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MarkM

vVelocity - No 'Fly Keeper' Turn 1?

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According to this ruling there is no maintenance phase turn one in tournaments - due to the OPD.

VetVelocity - Fly Keeper "During the maintenance Phase ...".

Is this right?  Is it intended, or an unseen consequence of the OPD?

A bit pissed about this as I bought vV for a specific role which she cannot now do turn 1.

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Moved to Rules Clarifications as it's an interesting one.

It was recently ruled that the wording of the OPD took precedence and there was no maintenance phase in turn 1 based off of a question regarding Katalyst.

The effect of not having access to Fly Keeper is a bit more pronounced, so...

checking...

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I'm not bumping the thread, just wondering since this is marked "checking" and in light of the previous ruling re:Katalyst should this be played as no Fly Keeper until ruling/errata is published reversing that?

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To add onto this do Tapper and other models with tactical advice not benefit from tactical advice during the first turn since tactical advice specifies during the maintenance phase?

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7 hours ago, Skuloth said:

To add onto this do Tapper and other models with tactical advice not benefit from tactical advice during the first turn since tactical advice specifies during the maintenance phase?

I could imagine it being the intention for Katalyst not to burn or for Fly Keeper to be inaccessible turn 1, but I can't imagine anyone ever intended for Tactical Advice to be inaccessible turn 1.

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2 hours ago, MechMage said:

I could imagine it being the intention for Katalyst not to burn or for Fly Keeper to be inaccessible turn 1, but I can't imagine anyone ever intended for Tactical Advice to be inaccessible turn 1.

I would say lacking an errata or revised ruling on Katalyst that's exactly the case.

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After discussion, we've agreed that the consequences of the earlier ruling weren't fully understood, and so I've updated the original thread.  Each player completes a maintenance phase following kickoff, but prior to starting the clock to allocate influence.

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Just to be clear because I've usually seen it played differently, turn one each player may take as long as they like to allocate influence because the clock isn't running, correct?  Is the maintenance phase to allocate influence or is starting the clock to allocate influence?

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33 minutes ago, MechMage said:

Just to be clear because I've usually seen it played differently, turn one each player may take as long as they like to allocate influence because the clock isn't running, correct?  Is the maintenance phase to allocate influence or is starting the clock to allocate influence?

You start the clock the moment the first player starts allocating influence.  

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1 hour ago, MilitaryCoo said:

After discussion, we've agreed that the consequences of the earlier ruling weren't fully understood, and so I've updated the original thread.  Each player completes a maintenance phase following kickoff, but prior to starting the clock to allocate influence.

I noticed an inconsistency between your post here and your update to the other thread.

Does the maintenance phase happen between receiver placing models and the kick off like suggested with the timing steps in your update, or following the kick off like written here. 

Also if the rule ends up following whats written in the other thread, doesnt this create a weird circumstance with traits like tactical advice where Tapper for example can trigger tactical advice before he moves for his kick and then walk away from scum before allocating influence?

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7 hours ago, kryzak said:

You start the clock the moment the first player starts allocating influence.  

Correct -- "H. The Receiving Player starts the chess clock and then allocates their Influence."

7 hours ago, Skuloth said:

I noticed an inconsistency between your post here and your update to the other thread.

The maintenance phase occurs after kick off and before influence allocation.  I've double checked and can't see any inconsistency.

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In the other thread you say that the maintenance phase takes place between steps G and H of the OPD, which are receiving player deploying models and the kicking player performing the kick off action. 

Which is not what you are saying here, which would have the maintenance phase taking place between steps H and I instead. 

With the maintenance taking place between H and I instead of G and H my concern about things like tactical advice is no longer relevant, but I want to verify that it does in fact take place after the kick off like you suggest in this thread. 

Screen grab from the 'Maintenance Phase on turn 1 - Difference between Rulebook and Regional Cup' thread for reference

Screen Shot 2017-06-06 at 11.35.51 PM.png

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@MilitaryCoo has propably used the old OPD (before may).

There it is actually G and H:

G. The Kicking Player performs a kick-off action. 

H. The Receiving Player starts the chess clock and then allocates their Influence. From this point onward the active Player must have their chess clock running.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Sonny said:

@MilitaryCoo has propably used the old OPD (before may).

There it is actually G and H:

 

 

That would make sense. However he even says 'prior to the kickoff' in the other thread.

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You're quite right - the list of steps in the first post of the other thread uses the old enumeration of steps, and that threw me off.

 

The maintenance phase is between kick off and first influence allocation. I've updated the other thread to reflect that.

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50 minutes ago, MilitaryCoo said:

You're quite right - the list of steps in the first post of the other thread uses the old enumeration of steps, and that threw me off.

 

The maintenance phase is between kick off and first influence allocation. I've updated the other thread to reflect that.

Thanks.

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