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Why aren't we talking about Kraken?

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43 minutes ago, Pending Forum Suspension said:

Singled out is only available to the team with A&G who is likely not in the same list as Kraken.

I run both constantly. That said "release the" is rarely a part of my game plan.

44 minutes ago, Pending Forum Suspension said:

If Kraken's playbook doesn't get some love is it really so unreasonable to ask for +1 to Tac so that he can try and do a little work on his own?

What's not to love about Kraken's PB? His awesome first two colums is largly the reason I take him. Way better than the likes of Brick or Casket. I mean damn, if you wanna see a sad PB...just look at Jac.

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I played Kraken after reading some of this thread the other day and was intrigued. I played corsair, tentacles, kraken, greyscales, sakana, siren1. Played against the BS 6 and won the game 12-8. Kraken dragged in a model and then was attacked by half the team and was taken off the pitch pretty quickly. This allowed corsair and greyscales to score quickly and then allow corsair to get back in the fight to kill some apprentices. Although he didn't do much, he was a distraction enough (i guess). My thought though is that maybe there is a better distraction, one that won't take two turns to get back to the scrum. 

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I've gone back and forth on kraken over time. In season one and two he was bad.  Jac did everything I wanted kraken to do better than kraken did, ie hold down the middle of the pitch and not die. His 2-1 defensive stat line was awful.  Worse tough hide seemed to just kept him alive to increase momentum generation for my opponent. But in season 3, his change to 3 def and reworked play book made him much better. I'll add his best rule is on vet siren's card. She becoming def 5 with escaping fate, and the scrum Corsair wants to set up brought him back into the pitch for me.

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Def 2+ and Arm 1 is roughly equivalent to Def 3+, they only really split apart at the low dice and high number of dice. All that he really gained this season was a double push.

As to vSiren I just don't see it, before the errata you rarely had to worry as she was set up as a damage missile so you would likely win the piece exchange making Kraken a nice extra not a necessity. Post-errata I'ld not bother taking her over he original incarnation even with Corsair

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21 hours ago, Zombiepops said:

Jac did everything I wanted kraken to do better than kraken did, ie hold down the middle of the pitch and not die.

I find this very unusual.

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5 hours ago, Banjulhu said:

Def 2+ and Arm 1 is roughly equivalent to Def 3+, they only really split apart at the low dice and high number of dice. All that he really gained this season was a double push.

As to vSiren I just don't see it, before the errata you rarely had to worry as she was set up as a damage missile so you would likely win the piece exchange making Kraken a nice extra not a necessity. Post-errata I'ld not bother taking her over he original incarnation even with Corsair

Vet siren was never about the damage for me, that was just an extra bonus. I've always taken her for dread gaze. It skews a ton of math and really can frustrate your opponent.

Also note kraken went from zero pushes in his playbook to having a double push on two. That's a big improvement. Especially in a list that wants to control the scrum.

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57 minutes ago, tehlon said:

I find this very unusual.

In season one, kraken couldn't do much with his playbook. He had no dodges or pushes, with drag on three and release all the way on 5. His counter attack would knock people down, but you often had very little momentum ( no going second momentum, and shark's team never generates a ton to begin with), and they're often generate  one just by hitting him (or more by charging kraken).  Jac had better stats defensively, so didn't print momentum, and his pushes or his heroic could disrupt a scrum to reduce the gang ups.  He had less hp but still had tough hide , two inch melee, and a kick stat that wasn't garbage.  My primary opponent at the time played butchers and I'm sure that had a some effect on my opinion of kraken.

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2 hours ago, Zombiepops said:

In season one, kraken couldn't do much with his playbook.

Yes, as I've main played fish since season 1, I am aware of these things. It just feels like to me maybe you were trying to have Kraken *be* Jac instead of being Kraken.

Especially funny you mention playbook given Jac's is hot garbage to this day. The momentous KD on 1 was the only result you ever really cared about. Keeps models from walking away and is a respectable CA. You rarely want to be stacking influence. Better to stick him in the middle and soak hits. Yes 1 DEF is a substantial difference, but so is 5 tough hide HP. Jac's heroic isn't even good for keeping the enemy centralized as it does exactly the opposite. I've never experienced Jac effectively control several players by his lonesome, even in season 1 days. He's always been far better closer to the edge where he says "You are not allowed within this bubble". Kraken lures folks in with the promise of momentum then you keep them there for a turn and a half. That's not changed and neither has Shark's game plan - Sacrifice board state for tempo.

That said, when I even ran a big guy, I preferred Fangtooth anyway (in season 1/2).

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34 minutes ago, tehlon said:

That said, when I even ran a big guy, I preferred Fangtooth anyway (in season 1/2).

I also preferred Fangtooth in Season 1 and 2. I think A&G have just been to solid a pick for the duration on season 3 for me to consider throwing him in my 10.

I'm hoping with we get a post steamcon update that give Kraken a little something, does something with Sharks's GB, and maybe gives Jac's playbook some attention. 

Kraken needs a little something for me. Some obtainable momentous damage, Tac 6, or moving to a 2/3 or 1/4 INF would do it for me. The rest of the team works fine enough for me (Sharks's GB irritates me) so I guess I'm fine if they don't buff him. I'm just not going to play a model that is behind the power curve. Hopefully we get Gutter with some killer momentous damage and it spotlights Kraken's deficiencies.

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5 hours ago, Pending Forum Suspension said:

 I think A&G have just been to solid a pick for the duration on season 3 for me to consider throwing him in my 10.

Por que no los dos? Their roles are totally different.

5 hours ago, Pending Forum Suspension said:

I'm just not going to play a model that is behind the power curve. 

I guess I just don't see it. I don't really think he needs anything. He does exactly what I want him to do perfectly fine. I can't immediately think of another big boy I'd rather have?

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2 hours ago, tehlon said:

I guess I just don't see it. I don't really think he needs anything. He does exactly what I want him to do perfectly fine. I can't immediately think of another big boy I'd rather have?

Except for @VanV of course

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9 hours ago, tehlon said:

Yes, as I've main played fish since season 1, I am aware of these things. It just feels like to me maybe you were trying to have Kraken *be* Jac instead of being Kraken.

Especially funny you mention playbook given Jac's is hot garbage to this day. The momentous KD on 1 was the only result you ever really cared about. Keeps models from walking away and is a respectable CA. You rarely want to be stacking influence. Better to stick him in the middle and soak hits. Yes 1 DEF is a substantial difference, but so is 5 tough hide HP. Jac's heroic isn't even good for keeping the enemy centralized as it does exactly the opposite. I've never experienced Jac effectively control several players by his lonesome, even in season 1 days. He's always been far better closer to the edge where he says "You are not allowed within this bubble". Kraken lures folks in with the promise of momentum then you keep them there for a turn and a half. That's not changed and neither has Shark's game plan - Sacrifice board state for tempo.

That said, when I even ran a big guy, I preferred Fangtooth anyway (in season 1/2).

Probably was playing him wrong.  I'd shelved him before the first errata.  I had much better success after swapping him out for Jac.  I never had any problem getting people to scrum up on Jac, though that was likely because it was early on and my meta hadn't really started to figure out footballing yet and all fell back on warmahordes tactics of charging too the middle and engaging in combat.  I won much than I probably should have by just running shark around playing football and bating the scrum in the middle.  I agree that Jac's playbook is weird, and kinda crappy.  I think Kraken's isn't a whole lot better now either (as I said his best rule isn't on his card), but he has a place and is useful in it.  I mean, I'm not comparing him to Sakana.  

 

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11 hours ago, tehlon said:

Por que no los dos? Their roles are totally different.

1 union player per 10 man. Point and click goal A&G made too much sense with Shark and "Knock your damn house down" A&G plays well with Corsair and Hag. They're totally different but you only get one at a time. I'd be lying if I said the 2 INF wasn't also a good portion of the draw for me. Foul odor is also more of a double edged sword than I'd like it to be. He's not bad by any means I just like what A&G bring to the table better.

Perhaps I'll try Kraken w/ A&G the next time I get a chance. Jac/Salt are a goal threat together and then probably bring Hag to keep things the way I want them in the scrum. Maybe swap Hag for Greyscales/Sakana.

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12 hours ago, Pending Forum Suspension said:

 They're totally different but you only get one at a time.

My b. Thought you were talking about Kraken.

My favorite Corsair team right now is Corsair, Salt, Kraken, Sakana, X, A&G. X can be Greyscales, Hag, or Siren 1 depending on matchup. I've gone 3-0, 2-2, and 4-1 with that team. So much flex!

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