Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • Mako

      Union in Chains Pictures   10/14/2017

      With union in chains in full swing, everyone wants to upload a few pictures with their battle report (they're highly recommended to ensure your report is accepted as valid). Check the Union in Chains section for some handy advice (and user avatars) before you start!  
Sign in to follow this  
QuirkyAI

New Player - Understanding vGraves & Vileswarm

Recommended Posts

Hey everyone,

 

New Guild Ball player here. I'm trying to research the guilds and trying figure out where to take my Morticians group. Currently only have the "Master of Puppets" starter and the Butcher's "Bloody Master" starter. Really liking the Moriticians! So many interesting mechanics and unique characters! Through my research I've found the general role and "purpose" of each of the Moriticians figures except two - vGraves and Vileswarm.

Now, from my understanding oGraves in S3 is supposed to be a combat unit dishing out damage and bleed conditions while buffing himself and his allies with Tooled Up to keep bringing the pain. I imagine Scalpel, BP&M and Cosset are great partners for him as their combat ability would make excellent use of Tooled Up (a Crazy, Tooled Up Cosset attacking a target that Dirge is both engaging and has Singled Out sounds TERRIFYING!). And Dirge I can understand due to his synergy with Silence and Cosset and his ability to apply Singled Out.

However, vGraves and Vileswarm I am having a hard time understanding. vGraves has lost his ability to apply Bleed to his enemies on normal damage (now it's a Character Play). Gravedigger seems to be his big new addition, as he can gain extra VPs for the team (though apparently games rarely go longer than 3-4 turns so even if you get to gain that extra +1VP every turn it doesn't seem like much). Otherwise he's a mobile deployment station for Vileswarm and a buffer for it. Vileswarm I can see being useful for applying poison (but poison doesn't do that much), a movement penalty and that poison+DMG AOE on death. Taking all this into account it doesn't seem to do a whole lot other than apply a bit of damage, slow down a low DEF target on a charge and then die to spread the damage and poison around - not a whole lot for the 1VP you will be sacrificing to your opponent.

 

So my big question is - what is the purpose of vGraves and Vileswarm? What do they bring to the team and what do you think you need to do to get the most out of them (plays, strats, or favorite teammates)?

 

TL;DR: vGraves and Vileswarm, what do?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vgraves has a momentous KD+Gravedigger on his third column and can use it to set up takeouts reasonably well. Applying it, then killing people with someone like Cosset, Ghast or Minx is pretty relevant - if you only trigger it twice in a game that's the equivalent of getting enough free damage to take out an entire player, which is probably more than Tooled Up does.

 

The rest of the card could functionally be blank.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Gauntlet said:

Vgraves has a momentous KD+Gravedigger on his third column and can use it to set up takeouts reasonably well. Applying it, then killing people with someone like Cosset, Ghast or Minx is pretty relevant - if you only trigger it twice in a game that's the equivalent of getting enough free damage to take out an entire player, which is probably more than Tooled Up does.

 

The rest of the card could functionally be blank.

Thanks for the response! I don't think his KD+Gravedigger is momentous, but from what your saying it comes down to that +1VP farm - getting it twice is effectively a free additional kill. And you seem to suggest that he is a good pair for an assassin or combat specialist (e.g. Cosset or Ghast). Sounds pretty good. Anything else I could ask you to recommend?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, QuirkyAI said:

Thanks for the response! I don't think his KD+Gravedigger is momentous, but from what your saying it comes down to that +1VP farm - getting it twice is effectively a free additional kill. And you seem to suggest that he is a good pair for an assassin or combat specialist (e.g. Cosset or Ghast). Sounds pretty good. Anything else I could ask you to recommend?

Right now? Don't play him. He needs a buff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As @Gauntlet has said, vGraves and Vileswarm are subpar. They offer very little that Graves and Dirge don't:

- Dirge is faster, ignores Casket (and Fangtooth, if you feel like it)'s Rough Ground, has Singled Out, better Def and a shorter Playbook, and he can buff Cosset.

- Vileswarm usually deams more damage (including some more when he dies) and charge for 1 less inf, but still Rabid Animal is pretty much everything he offers.

- vGraves can ToolUp Vileswarm using Mom instead of Inf, but is otherwise inferior to Graves in almost every aspect. He does bring KD to the table, which Graves doesn't, but with a T on 1, I think Graves' playbook is still better... Plus vGraves doesn't have Scything blow or Crucial Artery.

+ Edit:

Actually, Vileswarm and Veteran Graves' main issue is that they take roster slots. Out of 10 slots, I can't find any room for either of them... Obulus, Scalpel, Dirge, B&M, Casket, Cosset, Ghast, Graves, Silence, Mist is my usual roster, and I can't see myself taking any two players out to add Vileswarm and vGraves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vileswarm can be fun to use in friendlies, trying to blow him up for best effect or seeing if he can push someone off the table. Competitively? Leave him at home.

VetGraves provides a KD if you don't have Ghast / want 2 fairly reliable KDs and with Arm2 can (sort of) hold the ball from non-charging strikers. As mentioned before Gravedigger + Cosset =3vp kills, which is always nice, or a 5vp Casket Time. Also makes mascots hunting a thing.

As also mentioned though, does all this at the loss of Tac, crucial artery, tooled up and any useful passive abilities / Heroics. His Synergy with Vileswarm is laughably bad.

I've used him to great success on occasion but I always feel that he is like Bonesaw. He has 1 trick ( Gravedigger vs Dervish) and if it works you're golden. If it doesn't then he doesn't do much else and takes a slot a better, more versatile player ( oGraves vs Mist) could have filled.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe I'm just being optimistic, but I think the Vet Graves + Casket & Cosset is worth exploring. However, as you say, his synergy with Vileswarm is pretty bad so I'd rather just bring Dirge to give Cosset that free tooled up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't really play Cosset, but wouldn't you just kill Dirge if he engaged a model that cosset could get into?  Especially since there is no real penalty to killing him anymore with dark doubts being really only a 1 MP loss

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, outofcheeserror said:

I don't really play Cosset, but wouldn't you just kill Dirge if he engaged a model that cosset could get into?  Especially since there is no real penalty to killing him anymore with dark doubts being really only a 1 MP loss

Killing Dirge is really annoying.  He's defense 5 and only worth 1 VP.  Very often not worth the influence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I recently got vGraves and the rats, mainly to finish my roster. With that being said I would be ok with them getting linked. May not be competitive but it would be a lot of fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×