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GIC General Theory Thread 

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Arbitrary hip-shot ranking system ahoy ahoy! :)

Lead to Gold - Smoke gold, so easy VPs. 2HR is low but Smoke can close a game out in 2 turns with this. Super good. Rating - A

Chemical Resistance - Anti Alchemist tech and Katalyst synergy & 4 HR is good in new meta. Rating - B

Watch the World Burn - Additional DMG is nice, helps against healing aura teams, Smoke will enjoy this but will probably choose Lead to Gold. Not amazing but 3 HR standard. Rating - C (downgraded after seeing other GIC)

Strike Right Here - Ferrite/Iron bait. Anvil and Sledge also an option and Furnace can engage many models for either Iron or Sledge. Seems very good. Rating - B

Tough As Nails - Good defence tech for faction, ARM 2/3 will mitigate KD effect and 4 HR. Rating - B+

Passing The Mantle - Allows double team Legendary and pushing an opportune model to 0/+2. Situational, 3 HR is standard and hard to know if will use. Rating - C

Take It To 'Em - Seems good for Butchers, discourages players hanging around goal or coming on near goal as VP bait. 2 HR painful. Rating - C

Blood Thirst - Shift in healing to punching leaving MOM for conditions or going first. Will leave some models vulnerable but others better off. Rating - C

Tactical Elimination - Powerful VP bonus for stopping goal runs and ball being dropped offers Butchers options they wanted anyway to pick it up. 3 HR is also good (for Butchers). Seems contest between Take It but this seems a better default. Rating - C+

Bring It On - 5 HR? In Brewers? Jeebus. VP bonus harder to setup but Brewers love a scrum so not that unlikely. Rating - A

Happy Hour - Harder goals for both sides. Hmmm. Feels like Brewers with their weaker values will be hit more. But it's a sort of goalie for Brewers. 4 HR is nice. Rating - B

Another Round - Excellent synergy for faction. 4 HR is good. Rating - A

Clockwork Perfection - Standard HR. Nice +1 VP but situational. Rating - C

We Can Rebuild Them - 2 HR is not great but guess what +2 Health every turn so sort of mitigates that. More defence tech for a tough team. Synergy with Reanimate is insane. Rating - B

Tracer Rounds - Stupid good for 3HR. First ranged shots auto-boosted means MOM for second shot or just better accuracy. Encourages gunline play. Awful decision but very good for Cogs. No downside. Rating - A

Spirit of Cooperation - 4 HR and nice team synergy. Only applies to Windle now really but when other box released will be excellent with Tater. Rating - B+

Eat Hearty - 5 HR and bonus health after take outs. Nice default. Rating - B

Healthy Living - 3 HR is ouchy (for Farmers) but there is some nice TAC play here. Synergy with Thresher Legendary, and nice with a Grange team pumping out markers. Rating - C

Football Champions - Better kicks are better for new standard HR. Rating - D

Slippery Fishes - Ignore KD DEF effect and 4 HR. Seems good. Rating - B

Deflection - Nice for when your dice screw up but 2 HR might be too brutal. Rating - C

Bait the Trap - Free Snared is good and will help make Seenah playable but 2HR in a glass-cannon faction is awful. Extremely unlikely VP reaping option seems typical of weird Hunters design team ideas. Rating - C

Go to Ground - 4 HR is good. Free CA is ok I guess to save MOM. Rating - B

Nature's Bounty - Still laughable. Too specific in application & benefit makes this card impossible to choose from in 19/20 games. Awful - Rating - F

Rapid Response - Interesting move options (bounce from targets, move into goal range etc) but situational. Rating - C

Built to Last - 4 HR and excellent defensive values makes charge against Masons insanely bad as long as MOM. Good. Rating - B

Brick House - Situational but many rucks happen around the centre. Still will require setup  (and 3" isn't that flexible) and I don't like that it requires measuring to a point that isn't usually marked. Rating - D

Inheritance Tax - Tricky to use. Allocate not Gain. Not a massive bonus but 3 HR is sort of standard. Rating - D

Near Death Experience - Wording is awful - is this 2 separate TABs or 1 TAB for both? Assuming two separate TABs, a bit heavy on MOM. Single TAB - interesting, but wording should be different to make clear. Rating - C

Death Comes to All - 4 HR and pretty likely in TO games. Seems a nice default. Rating - B

Most Wanted - silly with vRage. Basically getting 3 VP a turn for doing what they do. 2 HR is pretty bad but vRage is taking YOU out so offence is his defence anway. Rage often finishes turns with 12+ MOM so this hardly dents that. Rating - A

Pirate's Ransom - A nice insulation for losing roll off and 3 HR is standard. Rage will take Most Wanted though. Rating - C

Raise the Stakes - 2 HR is a steep price for something MOM gives you anyway. Rage won't care (MOM will probably give it anyway and he'll take Most Wanted). Blackheart will hate the 2 HR. Rating - E

'Scientific' Guild Ranking in GIC based on Rating:

Best: Brewers

Worst: Hunters

Full List:

1st Brewers

2nd= Alchemists & Engineers

4th= Blacksmiths & Farmers

6th Butchers

7th= Fish, Masons, Morts, Union

11th Hunters

Scientific analysis shows design team think Hunters are the best guild and need taking down a peg and that Engineers and Alchemists are struggling...um what happens in your play test games guys?? Seriously. *roll eyes*

I look forward to Field Test of these. Thanks for releasing all :)

 

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Yeah Most Wanted seems stupid for vRage. Make a killy captain team even better? Make Mascots worth 2 VP? Really bad. But then the other 2 cards are so awful you can only take Most Wanted. Lols. 

I agree - I do NOT like the +1 VPs now being all over the place. Makes Bear Hug EVEN worse by comparison and makes games start to get distorted by who has the best +1VP card. I think abilities should change, not the reward. TO +1 VPs are bad because they are classic win-more problem. If vRage is in the driving seat, Most Wanted just makes him win faster. Seems...not a good idea.

 

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I am excited to try these out.  It is so hard to see how they will play out. 

I can only speak as an inexperienced Morticians and Hunters player ( it's hard to see the others for what they are without knowing the guilds that well).

I think Inheritance tax is the best one for Morticians. I almost always get a take out turn two on activation 1. Free influence is gold. Not super powerful but not garbage in my opinion.

The Hunters one is situational. The default card will be Go To Ground, unless there is rough ground in a super useful place for Hearne to abuse. I just wish Natures Bounty let you pick any piece of terrain to be a forest so it would not trash in most games. 

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Just now, Ironprice said:

I think Inheritance tax is the best one for Morticians. I almost always get a take out turn two on activation 1. Free influence is gold. Not super powerful but not garbage in my opinion.

 

First off go Morts, but secondly it's not exactly free. It is allocated, so you have to risk that you will get the takeout and not max a player out on influence. The wording should be changed from allocate to assign or give, so a player could have OVER their max influence. The way it is now will be a very risk reward type of deal.

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2 minutes ago, DeathlyDrew said:

First off go Morts, but secondly it's not exactly free. It is allocated, so you have to risk that you will get the takeout and not max a player out on influence. The wording should be changed from allocate to assign or give, so a player could have OVER their max influence. The way it is now will be a very risk reward type of deal.

That's what the word "gain" is used for in a few occasion.

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I agree that it should be gain. 

I have only tested it in 2 games so far, but I got 2 extra influence in the first game and one in the second. It allowed me to throw out a Heavy Burden on Midas after Casket timing Mercury who I left on 2HP turn 1.

It's not bonkers good, but it's not terrible.

 

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I think you're undervaluing Clockwork Perfection and We Can Rebuild Them. Deflection I think is "Great" for Shark and "Ehhh" for Corsair (and that Slippery Fishes is the opposite - not actually that good with Shark teams, but excellent with Corsair).

I also think you're overvaluing Tracer Rounds and Healthy Living - TR because it puts list-building restraints on the Engineers team but is great in certain situations, and Healthy Living because forward (where you tend to want TAC bonuses) is probably the place you're least likely to get the bonus. I hadn't considered Millstone though.

I think Bait the Trap isn't "godly" - it's merely good. You don't benefit from it turn one, for one thing, and if there are already models on board with Snared it's less valuable (since the benefit appears to primarily be "Fahad and Seenah are on on the first activation").

I'm not sure Near Death Experience gives you a free TAB - I think it lets you both clear conditions and heal a single model using two separate TABs, which while giving you some flexibility isn't exactly great in most matchups.

Raise the stakes is not great. In Union, you're probably swimming in Momentum. RTS is bad.

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2 hours ago, EpicChris said:

Arbitrary hip-shot ranking system ahoy ahoy! :)

Lead to Gold - Smoke gold, so easy VPs. 2HR is low but Smoke can close a game out in 2 turns with this. Super good. Rating - A

Chemical Resistance - Anti Alchemist tech and Katalyst synergy & 4 HR is good in new meta. Rating - B

Watch the World Burn - Additional DMG is nice, helps against healing aura teams, Smoke will enjoy this but will probably choose Lead to Gold. Not amazing but 3 HR standard. Rating - C (downgraded after seeing other GIC)

Strike Right Here - Ferrite/Iron bait. Anvil and Sledge also an option and Furnace can engage many models for either Iron or Sledge. Seems very good. Rating - B

Tough As Nails - Good defence tech for faction, ARM 2/3 will mitigate KD effect and 4 HR. Rating - B+

Passing The Mantle - Allows double team Legendary and pushing an opportune model to 0/+2. Situational, 3 HR is standard and hard to know if will use. Rating - C

Take It To 'Em - Seems good for Butchers, discourages players hanging around goal or coming on near goal as VP bait. 2 HR painful. Rating - C

Blood Thirst - Shift in healing to punching leaving MOM for conditions or going first. Will leave some models vulnerable but others better off. Rating - C

Tactical Elimination - Powerful VP bonus for stopping goal runs and ball being dropped offers Butchers options they wanted anyway to pick it up. 3 HR is also good (for Butchers). Seems contest between Take It but this seems a better default. Rating - C+

Bring It On - 5 HR? In Brewers? Jeebus. VP bonus harder to setup but Brewers love a scrum so not that unlikely. Rating - A

Happy Hour - Harder goals for both sides. Hmmm. Feels like Brewers with their weaker values will be hit more. But it's a sort of goalie for Brewers. 4 HR is nice. Rating - B

Another Round - Excellent synergy for faction. 4 HR is good. Rating - A

Clockwork Perfection - Standard HR. Nice +1 VP but situational. Rating - C

We Can Rebuild Them - 2 HR is not great but guess what +2 Health every turn so sort of mitigates that. More defence tech for a tough team. Synergy with Reanimate is insane. Rating - B

Tracer Rounds - Stupid good for 3HR. First ranged shots auto-boosted means MOM for second shot or just better accuracy. Encourages gunline play. Awful decision but very good for Cogs. No downside. Rating - A

Spirit of Cooperation - 4 HR and nice team synergy. Only applies to Windle now really but when other box released will be excellent with Tater. Rating - B+

Eat Hearty - 5 HR and bonus health after take outs. Nice default. Rating - B

Healthy Living - 3 HR is ouchy (for Farmers) but there is some nice TAC play here. Synergy with Thresher Legendary, and nice with a Grange team pumping out markers. Rating - C

Football Champions - Better kicks are better for new standard HR. Rating - D

Slippery Fishes - Ignore KD DEF effect and 4 HR. Seems good. Rating - B

Deflection - Nice for when your dice screw up but 2 HR might be too brutal. Rating - C

Bait the Trap - Free Snared is good and will help make Seenah playable but 2HR in a glass-cannon faction is awful. Extremely unlikely VP reaping option seems typical of weird Hunters design team ideas. Rating - C

Go to Ground - 4 HR is good. Free CA is ok I guess to save MOM. Rating - B

Nature's Bounty - Still laughable. Too specific in application & benefit makes this card impossible to choose from in 19/20 games. Awful - Rating - F

Rapid Response - Interesting move options (bounce from targets, move into goal range etc) but situational. Rating - C

Built to Last - 4 HR and excellent defensive values makes charge against Masons insanely bad as long as MOM. Good. Rating - B

Brick House - Situational but many rucks happen around the centre. Still will require setup  (and 3" isn't that flexible) and I don't like that it requires measuring to a point that isn't usually marked. Rating - D

Inheritance Tax - Tricky to use. Allocate not Gain. Not a massive bonus but 3 HR is sort of standard. Rating - D

Near Death Experience - Wording is awful - is this 2 separate TABs or 1 TAB for both? Assuming two separate TABs, a bit heavy on MOM. Single TAB - interesting, but wording should be different to make clear. Rating - C

Death Comes to All - 4 HR and pretty likely in TO games. Seems a nice default. Rating - B

Most Wanted - silly with vRage. Basically getting 3 VP a turn for doing what they do. 2 HR is pretty bad but vRage is taking YOU out so offence is his defence anway. Rage often finishes turns with 12+ MOM so this hardly dents that. Rating - A

Pirate's Ransom - A nice insulation for losing roll off and 3 HR is standard. Rage will take Most Wanted though. Rating - C

Raise the Stakes - 2 HR is a steep price for something MOM gives you anyway. Rage won't care (MOM will probably give it anyway and he'll take Most Wanted). Blackheart will hate the 2 HR. Rating - E

'Scientific' Guild Ranking in GIC based on Rating:

Best: Brewers

Worst: Hunters

Full List:

1st Brewers

2nd= Alchemists & Engineers

4th= Blacksmiths & Farmers

6th Butchers

7th= Fish, Masons, Morts, Union

11th Hunters

Scientific analysis shows design team think Hunters are the best guild and need taking down a peg and that Engineers and Alchemists are struggling...um what happens in your play test games guys?? Seriously. *roll eyes*

I look forward to Field Test of these. Thanks for releasing all :)

 

This is what a Friday night is all about... Boys are asleep and beer is in glass. Time to relax and read through a Tamplin rant... Literally too excited. 

 

Update: A little disappointed on the level of ranting. Felt you could of done better dude. 

Scientific rating D.

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I'd heavily caution the idea of, "making games go faster."

Faster games tend to be the most one-sided.

They're the games you realize are over before you get halfway in and these are the most unfun games. League of Legends has been targeting "shorter game-times" for a few years now and it's destroyed the ability to find those close and evenly matched games in favor of aggressively snowbally games which are decided before the 10 minute mark, but drag out for 20 more minutes.

This is an agonizing type of game to play.

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Regarding Inheritance Tax:

2 hours ago, DeathlyDrew said:

 It is allocated, so you have to risk that you will get the takeout and not max a player out on influence. The wording should be changed from allocate to assign or give, so a player could have OVER their max influence. The way it is now will be a very risk reward type of deal.

How are Morticians getting Take Outs without spending any Influence?  I guess if you have Brainpan spend 1 Influence to have Memory get a take out from 6" away, then you might not have anyone within 4" who can now be allocated that influence, but aside from that, won't this always be, at a minimum: I spend Influence to Attack/Character Play; you die; I Allocate 1 Influence to the model who just spent one.

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1 hour ago, Totes McAwesome said:

This is what a Friday night is all about... Boys are asleep and beer is in glass. Time to relax and read through a Tamplin rant... Literally too excited. 

 

Update: A little disappointed on the level of ranting. Felt you could of done better dude. 

Scientific rating D.

Agreed. I give it 3 "give Seenah influence" rants out of 7 😜

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57 minutes ago, Atras said:

Regarding Inheritance Tax:

How are Morticians getting Take Outs without spending any Influence?  I guess if you have Brainpan spend 1 Influence to have Memory get a take out from 6" away, then you might not have anyone within 4" who can now be allocated that influence, but aside from that, won't this always be, at a minimum: I spend Influence to Attack/Character Play; you die; I Allocate 1 Influence to the model who just spent one.

I would say most times Morts have at least one gang-up, but I can really only think of it helping Graves or Casket, allowing Graves to pull of Tooled up (although this would probably happen too late in the turn) or Casket to cast Heavy Burden (which again is one of my early in the turn plays) It could help give a take-out and then into a goal opportunity, but all options are too situational for me to ever use it. I think the Take a Breather one or the 3 models off one is a better card. If Morts take A&G and Brainpan and Memory with Dirge (or Vileswarm now) you could have three players off the pitch pretty easily.

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At the end of each Initiative Phase the Controlling Player chooses one enemy model. The enemy model suffers the snared condition. If all enemy models on the Pitch are already suffering the snared condition, the friendly team gains [1] VP instead.

+2 heal

 

So according to what was said over in the hunters forum, there isnt an initiative phase turn 1. I sincerely hope this was an oversight and not intentional. There's no way I'd take it as is and I was so excited at first.

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I'm mellowing in my old age. I do think the alchemist and engineer ones are too strong (smoke can trivially get 2 aoes and score - 5vps easy). And I think the hunters and morticians ones are shite. I don't see the desired balance based on current power ratings of guilds. I mean look at the union ones - one stupidly good card that makes vRage games very short and too awful ones that make no sense (+1 to initiative ?? Really? I would have suggested a re-roll - i.e. Something momentum does grant trivially). 

I think they need a lot of work. But they have a seed of something interesting. 

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Thank you for clarifying the purpose of these cards, now we know why they exist and can give feedback in that regard.

I think there is a lot of potential in these cards for making the draft process more interesting, which therefore makes the meta game more interesting. You could have a draft system where the winner of a roll (or equivalent) can choose to pick captain/sides/kick or receive/GIC  first or second, and then play around with this order. The second player can then respond. It gives a lot of opportunity for meaningful decisions.

Simultaneous reveal (ie. draft chicken) is poop because it is essentially an informed gamble. Often, you end up in a prisoner's dilemma type situation where both players make decisions that are in their best interest as long as the opponent doesn't do the same (but you kinda have to do it because the alternative puts you at an even larger disadvantage). The result is a shittier game than if one person had made a decision and the other responded. It doesn't have to be this way - there's enough informed gambling in the dice as it is. Make the meta game RNG free.

Just a thought for future development.

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9 hours ago, EpicChris said:

I'm mellowing in my old age. I do think the alchemist and engineer ones are too strong (smoke can trivially get 2 aoes and score - 5vps easy). And I think the hunters and morticians ones are shite. I don't see the desired balance based on current power ratings of guilds. I mean look at the union ones - one stupidly good card that makes vRage games very short and too awful ones that make no sense (+1 to initiative ?? Really? I would have suggested a re-roll - i.e. Something momentum does grant trivially). 

I think they need a lot of work. But they have a seed of something interesting. 

This is more like it!

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Throwing some feedback into the ring on GIC in general rather than Guild specific and specifically as a newer player with less than 25 games played.

I really like this idea, doubtless there will be tweaks and changes to the individual card mechanics based on community feedback but as a concept overall I believe this presents considerably less barriers of entry than the pitch formations playtest whilst still providing additional, meaningful choice.

The pitch formation presented a different way of playing the game but the choices presented were principally player selection in my 6, a choice I already had in “standard Guild Ball” but with 3 additional considerations for each model. I now, as a new player have to know the model itself but also considerations for it based on deployment position within the alternative formation games. 

Guild Ball as game already has barriers of entry to new players (this is not a critique, all games do) which rather than retype I talk quite a lot about with the guys on a Singled Out over at https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/singled-out-radio-a-guild-ball-podcast/id1098009438?mt=2&i=1000390588568 [/shameless plug] and the formations feels a bigger barrier to entry than GiC.

In GIC I am presented with what I consider to be a more meaningful choice over how I play, how I score and how I impose myself on my opponent alongside how I play. Which I greatly appreciate rather than “this is how we setup now”

I’m as a direct result of these cards  currently fascinated by heal rate as a concept which has really made me think about game length and ideal turns per Guilds about how they all want very different game lengths and how heal rates between teams are not comparible  in a vacuum as a result.

 

Tl;dr: choices good. Makes me think more about game, also good. Better for new players than formations.

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Short and simple, had my rant on butchers thread. Don't like the balance, or the number of +1 VP cards, I do not think the game needs this at all. These cards should only give buffs or abilities to teams ala give out a free snared or +1 Tac for all players etc.

SF I think you need to go back to the drawing board on this one, maybe put them back in the queue behind rookies.

 

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Watched my buds play a game yesterday with GIC.  Butchers (Fillet/Blood Thirst) v. Masons (Honor/Built to Last).

Masons won and Built to Last was clutch in that game, as it took the edge off the Butchers ability to do damage on them.  The Butchers really struggled throughout and were not able to make the most of Blood Thirst.   General consensus was that the Mason's card is really good.

Our club is in the process of planning a 3 round event to cycle through all the cards for our guilds to provide better feedback.

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On 9/8/2017 at 10:43 AM, Isante said:

Short Rant:  Awarding extra VP's via cards in GB is stupid.  Games already go fast enough.  Mascots will now go back to hiding in the corner.

I hope you don't quit playing 😭

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