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Saje

Wake up and smell the chains!

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2 hours ago, Selfy said:

You can't fool me! She's faked her death and is living on the Algarve.

lol Good one! She does have a hand poking out of the soil, maybe a "Carrie" comeback!

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Mind you, a gravestone is now needed that simply says 'RIP The Union'.

The Hat is dead. Rage is presumed dead (but is probably on the Algarve too). It's all over! :(

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I agree with what was said above (no Union in fluff, but playable as a guild). I said before the church splits off from the Union. If that happens, then the Union will need to get some new blood, which in turn doesn't follow the fluff.

I want to start Union as my second guild and I am waiting on the fence until Season 4 so see how things shake out.

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I wouldn't worry about waiting til season 4 - even if the Union get wiped out in the fluff they'll still be playable as a Guild. The Union were getting big though, so maybe this is the way of saying they're done with that guild, no more models needed. sBrisket, Benediction, Grace and Mist can become dual guild with the church.

TheUnion is dead, long live Blackheart!

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So, it's been remarkably quiet in here.

What do you guys think of yesterday's keynote with regards to the Union? There was mention of opening up design space for the Union now that SFG does not need to consider the impact on players playing in other guilds as well. But then again only 10 minor guilds have been announced which leads me to believe that the Union will not be a major guild partner to a minor guild....

 

Questions upon questions...

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I'm sad about it.  It will be a good thing if it leads to more in guild diversity but it feels like a cool list building mechanic has been removed.  I feel sorry for the people who bought one or two union players for their guild teams.

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7 minutes ago, MechMage said:

I'm sad about it.  It will be a good thing if it leads to more in guild diversity but it feels like a cool list building mechanic has been removed.  I feel sorry for the people who bought one or two union players for their guild teams.

Thing is, I have a fair share of Union for my guilds. I was already interested in upgrading to the full Union roster before the keynote. Now that actually seems like a valid option to still use the minis. I am - however - a little worried of the future state of the union in the long run. I am pretty sure that the guild will be fine for 2018 and that with 18 players available, flexibility will be on par with the other guilds.

I am just a little scared that there will be no development down the road and thought to ask impressions of more experienced players. The keynote seemed to be suggesting optimism and SFGs intent to use the potential of the Union not being tied to the other guilds anymore in terms of balancing...

I was really hoping for clarity from the keynote, so it's kind of a bummer that nobody said the words: "Union will remain a playable major guild. There will be no separate minor guild, as the roster is already quite large. We will be adding a mascot and another player down the road and might revisit the skills and stat cards to make the guild keep feeling fresh down the road." ....

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I am the tiniest bit sad, but mostly excited for the future of how the Union develops. The writing was on the wall for the end of Union as a subset of players for other guilds, so I am not at all surprised. The system proved problematic without a limit to Union players on the pitch, and limiting to 1 only meant that a tiny subset of Union models saw play outside of pure Union. Farmers have a significant cost in taking Union models that don't interact with harvest markers, Blacksmiths by design cannot have Union models, and I suspect the design of future guilds will only further push the boundary and make the previous use of the Union more and more obsolete.

The design space for the Union suffered from the need to have all of these pseudo-generalist players that would look appealing to completely different guilds. There are a lot of good models, but a dearth of interesting ones. I'm very excited for where they choose to push the aesthetics and mechanics of this mercenary group, and suspect we'll see a lot of model rebalances/reworks some next rules update/Season 4.

The keynote lacking clarity is mostly because it's not there for clarity - it's there to get you hyped about the exciting future of Guild Ball (and all of SFG's other games) that they'll reveal to us over the coming months. Not to mention they had to save something for SteamCon US. I'd expect a good amount of info out of the Q&A at SCUS.

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On 11/19/2017 at 10:09 AM, Zirenius said:

But then again only 10 minor guilds have been announced which leads me to believe that the Union will not be a major guild partner to a minor guild

Possibly because (as an idea) the Union will become one of the minor guilds ?

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17 hours ago, Akaleth said:

I am the tiniest bit sad, but mostly excited for the future of how the Union develops. The writing was on the wall for the end of Union as a subset of players for other guilds, so I am not at all surprised. The system proved problematic without a limit to Union players on the pitch, and limiting to 1 only meant that a tiny subset of Union models saw play outside of pure Union. Farmers have a significant cost in taking Union models that don't interact with harvest markers, Blacksmiths by design cannot have Union models, and I suspect the design of future guilds will only further push the boundary and make the previous use of the Union more and more obsolete.

The design space for the Union suffered from the need to have all of these pseudo-generalist players that would look appealing to completely different guilds. There are a lot of good models, but a dearth of interesting ones. I'm very excited for where they choose to push the aesthetics and mechanics of this mercenary group, and suspect we'll see a lot of model rebalances/reworks some next rules update/Season 4.

The keynote lacking clarity is mostly because it's not there for clarity - it's there to get you hyped about the exciting future of Guild Ball (and all of SFG's other games) that they'll reveal to us over the coming months. Not to mention they had to save something for SteamCon US. I'd expect a good amount of info out of the Q&A at SCUS.

The optimistic points you mention. actually sound just like what I am hoping for. After all this does open up interesting design possibilities. But yeah, the SFG seem to be hinting at their not yet being done with the Union, so let's see.

8 minutes ago, Major_Fokker said:

Possibly because (as an idea) the Union will become one of the minor guilds ?

Interesting point. That would require converting 2/3 of the Union roster to models for another major guild though... I don't know...

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6 minutes ago, Zirenius said:

Interesting point. That would require converting 2/3 of the Union roster to models for another major guild though... I don't know...

I can for now, at least point to Union in chains competition as a possible beginning to this happening already. 

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6 minutes ago, Major_Fokker said:

I can for now, at least point to Union in chains competition as a possible beginning to this happening already. 

I certainly agree on lore-terms, but the UiC actually generates new models. If the Union were to become a minor guild, it'd either be way too large with the currently existent lineup (which is partially dead in fluff), or those still alive might have to be "rebranded" to a different major guild. (Or the existing models would need to be phased out entirely, or SFG would need to freeze the current state of the Union as the "legacy Union" and go wild from there.) This is obviously all speculation and I'd definitely like seeing the current Union be partially remade into the Solthecian church and a minor "Union" - I just don't see what could be done with some of the existing models so far.

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2 minutes ago, Zirenius said:

I just don't see what could be done with some of the existing models so far.

I seriously doubt my idea would happen, because I'm lead to believe at SteamCon SFG did state the Union will carry on being allowed to be played as a Guild.

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Just now, Major_Fokker said:

I seriously doubt my idea would happen, because I'm lead to believe at SteamCon SFG did state the Union will carry on being allowed to be played as a Guild.

That's what I meant. The other thing they could do - make the actual church the minor guild and pick existing Solthecian union players to be double-guild. You could even narrow the roster of available union players down by making certain players unavailable when picking one of the church players. (AKA a character trait "Righteousness: This model may not be picked when model XXX is fielded." ) 

This way people could still play the old and true Union and would not need to feel left out of the entire minor guild development. But yeah, wild speculation with probably too many implications I am not seeing. :)

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