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kaladorm

Avarisse & Greede FAQ

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Could anyone point me to an faq regarding A&Gs rules? In our little playgroup there isn't a single model (pun not intended) that has given us so many rules questions, and I've been trawling the forums for some individual answers but some of these relate to S2 

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Hi, there's nothing specific to A&G. The Collected Clarifications has a number of answers for how to play these two.

Was there something specific you had in mind?

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Thanks for the link, also clarified a few other things for me!

Some of the rules that came up in the past regarded influence generation (Greede doesn't generate influence if attached?) as well as something I saw about Greede not given icy sponge tokens but that might have been S2 specific.

 

Conceptually how they work makes sense but mechanically it has resulted in quite a few head scratchers :-)

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I had some problems when I first fielded A&G too, but I found a lot of times I was overthinking it. Most questions I had I was able to answer by just really examining the text on the card. Make sure to leave Greede on the field if you want his influence, and start base to base if you want Avarisse to pick him up. Don't forget he can use Avarisse's influence as long as he's within 6", so he'll need his own if you plan on running him out.

A popular play is when they have the ball, give Avarisse 3 inf and Greede 1; Avarisse picks up Greede, sprints 7", and drops Greede in front of him. Greede then uses one of Avarisse's influence to sprint 6". Since he's just at 6" away, he uses Avarisse's last influence to do "Where'd They Go?" to get a 4" dodge. Then, the plan is to be close enough for a shot on goal. With Greede's kick range, that makes them a 23-24" threat range for a shot on goal.

For me, once I understood this play and how it all worked, it cleared up most questions I had about the duo.

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7 hours ago, Larhendiel said:

Also they are amazing close combat beasts when working together.
Avarisse can "prepare" the target while Greede can slither all their veins

I'm wondering if that's really true mathematically. It seems like avarisse would generate more damage using three attacks, then splitting 1/2.

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16 minutes ago, doublecheese said:

I'm wondering if that's really true mathematically. It seems like avarisse would generate more damage using three attacks, then splitting 1/2.

Greede can potentially do more damage, plus his results are momentous.

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Looks like if I get coin, and shelling out on a 4-1 model. Greede just making 3 attacks can generate 3 momentum and 12 damage. Avarisse potentially knckdowns the first hit, then needs to wrap on the second to single out, then wrap again to do 10 damage generate 3 momentum. Greede is more reliable, but not having a damage on 5 or 6 hits brings avarisse pretty comparable.

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Depends how much set up the dynamic duo has.  If they've only got each other, maximum damage is usually Avarisse attacks once for SO/KD then Greede attacks 3 times for 3 damage.  If there are multiple other crowd outs or def debuffs coming from the rest of the team, Avarisse makes better use of those buffs so he should make the damaging attacks.

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A few other things to consider. As @MechMage and @doublecheesesaid, in a perfect world you'll get a SO or KD w/ Avarisse. BUT, also note that Avarisse has fewer columns than his printed TAC (5 columns, TAC 6) - Greede is the opposite (8 columns, TAC 7). So a wrap from Avarisse is not totally uncommon, considering Greede can often serve as a crowd out. So you might just get both a SO and a fat momentous 3 :>>:. Do you need to re-position your target, perhaps for another crowd out, or into Shelling Out, or an AOE, or whatever? Then Avarisse is your man. Actually, now that I think about it, you have a few more options w/ Avarisse, in that you often have the choice of either a KD, SO, or some damage and re-position, but perhaps a bit less damage in the long run. I wonder what the damage output over time (that is to say, a simulation against many attempts) would be for the two. Hmmm, I am bored at work...

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Step 1: Walk Avarisse into melee with target & drop Greede (helps if you have pushed targets into 5" of A+G or sped up A+G with Grace)

Step 2: Hit model with Avarisse (if potential counter could disengage, you 100% do this) to do at least 2 DMG and KD or risk Greede attack (not advisable)

Step 3: Greede hits model for Singled Out (see Step 2 on order)

Step 4: Avarisse hits model for probable 4-6 DMG per hit. 

Step 5: Either attack with Greede or reattach to Avarisse depending on your risk aversion/reward.

Step 6: Profit???

They are maniacs of damage. If in a vRage team they will annihilate virtually every other model in the game under legendary or Bloody Coin. And their speed issue can be fixed with Grace. They should be considered extremely dangerous, possibly too dangerous.

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