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      Training Ground   02/14/2018

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PiperMacB

Pin Vice or Ballista ?

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Apologies in advance, if there is another topic covering the same issue - if so, please let me know.

Which one of the captains do you prefer and why?

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I'm a big fan of Ballista.  His Dead Bolt helps knock down some of the first turn goal threats and opposing players who are threatening my players. He has good damage in his playbook as well as the minefield that can lock down the middle of the pitch, making takeouts easier to achieve.  Second Wind allows those with ranged plays to kite the opponents more easily: run up, shoot, run back out of charge range. Add to that the momentous aura that I miss every time I play Pin Vice. It allows you to score momentum on every character play that damages an opponent turn one if you position correctly.  It lets you get an early Mom lead to open up scoring or healing or just going first turn two.  Then add Breach! to those things and you have a pass or shot on goal that can knock opposing players down (including those with GM as it doesn't target them). 

That's not to say I dislike Pin Vice.  I do like her but I prefer Ballista.

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I was wondering this the other day.  I'm fairly new to the game.  I started it with Ballista.  All but two of my Engineers games have been with Ballista.  The other day I was trying Pin Vice, and I felt like I was suffering under a great many handicaps.  I am not certain if she's weaker, or if I have simply become excessively reliant on Ballista's particular suite of abilities.

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Pin Vice can win.  She's quite good in a fight.  Against Butchers she's kind of a pain like all reanimate models.  Not as tough as Hoist but harder to hit. Really really fast and she can extend the threat of any model with Alternator.  Controller makes her "linked" to any mechanica model to play with activation order which can practically guarantee a goal.  With Deletion she makes Hoist or Vet Velocity or even Ratchet (using her heroic to make him mechanica) a real takeout threat.  The damage from those is a bit of a detriment to her, but at 2 hit points it isn't terrible. If she's tooled up and does deletion on herself it can be devastating to the opponent but can because that 2 goes to 4 points of damage it's dangerous to use it early or often.  The main difference I see is I get used to easy mom generation early with Ballista. With PV it is pretty much like any other guild. Damage from range becomes about control and not momentum unless from takeouts. Under her those plays can do more damage.  I mean with tooled up and deletion Hoist can drop two three inch AOEs that do 4 damage to each player hit.  She's fun, just not the fun Ballista is for me.

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Both captains have real merit, Ballista can play a better "scrum" game with harry and colossus and can put a forward a really resilent game. Pin Vice can score very fast and can also kill players with a bit of set up, I have seen plenty of single captain Pin Vice in recent tournaments. I think with Thresher being released and just being able to delete models like Pin Vice, Midas and Filet we could see more double captain return. 

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I've played about 70 games with Ballista and 3 games with PV.  Ballista has my regular opponents groaning, so I think that I may return to PV for a few weeks.  

I prefer to control the scrum, so that is why I usually take Ballista.  In my games with PV, it felt like that by the time I get her set up to do something, the board state has already changed.  What I do find great about her is her ability to extend her threat range with her legendary; it's exceptionally easy to get an extra 8 inches for an important kill or goal(preferably both).

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Two completely different play styles. It feels to me that Ballista is about control (combined with Ratchet and Hoist make an awesome team), whereas pin vice is more about scoring. Her legendary means you can do an almost full-field goal run if you have everyone positioned properly. I have to say though every time I play ballista, there's probably only one time per game I wish I had PV, but every time I play PV, I wish I had ballista almost the entire game.

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i feel like ballista is the more powerful of the two captains, especially since hes better at kick off than PV is. If you receive the ball it is fairly trivial to throw a 2 or 3 dice deadbolt at a lot of forward threats which nullifies them entirely unless you're up against a trait like Fixer or a player like millstone. 

Breach is a pretty good way to score as well

 

 

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17 hours ago, Oddman said:

Two completely different play styles. It feels to me that Ballista is about control (combined with Ratchet and Hoist make an awesome team), whereas pin vice is more about scoring. Her legendary means you can do an almost full-field goal run if you have everyone positioned properly. I have to say though every time I play ballista, there's probably only one time per game I wish I had PV, but every time I play PV, I wish I had ballista almost the entire game.

Almost? My first game using PV had her doing a massive, curvy goal run almost off the bat. Heck, with her Legendary PV's threat range is longer than Shark's by a good 4", at least.

Both Ballista and PV go for 2-2 games, but they take different tacks. PV is very forward and aggressive while Ballista sets up for a knock-down, drag-out scrum with goals from Breach and whoever the team is using as a striker.

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I don't even pretend to play Ballista. I played my first 15 games of engineers with Ballista and I like him but I always found him getting stuck in and falling against the more brawling teams in my meta. I switched to Pin Vice and haven't looked back! I look to go 3-0 in most of my games and one a tournament a couple weeks back without Ballista in my nine.

PVs toolbox is just too good to leave at home. I typically activate her late in the turn in early rounds to capitalize on my opponents moves and then turn three or four she is usually in a place to get the ball, pass to another player, and controller them for the winner. Plus, 5/0 with reanimate, so good :)

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