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TheLieutenant

CAGE BALL THREAD

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In line with the recent thread in pitch size, I think this is going to make going for ting-outs a touch more prominent. I'd like to see what Jac can do in Cage Ball, particularly.

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Just now, malladin.ben said:

Thursday night mini-event at Element? ;-)

Haha, that's tempting! My car's out of action just now though, so I may not be at Element on Thursday at all. :( 

Could definitely bash out a 3 round event with these rules if we started early enough though. 

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2 minutes ago, malladin.ben said:

But seriously, this could be a great format for a club night event - 3 rounds in 3 hours? Could you do it with 25min/player on the clock and 60 min rounds?

That's intriguing... I'd run that at my club, but I'm not sure the other players are experienced enough to play to that limit. I think you'd need a bit longer though, possibly 3.5 hours, so players have time to prepare between games (move, setup, etc).

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Interesting I guess.   Not sure why SF is working on all these weird deployments and stuff so much.  In 17+ years of gaming, I have basically never seen any 'alternate' formats of mini games take off that deviate any real amount from 'standard' play.  The only one that I can think of that was fairly successful was Who's the Boss in Warmachine.  At the last convention I attended, there were 4 players that played 'Dodgeball' and their event was literally over in 20min.  They also offered speedball and I don't believe anyone even played it.

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5 minutes ago, Isante said:

Interesting I guess.   Not sure why SF is working on all these weird deployments and stuff so much.  In 17+ years of gaming, I have basically never seen any 'alternate' formats of mini games take off that deviate any real amount from 'standard' play.  The only one that I can think of that was fairly successful was Who's the Boss in Warmachine.  At the last convention I attended, there were 4 players that played 'Dodgeball' and their event was literally over in 20min.  They also offered speedball and I don't believe anyone even played it.

Guild Ball doesn't have a mission system, so SF can't work on adding new missions to the game. I'm guessing this is their way of experimenting without adding missions.

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@Isante Well, other minis games do have various missions or scenarios which are rather prominent, and which Guild Ball completely lacks. This doesn't quite scratch that itch, admittedly, but Formations could play in that space, and I could see other alternate deployment patterns or pitch-wide alternate rules doong that. Things like "Rowdy Crowd" or "inclement weather" affecting the whole pitch, or adding alternate means of gaining points. In fact, that gives me an idea...

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4 hours ago, Isante said:

Interesting I guess.   Not sure why SF is working on all these weird deployments and stuff so much.  In 17+ years of gaming, I have basically never seen any 'alternate' formats of mini games take off that deviate any real amount from 'standard' play.  The only one that I can think of that was fairly successful was Who's the Boss in Warmachine.  At the last convention I attended, there were 4 players that played 'Dodgeball' and their event was literally over in 20min.  They also offered speedball and I don't believe anyone even played it.

X-wing did ok with alternate formats. Epic doesn't get much love at cons but is popular with fans (though the argument that it isn't THAT different is probably valid.) Missions are popular with fans and more so with casuals and got popular enough FFG added a mission builder to their website. Stuff takes time to catch on. I think this is probably the most promising of the variants to date.

All in all though you are correct that they usually aren't very successful. I can't really think of an alternate format being pushed to heavily either though. Perhaps the results would be better with a better pitch (pun absolutely intended.)

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So is this meant to be an actual alternate format for experienced players, or just for intro games? Seems like a good spot to put introduction/inexperienced games in, but I don't know that I'd choose this over the normal GB game if I was playing against a player who knows the game. 

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Hmmm, well I'll give it a go but I do have my reservations. We've (my immediate meta) always marvelled at how the game operates with 6 players. It seems beautifully balanced, no matter how good your line up is there always seems to be one weakness - you choose players to do certain jobs and broadly speaking those jobs are goals, takeouts, buffs, denial and defence. No matter how hard it try every line up lacks in one area, and I've always noted a seventh player would solve that issue. Not that I want it solved, I think it's amazing we are presented with this choice. I've heard Mat talk about this a lot and i really do think it's key to keeping Guild Ball at the front of my mind - I can't play a game during a smoke break at work, but I can enjoy  agonising over my lists for a few minutes. It's so tough, as each role requires more than one model to be able to fulfill it effectively, and some models can do more than one, and others are very singular in their use. All of this with  no points tables in sight, and I firmly believe the roles to team size ratio is a core factor in making that possible. 

Hence I'm reluctant to reduce that to 4, the 3v3 games didn't work well unless you played the special Shark v Ox cards. I have faith though, if SF think it works with 4 I will give it a go.

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I think this will be interesting to try. Most people on these forums are very experienced players. When you're good at the game you can play out a world championship match in an hour. But it's not too hard for a beginners/casual game to take two or three hours if you're looking up rules occasionally and chatting, or playing a slower/fighty team like brewers, so this could be a good option to suggest.

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@Siberys for some reason the site won't let me like your post! :(

In regards to the format itself. Turns out I am a GB genius without even knowing it. This is exactly how I have been playing with my 6 year old son since I picked up Kick off in December last year. I find it is perfect for him when it comes to managing his players (not too much to do but enough) and helps me try out various player combos I would not try in other matches/formats.

It is fairly enjoyable for a demo type game. I would not make it my standard go to format though.

Now SF about that 11 a side variant......

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13 hours ago, Slothrop said:

So is this meant to be an actual alternate format for experienced players, or just for intro games? Seems like a good spot to put introduction/inexperienced games in, but I don't know that I'd choose this over the normal GB game if I was playing against a player who knows the game. 

The intent is to be an actual alt format for experienced players, specifically ones that may not have time to get in full 6v6 games. :)

It's also a really good way to 'work up' to 6v6 for newer players. 

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My Hot Take is: Unlike the Formations which I would love to replace standard GB (so a crafty Beta test there), this looks like it only has benefit as an intro format. Most players I know either settle in for 2hr game or don't really bother given the travel requirements involved (it's just not convenient to travel and then only play 40 mins). And if you have the time, why would you play a 'quick' variant. So my feeling is the premise is flawed - people will make time and play 'standard' GB or not rather than play 'quick' GB. But as an intro format it has some game.

I appreciate the 'missions' argument earlier (although I think there are other means to achieve this such as an initial setup condition of two teams and asking one to 'get out of it' or weather or somesuch - i.e. change the boundary conditions) but in my experience people just want 'the one true way'. Alt-formats are lovely, but they'd rather the 'one true way' was just refined to be the 'best way' - and then all other alt-formats seem pointless. This is why I see design time on Formations to replace the 'one true way' make sense, but design time on other alt-formats a distraction.

But that's just my opinion.

 

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How much time have you guys seen shaved off a game? Learning the game we played mostly Brewers vs Butchers so we didn't exactly use a whole lot of the pitch anyway lol.

I've suggested it as the second week of the escalation league (so it adds a mascot, 1ft to the board and 4vps) after the first week 3v3, on the basis that it would be good for new players to learn too.

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@EpicChris

I think the strength of this format as a shorter version of the game is for club-night play. If you can get a whole round done in 60 minutes it makes a 3-round event quite manageable on a typical club night. We've had a few such events for X-Wing at Element recently and they've proved very popular (one time we had to run 3 parallel 8-player tournaments to meet the demand).

Not saying GB will ever be as popular as X-Wing, but there's something to be got from a format that can be run in an evening rather than a whole day (or indeed a day and an evening in the case of 5-round events).

These events are good because they encourage new players to come to your club nights and help to grow regular attendance. It's not going to replace standard tournament play, but for a 3 round club tournament on an evening I think this scale of game is perfect.

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@malladin.ben

I definitely agree that there's room for a shorter game mode. Then length of miniatures games is one of their biggest hurdles for organized play. Having a way to play games that are under an hour would be pretty tempting for side events, casual games, and weeknight events.

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