Jump to content
malladin.ben

Efficiency Butchers

Recommended Posts

Got time for a more detailed write up:

Game 1 vs alchemists.

Opponent said he was mainly a butchers player bringing alchemists because the point of the event was to test out GICs and no one else was bringing alchemists. He drafted an unusual smoke list with flask, calculus, mercury, venin and vKat and used the GIC that gives you extra damage from conditions.

I took Fillet (knowing I'd need speed against alchemists), Truffles, Boar, Rage, vBrisket and vOx. Potential INF input/equivalent output: 11/22. I used the cheap charge GIC.

I received so I set up for a vBrisket goal that would give my efficiency list a mighty 13/24 input/equivalent output. I fetched the ball with vOx and passed the ball along the back line without going too far forward and keeping spread out to try and minimise thecswme the AOEs could cause. Unfortunately I missed two of the kicks down the line so only had 1 MP for brisket's shot and the 3 dice shot missed and the ball scattered in front of the goal to where venin could pick it back up.

I can't remember too many specifics of the game other than we both had some iffy dice at times. Smoke's condition game with watch the world burn is horrible to behold, and it really brings venin into contention (7 damage in the maintenance phase is not something you want to suffer very often). Brisket went try try and recover that ball from Smoke, but couldnt even manage a tackle. Rage and Boar were able to keep vKat on a leash by concussing him a few times, but intensify really hurt me this game, and flask chipped in as much as vKat. He played Fillet very well, keeping her away from the ball and spreading out so 1st could only eat 1 model a turn, but vOx managed to finish off a returning flask at the top of a turn. But despite the owner being up, it was a pass from boar for a vOx snapshot that won me the game. I won 12-6 by 5 TOs (flask twice) and a goal to a goal and a takeout. (IIRC, it might have been 12/8 with two takeouts, but I can't remember who they were if it was more thsn just Rage)

I rarely used the GIC (forgot about for the first half) and blood thirst would have really helped. He rarely counter attacked, too, so crushing force wouldn't have had much impact either. Watch The world Burn really forced me to spend all my mom on clearing conditions and it made for a really rough game and smoke felt like she really had a strong condition damage game, but in the end it wasn't enough on it's own, although concussing vKat definitely helped here, as if he'd been able to get the TO and witness me it would have been a different story.

I'm not sure I was too happy with how the list worked in this game. There was too little INF going around that any given to Brisket meant less for Fillet. If I'd scored that goal it might've been different, and I had thought about using brisket to quick time boar out of lockdown, sjecwas always in a different part of the pitch. Much as she brings efficiency, she's too hungry and too narrowly focused for this style of play.

Game 2 was vs Masons. He received and took hammer, marbles, tower, flint, mallet and lucky. I took Ox (his legendary is strong vs masons), Truffles, meathook, boar, rage and shank. I took crushing force and he took built to last.

Inf input to output: 11/20 (Although f you cup t the "free" effects ox and Meathook bring it's possibly higher.

I kicked with boar and then held him back to last activation, tooled up and though skinned. Unfortunately hammer had killed him before he Got to activate, so that was perhaps a bit optimistic. The tough skin did mean thatchammer had to put all of his INF I to killing boar and didn't get the 6 VP until the start of turn 2. Ox survives the other 4 INF and returned fire with his legendary, taking out hammer and sprinting up the pitch to make his bubble relevant. Rage, shank and Meathook finished off lucky and Mallet between them, so there was only flint with the ball to worry about in turn 3. Meathook was able to hit her tackle 2 dmg result twice vs flint so got tbe ball off him butvdidntbhsve enoigh inf left ti kivk snd i forgit about her heroic. Unfortunately I had a rush of blood when I saw hammer had returned in range of boar. Unfortunately I forgot I'd left boar without INF so when I charged in, built to last and and the 2hp heal from crushing force meant I couldn't take out hammer, or get to a point where he couldn't do similar to me, even it out so his buffs. With that and flint being able to get the ball back from meathook and score meant I threw the game away. Especially considering a tackle in the counter attack from meathook prevented him sprinting and he needed all 5" of his jog to get into goal range, if I'd remembered to sanguine pool him I'd have been able to stop the goal. What made it even more frustrating flint would have died to bleed in maintenance phase and shank could have easily scored a snapback goal if I'd had another activation.

It finished 12-6 but the result cold havecrasily been the reverse if I'd not been a Muppet. I liked this list a lot more than the fillet list. Boar and Rage keep the pressure off Shank and allow him more room to roam the pitch doing his own thing. Meathook and Ox work really well to set up boar, shank and even Rage (who gains the benefit of Ox's legendary armour nerf and hooked), and you can flexibly spend the 5 or 6 remaining Inf between then as the game needs. Plus if you count Ox's aura as tooled up for X teammates, and hooked as so edging you might otherwise spend an inf to achieve, you can be up as high 27 INF output in this list.

Crushing Force was irrelevant agains this list that was defensive stancing everything, which was saving him between 4 and 8 damage each turn.

I'll revisit game 3 later, this has taken an age to write up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Game 3 was against Farmers: Grange, peck, Tater, Harrow, Windle and Benny. I took Ox Truffles, shank, Boar, rage and tenderiser (I felt the extra 2" melee zone might be handy against the farmers). He took the 5hp heal card and I took blood thirst be use I'd not used it yet.

I received and tried to hang back. I contemplated a first turn goal with shank, but the pass to him failed, so I couldn't dodge him up to make the range. He came right into me with Grange and Tater, coming deep to negate tenderiser's countercharge. A combination of constitution and 5hp heals really helped him out in the scrum,  and he took out boar. Rage charged out to get to Windle and concussed him into irrelevance for a turn or 2. At some point, though Windle got to act before rage and Rage went down for a 3vp take out whilst I was able to get that goal with Shank. I eventually chewed through tater and windle, but lost a 5-stacked Ox to grange. Ox and Boar came back on and finished off Windle, whilst Shank went and robbed the ball from peck. I was able to win first activation and shank bounced off harrow to score and close out the game 12-7.

Rage kept Windle quite for a while, but tenderiser did sod all, whilst meathook woukd have had a field day against all those low armour models, and her momentous damage-push results would have really helped out. Shank was the silent star of this game with his two goals whilst the others struggled for dominance in a tight scrum.

Blood Thirst kept Ox alive a little longer, but didn't really do much else. Crushing force would have been golden in this game as the momentum race was often tight and he made lots if counter attacks. The 5hp heals were really annoying to deal with and really helped him out in the scrum.

From this game I learnt that tenderiser isn't the right choice, Meathook really is, and shank is as good as I thought. From a GIC pov, blood thirst is only really worth it against condition teams (brewers, alchemists and possibly hunters) and the 2hp heal is a big penalty, so maybe the new crushing force is okay(? perhaps needs a bit more testing before in can say this fully)

Cheerio, 

Ben

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, kaladorm said:

Great write-up. More impressive as it looks like you did this from a mobile device 😂

Our escalation league is over now so I'll be back to having a few games with Butchers, so I'll report my findings as well

Lol, yes it was from my mobile! Should have just got the laptop out, it probably would have saved me an hour or two!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@malladin.ben what do you think about Princess jogging around looking to get the Tac bonus from loved creature? As long as you don't give her any INF she's not bad at efficency. Do you go Truffles because it's just more of a nuisance?

edit: My mobile is shite! It won't let me tag people or like posts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Part of my reasoning to play this team is to get out of my Boiler crutch, so I deliberately haven't considered Princess over Truffles to stop me thinking about therefore adding Boiler into the team. having said that, I've had so many good times with Truffles it's really hard not to take her in this list anymore. The pig's real strength is in the shear amount of damage a well timed charge can do for a single influence. A typical def 4 arm 1 model that's been hooked and inside 4" of Ox during his legendary turn will be def 3/0 for Truffles' charge. With a couple of gang-ups that's a 65% chance of wrapping to the full book and a 38% chance of getting the double wrap. At +2 dmg that can be a whopping 13 dmg and 3 MP! Even without the gang ups you can wrap to the 2nd column 57% of the time against such a model and deal 5dmg and a KD for 2MP. That'll set up any of the other models in your team nicely. But at the very least 1 INF for a KD and a MP is not a bad deal at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I ran Ox, Truffles, Shank, Rage, Boar and Meathook today. Ended 12-6 against Masons but I really didn't 'feel' the list. I'm still not convinced by Rage, and think I would've preferred Minx. When I got the charges off it was great, but the list didn't feel like it had enough setup to allow this more than once before scrumming (though granted, playing vs Brick/Marbles meant a lot of careful positioning). I think I would've change Rage for Minx or possibly vBrisket, maybe even going for that first turn goal. I love Ox, but really missed having Boiler especially against Masons. A better team vs Masons would have been Ox, Princess, Boiler, Meathook, Shank and Boar, but then I'm not testing our new style of play much here.

Maybe that old Fillet list with Truffles, Boar, vOx, vBrisket and Meathook would've been a better pick against the Masons

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, kaladorm said:

I ran Ox, Truffles, Shank, Rage, Boar and Meathook today. Ended 12-6 against Masons but I really didn't 'feel' the list. I'm still not convinced by Rage, and think I would've preferred Minx. When I got the charges off it was great, but the list didn't feel like it had enough setup to allow this more than once before scrumming (though granted, playing vs Brick/Marbles meant a lot of careful positioning). I think I would've change Rage for Minx or possibly vBrisket, maybe even going for that first turn goal. I love Ox, but really missed having Boiler especially against Masons. A better team vs Masons would have been Ox, Princess, Boiler, Meathook, Shank and Boar, but then I'm not testing our new style of play much here.

Maybe that old Fillet list with Truffles, Boar, vOx, vBrisket and Meathook would've been a better pick against the Masons

Hey if it's not working for you then don't use it. I find it an interesting and challenging way to play. However, if you want to try again, the trick to getting the most out of the list and not getting tied down in a scrum is to force the scrum pn your terms. You want it closer to your goal than theirs. Then you want to try and feed them boar and rage as easy kills. A wiser man than I once said that a takeout should be viewed as a repositioning opportunity, and if you can get the scrum to form up in the right place, Rage and Boar can make good use of that opportunity.

Further, if you're stuck in the scrum, Rage and Boar are still getting 2 attacks from 1 inf each, so your team is still functioning like a 13inf team with Ox. That's not a fun scrum for your opponents to be in. It may seem like you're getting less value out of these models, but the trick is realise that you're still getting adequate value out of them just from berserk.

And remember the damage that 3 INF on Meathook and Shank in Ox's - with crowd outs and hooked shank will probably hit his 3dmg result, and Meathook gets an extra dmg from smell blood, so 12 dmg each is quite reliable. Then you've probably got 3 or 4 on Ox, too. When it scrums up it's the rest if the team's turn to shine. And once you've killed a few models it's going to free Boar and Rage back up again.

Use the desire people have to the these models down as a way to get people into the positions you want them in. If you include the KD missile that is truffles, there's three models they need to lock down, so don't make it easy for them. Spread them out a bit so that they can't just pick them both down with a 2" melee zone (and remember that Boar can usually escape a 2" melee zone of he's at Its limits, so a 4.5" gap should be enough).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doing the 'effective influence' maths does always help with perspective.

I struggled to decide whether to go Rage first to setup bleed for Meathook, or Meathook first to setup hooked for Rage. It was usually situation specific which I went with first.

The scrum was definitely where I wanted it, being just over the halfway line on my opps side. Shank also did his job of getting a goal in as well (I realise now I like mobile beaters like Fillet, Scalpel, and Shank, hence also Minx).

I want to try my Fillet list I mentioned again as it feels much more like a 'normal' list with hyper-efficiency being the bonus on top. Part of my struggle with the Ox list may have been predetermined by the fact that I already felt uncomfortable going into it. I also got relatively little use out of Ox and his aura in this game compared to normal but that is because of how the game played out rather than a criticism of the list.

In summary, more testing required for a conclusion :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, kaladorm said:

Funny, I was happy up front and able to get Shank to pick off any ice sponged players ;-)

Did he manage to do that? I tend to find people come back on too many hp for that nowadays.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, malladin.ben said:

Did he manage to do that? I tend to find people come back on too many hp for that nowadays.

Well to be fair it was Marbles..... he took out Flint, snagged the ball and got a goal on the way, but I felt much happier having Ox up there pressuring the Masons position. By committing to the fight it meant they couldn't get an easy goal as well so I actually felt safer having them tied up in their half. It was (B-M) 0-4 on T2, 2-6 on turn 3, and 11-6 on turn 4 I think

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love this thread. Boar has always been and will always be my favorite player for his efficiency so I'm happy to see that I'm not the only one who has tried to Boar-out their team. 

Has anyone tried this lineup:

Ox, Truffles, Boar, Rage, Shank & Vet Brisket?

I love me some Meathook but Vet Brisket fits more in the theme of efficiency with her reduced charging. 

Total INF = 11
Standard INF placement:
Ox: 4
Truffles: 1
Boar: 1
Rage: 1
Vet Brisket: 1

Shank: 3

I haven't tried Minx over Rage because I love the 1INF for 3-4 MOM trades that Rage brings. If Vet Brisket is engaged I'd probably give her 0 and move her extra one to Ox.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×