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MechMage

Minx vs Decimate

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I'm putting together a Union list in part because I'm growing tired of Midas's one track game plan and in part because I think the Union's long list of powerful situational picks gives them a huge advantage every time an OPD update increases the roster size.

Unfortunately, filling my list with situational picks leaves little room for mainstays.  I find I have only one slot that I'd like to put both Decimate and Minx in.  They're very similar pieces.  Each has a character play that increases an ally's mobility and one that lowers an enemy's defense at the top of their playbook.  Minx is furious which makes her considerably more efficient if she can charge but Decimate has a higher tax and anatomical precision so she does more with the same influence if she can't charge.  Decimate has a more accurate kick but Minx is faster so there isn't as much of a difference in goal threat.  Hunter's Prey is great, but BTTS means Minx doesn't want to stick around to support Bloody Coin.  Decimate has 2 more hit points and a stronger counter attack which add up to noticeably more survivability.

Am I mistaken in thinking these two compete for the same slot?  Is there some other important difference I've overlooked?

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I prioritize Minx much higher by virtue of being a battery. The Union has a lot of models that love INF, but not a ton that are fine taking none, and that's the big thing that Minx has over Decimate. Minx will charge someone to set up a snare for a kill, or disrupt a goal, etc. and happily hand her 2 INF off to someone else. But Decimate really wants a full stack for the most part, to turn a bunch of INF into damage and MOM. Unfortunately, this isn't a role that the Union (and vRage union in particular) are lacking. My starting 12 INF very often goes to Rage, Harry and Gutter, and I don't think she competes with any of them for that INF.

I think she's worth considering for Blackheart teams, as she fits better into his versatile plan and her 3 die kick is good for making the On My Mark chains feel safer - but I've also only played BH once in S3, so my experience there is limited and I don't know whether or not she makes the cut there either.

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Going to have to agree with Akaleth for the most part, with a few caveats. It does depend on what captain you're running. Brisk3t and Blackheart are both looking for the better ball handling (On My Mark or I'm Open), while vRage would prefer the furious charge and battery. Decimate can do quite a bit of damage under Bloody Coin or My Gang, as long as you have the influence. When I've used Decimate with vRage, she's stayed just out of the action until the round after Harry or Gutter go down, then get's their influence to keep the pain train a runnin'. Of course, the same can be done with Minx. I've also had some problems with Minx being controlled by a 2 in melee model engaging her.

So, they fill slightly different roles IMO, but, you can cut one to keep the other, you just have to decide what priority you want to have.

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I personally prefer Decimate for her survivability (<< on 2 hits) and that first turn Second Wind can be pretty useful. She also got more possible damage (most times) in an activation if you need it. The better kick is a bonus for me as well, at least with BH or sBr as previously stated.

Though, if you are looking for a more battery type model, Minx certainly is a good choice. Though I have been liking Benediction for the battery role ^_^

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It depends on which captain and what you are intending to get done with them.. They both make the list of 10 I'm looking into arranging post Vengeance... 

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2 hours ago, Redmaw said:

It depends on which captain and what you are intending to get done with them.. They both make the list of 10 I'm looking into arranging post Vengeance... 

What's your list of 10 look like?

I'm looking at vRage in particular for my captain.  He seems so much more reliable than BH or sBrisket.

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1 hour ago, MechMage said:

What's your list of 10 look like?

I'm looking at vRage in particular for my captain.  He seems so much more reliable than BH or sBrisket.

Strangely enough I was thinking about the other two.. Brisket if I think I can out shoot the other team, Blackheart if I need a more fighty 2" melee vs fish or allchemists..

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I don't know how to feel about sBrisket.  When she can get the ball she wins very quickly and when she can't she does nothing.  I know I'm never playing her into Engineers again.

I want to like BH but he usually lets me down.  He feels like he wants to be loaded up but he does less with 6 than vRage does with 4.  His high tackle prevents him from excelling at the football game, his lack of momentous damage in the middle of his playbook hampers him as a beat stick and his low defense mitigates his awesome counter attacks since he can easily be knocked down on the charge.

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I dunno. I went 6-1 with a brisket/blackheart line up at vengeance this weekend. Only loss was against another blackheart :lol: (4-1 with brisket an 2-0 with blackheart)

I think they both are quite amazing captains. Granted, I think vRage is super sweet as well, but I am more into the scoring game personally. 

It got a little bit tougher with the new OPD for brisket however. 

Motivated mist is such a great model now by the way.

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I'm 100% with you that Motivated takes Mist back to season 2.  In a couple weeks when Grace and Benny come out though, it will be that much harder to put sBrisket on the pitch.

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Just to be clear. I got to play with Grace and Benny, since they got prereleased. So I that might give me a different viewpoint on Blackheart and mist and so on. 

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What would your 10 be with Blackheart/sbrisket lineup? That lineup is rough because, even more than with Rage, I want to bring too many models.

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My line up was FWIW:

Brisket
Blackheart
Coin
Harry
Mist
Grace
Benediction
A&G
Decimate
Snakeskin

Before i threw Grace & Benny in there I had Minx and oRage. Did not miss Minx, but did think that at least having the tooled up option in the line up would have been sweet. (Did anyone say Quick Foot + Tooled up Blackheart?)

Mascot I could see arguments for either. But I like Coin. Both seems good.

 

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Yeah, I've been really feeling like I don't even bring minx anymore, with benediction taking her spot in my vet rage lists, and I think minx has even less to offer the other two captains, so I can see the drop there. I don't think I could drop rage1 though, especially if you don't have vet rage to fall back on if you need to bring the beats. The main thing I'm having trouble with is I want your full 10, and also gutter+rage1, but idk where to get it.

As for the topic at hand, I actually think both minx definitely doesn't make my list anymore, with decimate being a questionable slot also.

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5 hours ago, Warpstoned said:

My line up was FWIW:

Brisket
Blackheart
Coin
Harry
Mist
Grace
Benediction
A&G
Decimate
Snakeskin

Before i threw Grace & Benny in there I had Minx and oRage. Did not miss Minx, but did think that at least having the tooled up option in the line up would have been sweet. (Did anyone say Quick Foot + Tooled up Blackheart?)

Mascot I could see arguments for either. But I like Coin. Both seems good.

 

Do you have a typical Blackheart list.?

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1 minute ago, Warpstoned said:

Blackheart

Coin

Mist

Grace

Harry

Avarisse & Greede (possibly something else if kicking, like decimate or a tech slot like snakeskin) 

Do you get any take outs with that list?  Seems like your whole game plan is riding on Mist and a kamakazi goal from Greede.

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Game plan is 3-0 or 2-2. Blackheart, Harry, Decimate and Avarisse/Greede can get 2 takeouts just fine. Taking out other harrys is one pretty easy take out.

If you want a more fighty line up, oRage could fit I guess. But alas I didnt have him on the roster for the day. 

But the scoring threat of motivated mist and Blackheart with quick foot back up is pretty strong. 

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5 minutes ago, Warpstoned said:

Game plan is 3-0 or 2-2. Blackheart, Harry, Decimate and Avarisse/Greede can get 2 takeouts just fine. Taking out other harrys is one pretty easy take out.

If you want a more fighty line up, oRage could fit I guess. But alas I didnt have him on the roster for the day. 

But the scoring threat of motivated mist and Blackheart with quick foot back up is pretty strong. 

Do you find Blackheart is capable of scoring on his own?  He's definitely king of double dodges, but his tackle isn't until the third column.  Even charging a defensive stanced 4+/1 it's not guaranteed, to say nothing of close control.

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Yes I do. Rarely the first goal - that is most often mist or greede. But the second, either by himself or a pass to snap shot through mist or greede. 

But yeah sure his tackle is on 3 so there is always a possibility for failure. But he moves a lot for free momentously, has shadowlike and feat and out of 6 influence he can oftentimes get it done. Using bonus time if he needs it. Sometimes using a late momentum generating activation to chain into a next turn first activation score. 

With early goals, grace and coin you do get a lot of inf and bonus times to dump into towards your last points. 

If ball is out of play for the moment, a 6 stack of inf invested into a enemy engaged with one of your other models isn't that bad either. 

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Go with Minx - snare is great condition no matter if you go for kills or try to gimp someone scoring - opponent just must cancel it. On top of that Minx really - if played right - doesn't need influence and is substantial threat without it (if opponent isn't careful from time to time you can catch him on inf shortage and allocate 2 yourself and mop up something he thought was safe)

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Blackheart is my favourite captain in guild and possibly in the game. The boy just offers so much versatility. I had planned to use him at vengeance, but for various reasons I changed it about 15 minutes before the start. However, he has fantastic character plays, great manuavablity and such a bonkers versatile legendary.  My go to 6 recently has been...

Bro-heart 

Turtle 

Mist 

Harrold 

Gutter 

G-Ace 

Although gutter and G-Ace have been the flex slots, I will start mixing it up again and leave Harrold out for a bit.

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I played my first game with Unions against Tapper Brewers and managed to win a narrow 12-11 (2Gls:2KO).

 

My list was:

V.Rage 

Coin (No turtle) 

Minx

 A&G

Harry

Decimate

 

I found Minx and Decimate contributed to this line-up quite well.  The aim was to have Minx partner V.Rage to start off damage output and for Harry or A&G to finish anything off.  Decimate was the lurker for goal opportunities or if influences were available to get some hit in for momentum, ready for initiative roll.   

 

The double dodge and tackle in Decimate playbook is great and I manage to score from this.  I feel Minx compliment V.Rage quite well.  If both are in melee range of an Enemy model, V.Rage can use Red Fury on Minx to get the Snared in, or Minx loaded with 2 influence can try and get attack dodge out of the way and then use furious in again.

 

I haven't tried the crazy bitch Gutter yet with V.Rage.  

 

I feel Union have a strong lineup due to the changes to Minx, A&G and Harry for S3.  They're are likely the foundation for my line-up.  

 

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As a hunter player few games back I had a situation where Minx was heading for a goal with the ball, but she's been beaten down to 3 wounds, knocked down and the ball scattered away.
Luckily I had 1 momentum, so I stood her up, spent 1 inf to attack Stoker to dodge away (causing dmg and snared), retrieved the ball, furiously charged Quaff, to snare him and momentously dodge to be 3" away from goal and scored with SECOND influence, then backed to shadows 8" away to lick her wounds.

She is my best Hunters player, no one elses in my team is this influence efficient.

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