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Farmer GIC Theory Thread

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This is not a case of stacking though, you don’t have a single model with several instances of an effect, you have several models all with the same rule. So every model with Lend a hand should reduce tac as normal. Otherwise you shouldn’t be able to suffer multiple crowdouts or gangups either.

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1 hour ago, Falkman said:

This is not a case of stacking though, you don’t have a single model with several instances of an effect, you have several models all with the same rule. So every model with Lend a hand should reduce tac as normal. Otherwise you shouldn’t be able to suffer multiple crowdouts or gangups either.

Gang up and crowd outs are explicitly spelled out in the rules for generating die pools.  Neither is a play or trait.

I'm sure there was a thread in the rules forum about stacking Sentinel that makes it clear that it doesn't.  This wouldn't be any different.

Edit- found it.

 

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I don't think it would stack on grange multiple times. My main concern is grange lists tend to have big scrums with multiple planters involved. If everyone is giving double crowd outs it seems extremely punishing for other teams.  I don't think thats necessarily too strong but its certainly a thing. 

 

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On 10/31/2017 at 4:29 PM, LeadDiceandBeers said:

Multiple instances of Lend a Hand do not stack.

So you are saying that if there is a scrum with Tater, Grange, Harrow, and someone attacks Tater and are being crowded out by Grange and harrow, instead of -4 tac (from harrow and grange crowd out and multiple lend a hand) it should be -3 tac (grange with lend a hand and not counting Harrows)

No one thinks Grange would get lend a hand twice, but if both Grange and Harrow’s lend a hand wouldn’t stack together then the card seems basically useless, unintuitive, and a waste of a card.

My original concern was that in a proper grange list and positioning it’d be almost impossible to attack most models without suffering a lot of negatives to tac. But that’s obviously why someone would take this.

 

Edited for cleaning up grammar. Phone typing is awful. 

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8 hours ago, Mr.G said:

So you are saying that if there is a scrum with Tater, Grange, Harrow, and someone attacks Tater and are being crowded out by Grange and harrow, instead of -4 tac (from harrow and grange crowd out and multiple lend a hand) it should be -3 tac (grange with lend a hand and not counting Harrows)

 

no no one thinks Grabe would get lend a hand twice, but if both Grange and Harrow’s lend a hand wouldn’t stack together then the card seems basically useless, unintuitive, and a waste of a card.

 

My original concern was that in a proper grange list and positioning it’d be almost impossible to attack most models without suffering a lot of negatives to tac. But that’s obviously why someone would take this.

It effectively means applying an additional -1 TAC penalty a lot easier (and lets a Thresher List have it at all) - I'd say that's worth a card choice, especially considering defensive tech is actually one of the Farmers major weaknesses...

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But what I read is "When this model causes an enemy model to suffer the crowding out penalty..."

So when I read "this model" it's not like it is an aura or another character play, it is a character trait. Wouldn't that mean that every model individually applies this affect?

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18 hours ago, FearLord said:

It effectively means applying an additional -1 TAC penalty a lot easier (and lets a Thresher List have it at all) - I'd say that's worth a card choice, especially considering defensive tech is actually one of the Farmers major weaknesses...

I would disagree with that immensely. Especially when you consider that it lowers the healrate and the farmers best defensive tech is the high amount of health. Healing is an important part of that. I would argue that Spirit of Cooperation now gives the weakest benefit and reduces the heal rate. I can't imagine why anyone would bother to take it.

 

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48 minutes ago, Mr.G said:

I would disagree with that immensely. Especially when you consider that it lowers the healrate and the farmers best defensive tech is the high amount of health. Healing is an important part of that. I would argue that Spirit of Cooperation now gives the weakest benefit and reduces the heal rate. I can't imagine why anyone would bother to take it.

 

It's probably best used against captains like Shark and Midas who don't deal a lot of damage but can abuse the Farmers' low armor and defense on a few key models to gain a lot of mobility.  If you scrum up and it takes you from 2 crowd outs to 3 or 3 to 4, it might take an extra attack or two to dodge out or prevent the player from getting the knock down, securing a counter.  That's obviously best case scenario but I think the scenario does exist, as narrow as it is, in which Spirit of Cooperation is the best GiC to choose.

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I actually just played it (spirit of cooperation - thresher, buckwheat, harrow, millstone, jackstraw, tater) tonight vs shark (salt, jac, oSiren, sakana, greyscales) using slippery fishes.  Had the gane gone to plan (ball on millstone on obstruction with harrow and jackstraw locking approach vectors) literally no one on his team would have been able to get a playbook T without a charge.  However dice being what they are, this scenario never came to play and so the card mostly allowed me to dictate positioning specifically so my opponent could avoid the double crowd out from a single model.  It is also surprisingly useful at blunting counter attacks if Straw can teleport into a model after it has activated before a beater gets to work (in this case mostly affected millstone being able to do solid work on the damage front since she is usually very vulnerable to <<).  

 

Otoh, most of his team having a 3" dodge in 1 hit or 4" UM or 6" WDTG made the heal 2 feel right.  

 

As mechmage said, not overwhelming, but I certainly don't need a heal 5 vs Shark fish with bonus healing on being taken out.  The two harvest markers could have been useful in freeing up my (kicking) turn 1 activations but I don't think The heal 4 or the markers would have had any more impact than the cooperation card.

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