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Bertmac

How to pull your punches?

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So I played against one of our locals the other day I played brewers with esters, quaff, mash, Friday, ogspigot and stoner.

I didn't think it was a particularly tough line-up but it just seemed to take whatever my opponent could throw at it and give it back twice as hard.

Opponents team was fillet, truffles, boar, tenderiser, ogbrisket, vet ox.

My opponent was pretty downhearted after the game as he never saw a chance to win.

I tried telegraphing my moves by stacking buffs. Also talked him through some good options for scoring.

I scored turn 1 with Friday.

 

My opponent is a fairly experienced gamer and has played a fair bit of guild ball including one or two tournaments.

How do I play less hard to avoid putting him off?

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A turn 1 goal is a bit demoralising, and if your plan is 4-1 it means you have a bit more work to do at the end. 

If your opp is experienced as he sounds then he shouldn't be taking the loss that hard. His picks don't look that great into your team though in my opinion, it looks like he's trying to play a brewers game. Ox, boiler, vbrisket, boar, meathook and princess could have been a very different game.

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I did advise on boiler/princess also that he was probably slightly better off kicking with fillet rather than brisket to give him a better chance of killing something turn 1.

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Part of the answer will depend on the type of person your opponent is.  In my case, recognizing that my opponent is holding back (after an initial learning period, of course) would be even more frustrating.  Instead, I would recommend trying to give him recommendations on improvement.  Possibly during or after the game, depending on how that person is.

Also holding back may not help him improve.  Or might make the morale hit after trying a competitive tournament even worse because he thought he was doing better in comparison

 

The rest of this post will be based on my experience and opinions.  I have been playing for less than 6 months at this point as Butchers.  Other people may give different advice.

1:  He is playing a very slow team.  Half his team is 4/6.  This means that the team may have trouble catching a football team and that a fighty team may be able to dictate the engagement.  SInce the Butcher's tend to be more of glass cannon, they want to be trying to dictate the engagement.  Also, I like having Brisket2 / vBrisket for Quick Time when I have a slow player... or usually always.

2:  His team is low influence.  Most teams are hungry for a lot of influence.  His team only has 11 influence, while I try to shoot for a minimum of 12.  For this reason, I will usually not consider taking Boar and Tenderiser in the same list.

3:  For the kick off, I will only consider kicking off with Brisket if I think I can get a turn 1 goal with her.  Usually as Butchers, I'm not looking to give the opponent the ball with an early turn 1 goal.  Brisket does not put any pressure on the opponent's moves, unlike kicking off with Fillet (or some cases with Boar for that extra 4" forward).

4:  Low synergy.  His team has a lot of 2" reach, with three models having it but doesn't have the mobility to make use of it for crowd outs.  Truffles is slow, so doesn't have much mobility for helping with crowd outs.  Also, Fillet really likes having a bleeding target when she goes in for slaughter... but not having Boiler, Meathook, or Rage with crucial artery for a bleed setup can hurt her efficiency.  Also no Meathook for the possibility of tooled up, kind of hurts.

5:  Is he focused on football?  Or does he think to kill the ball?  I had a lot more problems when I was trying to focus on scoring, while considering takeouts.  Once I considered killing the ball against football teams or using it for the dodges against other beater teams, I started doing a lot better.

Well, that's some of my thoughts on how to get him to improve.

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He tried to kill the ball but between esters legendary, tooled up and stokers extra damage my team was able to hand out a lot of damage.

Only have union and brewers but have all 5 captains.

We had a decent chat after not just do this do that but why I would do certain things differently. 

Thinking it maybe better to just assign influence as it is generated so no 1 round take outs?

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This is honestly the biggest problem I've had with teaching the game.  The issue comes down to the fact that going easy on the opponent doesn't necessarily cause them to do things that actually score points to win the game.  When I pull my punches what often happens is we play for 4-5 hours to a 4-6 score and I finally just have to be like "and then I do this, this and this and win".

The bigger issue is that I find it gives new players the wrong impression of how the game really plays.  A lot of the time I realize they get a mindset to play for turn 5-6 or just lose interest in the game because its too long.  It basically creates a situation where even if they start doing better, they basically haven't learned anything until they're really playing against an opponent who isn't going to let the game go to turn 4.

I don't really have an answer for this.  In general I've found its easier to teach "hard knocks" style, but that's not for everyone.  I can't say I really know a better way to learn unfortunately.

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One of the guys in my meta is playing a fillet team and is just ripping it up.  His line up is:

Fillet, Princess, Tenderizer, Boiler, Meathook, Boar

For Butchers or any melee heavy team, having the other team score a turn 1 goal should not be the end of the game.  It happens.  In a recent game against Fish, despite my best efforts, he scored a Turn 1 goal with Shark, but those were the last points that he scored.  I played my game, knew what I wanted to do and it turned around. 

For newer players, I try to play teams that I have not played before or have limited experience with as to give the other person a better chance.  If you play your A team, it can get ugly.  I also try to talk through my thought process on what I am doing and thinking about to provide additional insight and context for the other person to react to.  I also allow take backs, and I try to warn them about potential "gotchas."  If a measurement is close, I give it to the other guy.  In other words, I try to play a very friendly and laid back game.

 

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6 hours ago, Bertmac said:

So I played against one of our locals the other day I played brewers with esters, quaff, mash, Friday, ogspigot and stoner.

 

I hope in the future there is a player called Stoner. 

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The only thing I can suggest is try making a team that is as least synergistic as possible. No min-max, don't take all the best strikers, don't take all the best beaters. You can still score a turn 1 goal. Just don't do one where they feel like they had no chance of stopping it. Let them have a few activations first.

As @LunarSol said, if you try just to go easy, you get boring games that last too long and your opponent won't understand what they are "supposed" to do anyway. Leading by example is often the best way to teach because they can see what you are trying to do and hopefully they learn from that.

You'll still probably win. But at least you won't steam-roll them.

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I gave a demo last week using the 3 man team of sBrisket, oRage and Fangtooth vs a newbie using the season 1 Union starter box.  With a bit of coaching (It's probably wise to leave Gutter or Blackheart engaging oRage, Decimate can score later this turn if one of her team mates generates momentum first) Blackheart should always win this match.

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