up the field but here's where the unstoppable rampage of Thresher begins.  Thresher runs in on mallet, ties up brick and marbles, and knocks both mallet and brick down, and kicks a goal and knee slides away.  At this point I throw the ball to flint have him go and kick it to honour for momentum and hang out by cover, and then, i activate honour decide not to go after Jackstraw, out of fear of thresher and Tater, pass the ball back to flint, and dodge him away from bushel, because i was worried about balls gone. He ends with plus 5 momentum, to my zero. 

Turn two is where I just lose all hope, he starts with Thresher, runs in, and Mallet and marbles die right away, and honour gets knocked down Harmony takes 3 damage, and I just cry on the inside. I decided to take brick and try and punch Thresher some to no avail. Then Tater comes in and kills Harmony. So I moved honour up to fight thresher, which was a mistake, because he put her in the dirt, and made me waste 3 influence, And then Flint, cant get to the goal very well, so he runs away with the ball and he's at 7 momentum to my 1. 

Turn 3, queue  Thresher destroyer of dreams, as he proceeds to kill brick, and leave honour on 1hp. Everyone else is at the sidelines from coming back, and flint cant do anything, so i just use flint to punch thresher 4 times before tater one finishes off poor hounor. 

So, I didn't expect Thresher to just run wild on the masons like that, and Tater really tied me up, which i thought i would be used to since I play brick. The other models didn't really do much harm, but man it was rough. I probably was a little too grouped up as well. But any advice, on playing into farmers would be appreciated, and any mason advice in general. Now that I work with all 12 plus the two union models I have a lot more options. But I typically don't take much of them on an Honour team, Hammer I take Tower, and Wrecker a lot, sometimes Vet harmony against hunters the rest haven't seen much play. 

So, to sum it all up, please help, any masons advice is appreciated, insight on models or tactics, and especially some help with Farmers, and their Captain who Likes to reap my hopes and dreams. 

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From the sounds of it Thresher got to "live the dream". This can happen the first time you play against something due to being unprepared. It shouldn't happen a 2nd time just by merit of you having seen it before.

Generally you want to play your counter charge bubble slightly further back than you usually would and delay the game as much as possible. Then use ss on Flint or Harmony to attack the ball and force Thresher to split his attention. He's awesome, but can only be in one place. Mallet and Honour/Marbles can put enough threat on Thresher that he can't just commit to you any time he pleases. 

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As the Thresher player that lived the dream, you're correct, I did indeed live the dream.  Not quite the dream I lived last game where I wrecked an Ox1 player 15-0, but still a decent dream.

  Turn one, the ball went from Tater who positioned for countercharge, to Millstone, to Bushel, then to Thresher who used it to dodge forward rather than Bushel.  Then Thresher got the charge on Mallet, engaging Brick and Marbles both.  I wrapped on Mallet, damaging and KDing him, then KDing Brick, using both to dodge into range of the goal.  He scored easily and dodged out with Kneeslider.  I dodged to within 4'' of Tater and 6'' of Millstone.  The only model that wouldn't invite a countercharge or could counterattack pretty easy was Jackstraw if he did it right, but at that point, he was concerned about not getting enough momentum on a 5/0 model in cover to beat me in the momentum race, and then leave Honor out in the cold with Brick and Mallet both down.  So he held her back.

  I won the rolloff, Thresher popped legendary, moved up to just engage Harmony, Marbles and Mallet (who was already pretty hurt). He popped a harvest marker, killed Mallet, then Marbles, then with the last hit, put Harmony down with a little bit of damage (2 and a KD I think.  Non momentous).

  Brick tried to move in and put Thresher in the dirt while he was out of range of Millstone, but whiffed the roll and got KD in the counterattack.  I was afraid of him running Harmony away so Tater left the countercharge bubble and nearly killed her on the charge, finished her off, and used his last influence to KD Honor whom he had also engaged.  Honor tried to get into Thresher, but she couldn't hit very well, and Thresher got a 10 dice counter attack (legendary + Tater) that KD'd her and he dodged out of melee leaving her stranded on 3inf.  Jackstraw, Bushel, Buckwheat and Millstone piled in for crowdouts, a third of Brick's health, and I won the rolloff pretty handily.  Thresher activated, killed Brick and nearly got Honor.  Flint flailed hilariously against Thresher and Tater finished Honor.

  So, I feel like most of the issue was how aggressive I could play everything since Tater was there to wreck stuff and Millstone provided what amounts to Sturdy on everyone.  I actually didn't want you to go into Jackstraw.  I probably still would have won the rolloff, but Jackstraw actually goes down kinda easy and he's TAC3 so his counter attack sucks into Masons.  Honor would have been largely safe over there, especially since with Mallet almost dead, I had an easy 2pts there and I wanted to kill Harmony too. 

  The first turn goal went really well.  As much as you crowded up first turn and it worked for me later, I was concerned that you'd block my goal and that annoyed me a little since Thresher wants more INF than I can really give the team. That said, if you'd of blocked it up, I would have gone all in on beating someone up and either would have killed them, or left them on next to nothing so I could kill them first thing next turn, score and reposition.  So kind of a lose-lose.

  I feel like Goad on Marbles is your best bet, especially if you use cover to protect him from the countercharge.  Even if he gets charged, you can maaaaybe stand up and goad me anyways.  And if I damage you instead of KD, you get loved creature all turn which isn't a bad thing.  The actual issue is that I'll probably just kill Marbles so goad doesn't work anymore, so there is that.  Goad is an option if you can make it work though.

  I do think the kicking game is your best bet.  I have to chase the ball a bit more, and you're not as grouped up.  Mist causes a few more problems for me, though he does go down kind of easy once I catch him.  Still, Honor, Mallet, Flint, Mist, Marbles and whoever, either Brick or Harmony or Tower.

  Or Hammer. Hahahaha

 

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22 hours ago, Jedianakinsolo said:

Or Hammer. Hahahaha

I love Hammer. Get him in Protect Those Close aura, hopefully with Tooled Up on him, and he is going to go to town on someone. All that low, low defense... Just gotta protect him from those damned 2" melees (Knockback helps).

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35 minutes ago, S_A_T_S said:

I love Hammer. Get him in Protect Those Close aura, hopefully with Tooled Up on him, and he is going to go to town on someone. All that low, low defense... Just gotta protect him from those damned 2" melees (Knockback helps).

  I have more respect for Hammer than I used to, thanks to @Zarodis, but I still think he gets absolutely wrecked in a Thresher matchup.  Protect Those Close helps a lot, but Thresher's got the 1'' dodge on column 1, while Tater has a push on 2 and a double push on 4.  Sure, if you base him, it's a little tougher but I still don't see it working super well.  And yeah, the 2'' melee everywhere is a major problem for him.  I feel like if Hammer kills models, it'll be models I'm ok with him killing, or attempting to kill, like Jackstraw.  And at 3/1, he stands a pretty decent chance at being 2/0 pretty quick against Thresher and things go bad for him after that. 

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The 1" dodge is basically not relevant on thresher, as hammer has knockback  to dodge into base as long as he gets at least 1 success. He also has stoic to ignore the push from the CC. KD on the CC could be a problem for him, but it is definitely a positioning game. Thresher is definitely powerful, and if he is able to get ideal activations into hammer, it will go poorly for the masons player. That said, I think hammer has some pretty good game as he threatens thresher quite a bit as well. 

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I agree Hammer is probably going to struggle more into Thresher/Farmers in general, due to all the 2" and :KD:, but he is capable of doing a huge amount of damage if Tooled Up and Iron Fisted. The low DEF/ARM of Farmers means he also will have better odds of getting up to the :1::KD: result on his playbook without charging, so you can do damage while :KD:ing, giving him even more damage output. You'd have to use him as a nuke though, aiming to kill in his activation, cos the comeback is going to be bad if he doesn't.

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Has anyone tried using Granite as a tarpit against Tresher?

She should be pretty hard to kill in one Thresher activation and with vetHarmony behind her she could let vetHarmony take the damage in order to get into base with him with Between a rock... in order to get off a counter attack pulling him away from his support and maybe into the range of a charge he previously was just outside of.

Never mind the placement on the field, but I'm thinking something like this placement in order to offer up one model he can attack and that has a high probability of surviving Thresher. You could also place your counter charge models in such a way that Thresher cannot attack without triggering a counter charge. Nor sure that you want it as Brick has no pushes so even at 2" for the attack all he can do is push him out to 3" with knockback so Thresher can still attack. Maybe Concussion is the better option if you get enough successes. 

5a85da9cac8f8_ScreenShot2018-02-15at19_53_19.jpg.a7a9bf39ed12facdfc4df7266427d9c3.jpg

 

 

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7 hours ago, blueboyzcaptain said:

It's possible for Thresher to stand in a way to engage brick and granite while being out of line of sight of marbles in this picture. Something to keep in mind.

Sure, but then you have moved too many models into his threat range. 

The idea is to give him Granite as the only reachable target. That might mean you can’t move much forward and while you do not want the scrum on your starting line you do not want to give him to many targets either. 

I’d still play Honour to make sure you get last activation even if Thresher is kicking so there is a chance of winning initiative and taking him out at the start of turn 2. 

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Played Thresher again today. Standard Thresher lineup against Honour, Marbles, vet.Harmony, Brick, Granite and Mallet.
Moved both Granite and Brick up and put them in his charge lane so he had no other viable targets for his charge than the two of them and they are both pretty hard to take out for him in turn 1. So after denying him of a turn 1 kill he retreated back to his half of the pitch and I took the fight to him. Unfortunately Farmers heal like nothing else out there so it ended 12-9 to Thresher with him getting the takeout he needed on his last influence before I would have had a fairly good chance of scoring and ending the game.

vet.Harmony did great work by taking damage for Brick, Granite was a good tarpit and Brick was Brick.

Unfortunately taking both Brick and Granite create a tarpit means you have less options for the rest of the team. 

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