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pielover101

10 man team if Smoke is my main?

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I love Smoke. I know Midas is really good but Smoke has that Alchemist flavour that I love and Midas is "just" a striker. If I play I'm using Smoke wherever possible. I picked up vKat today and these are the 10 models I own:

Midas
Smoke
Flask
Calculus
Compound
vKatalyst
Mercury
Venin
Vitriol
Decimate

My default list would likely be Smoke, Flask, Calc, Merc, Vitriol and vKat. Compound should probably be on the bench which means Decimate and Venin can be axed. Specifically axing Decimate brings my mate and I one step closer to running a fully independent Union team, though I don't really like forfeiting Alchemists only real source of unconditional momentous damage. What matchups are a nightmare for Smoke, and what Midas build would work best in those matchups? My playstyle means I tend to accelerate to ~8 VP then struggle to close out the game so I really want vKat in wherever possible.

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One of the biggest weakness Smoke has is her poor ability to extract the ball from an opposing player.  Rather than trying to cover this with Midas, I recommend covering it with a merc since either Mist or A&G do it better than he can.  That pushes you further towards a 3-0 strategy, but A&G can also serve as an effective vKat buddy as long as you take care positioning your big guys.

I urge you to deploy vKat conservatively.  His effectiveness varies from game winning to game losing depending on whether or not he can find a witness.  For that reason I'd consider finding room for oKat, especially since you aren't running Harry.

Ultimately, Midas's and Smoke's matchups are similar enough that with the new blind captain picks it's mostly a matter of personal preference.  For this reason, if you like Smoke, don't bother with Midas.

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If the tanky KD/burning thing is a big deal I can tag out Decimate for Harry. Decimate wouldn't ever make a Smoke list and Midas is more of a distraction/backup in this lineup, and if I want to get some take outs I can run vKat which Harry can actually assist by proccing Intensify. Vitriol, Venin and Merc seem like they bring pretty solid tackles for ball extraction? I understand vKat is high risk/high reward but that's the kind of game I play and I think he's going to thrive. I'll need to play some games with him and if he ends up not living up to my expectations I'll look into oKat as a solid substitute for some match-ups, and probably cut Venin or Merc from the 10 as a result (I see Harry making it hard for Merc to find a spot).

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With Smoke I tend to not play her into certain teams, Brewers being one, mostly as large part of their lineup can clear conditions with ease and have in general too much health to really damage. Still, if you want to make Smoke the one and only, all the power to you.

For a 10 man centered around her you'd want conditions galore all around. My normal 6 with Smoke is:

  1. Smoke
  2. Naja
  3. Vitriol
  4. Calculus
  5. vKat
  6. Harry

In addition I add these 4 for situations

  1. Compound
  2. oKat
  3. Mercury
  4. Crucible

Compound is a nice trick in the bag and is generally useful with little influence (1). He can put Odour or Chemical resist as needed and keeps a nice zone around the goal. oKat is for matchups when vKat can be shutdown too easily, for example ranged snares, knockdowns or clone/ high def 2'' models. oKat also can take more damage and dish out in general almost as much as vKat. oKat's easier access to an momentus KD and damage results should be a consideration. Mercury can also come in as another fire AoE and make even more templates and movement debuffs. Crucible I still haven't quite figured out, but she seems to be nice as a midfielder supporting a beater. I tend to use Harry for this to setup either of the Katalysts for kills or as I've done multiple times. Run people off the table with his pushes. Last victim was everyones favorite bear. Got a a massive charge off and wrapped like a boss double, double pushing the bear halfway to the sausage stands.

Play it your way man, have fun and keep the Smoke strong!

 

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I wouldn't be so quick to discount Venin. If you're looking at a smoke only team he's a pretty powerful ball retrieval model with a Momentous Tackle and Dodge on 2, and a potent scoring threat on his own due to 8" Kick, while being able to opportunistically put your opponent's striker models on the back foot by applying poison and bleed, even sacrificial puppet can add up when most Strikers have 10-12 HP, not to mention 4 DEF 2 ARM makes their common Tac 4 have serious troubles stripping the ball from him. He doesn't have the raw speed of Mist or Vitriol but he can usually survive long enough for an opportunity to present itself for him to do some work.

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16 minutes ago, JacctheInsomniac said:

I wouldn't be so quick to discount Venin. If you're looking at a smoke only team he's a pretty powerful ball retrieval model with a Momentous Tackle and Dodge on 2, and a potent scoring threat on his own due to 8" Kick, while being able to opportunistically put your opponent's striker models on the back foot by applying poison and bleed, even sacrificial puppet can add up when most Strikers have 10-12 HP, not to mention 4 DEF 2 ARM makes their common Tac 4 have serious troubles stripping the ball from him. He doesn't have the raw speed of Mist or Vitriol but he can usually survive long enough for an opportunity to present itself for him to do some work.

Who would you drop from a typical Smoke line up to make room for Venin?  I agree that he can be effective in the right circumstances but that doesn't amount to much if someone better has to be benched to make room for him.

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Just now, MechMage said:

Who would you drop from a typical Smoke line up to make room for Venin?  I agree that he can be effective in the right circumstances but that doesn't amount to much if someone better has to be benched to make room for him.

Depends. If Mercury is already in hot water due to Harry maybe him. If you don't have, or don't want to play Harry/Union then the Union slot. Crucible has seemed a bit underwhelming in the games I played with her and is thoroughly less survivable than Venin so possibly her. If you're not regularly going for a heft of takeouts than you might make do without vKatalyst, as fun as he is.

I don't do tournament play. But the Alchemist lineup, seems versatile enough to pivot into a full scoring team even without the inclusion of Midas for matchups like Brewers or Farmers which seem otherwise be considered poor matchups. If I were to setup a Smoke only lineup it would be this.

Smoke - Flask/Naja - Calculus - Mercury - Venin - Crucible - vKatalyst - Vitriol - Compound/Union Model - Katalyst

However I'm far from a competitive player, all I'm saying is there's more to Venin than most people give him credit for, he reminds me of Chisel in that regard.

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I'm still a very new player but with smoke I've been using crucible with vkat her being there to force the extra momentum to remove contusions if they have burning or poison seems to feel helpful when I used smoke as it feels using smoke means I tend to use more condition play

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