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Nykolae

First turn goal, sure! But what then?

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Hi all,

I've got a strategy question regarding what to do after getting your goal. I'll use a match I played last Wednesday as an example.

Masons: Honour, Marbles, Brick, Mallet, Tower, Flint versus Brewers: Tapper, Scum, Hooper, Spigot, Stave, Mash

He kicks off and the ball ends up perfectly for me to get with Mallet and I start passing the ball around to gain some momentum. In the meanwhile, my opponent is just setting up his pieces for turn 2, already expecting my Superior Strategy turn 1 Flint goal. He positions Scum and Hooper in such a way, that I have to go through the middle to score, which succeeds.

Turn 2 starts with me at 4-0 and I win the initiative roll. The ball is positioned on Spigot, but Flint can easily reach it with Where'd They Go?! and a sprint. My idea was to momentous tackle Spigot, hope for him to not get 3 results on the counterattack for Ball's Gone and make another goal attempt with 3 dice, as I was within 8" of the goal. I know it'd be a death sentence for the striker, but I'd go for a 8-2 VP trade any day. Sadly, he gets his Ball's Gone result and Flint dies soon after. 4-2

Now the Brewers have the ball, but have shown no intention of trying to come and score. His team was fully built around trying to isolate my squad with Stave's barrels (of which I could lessen the impact with Tower's aura somewhat) and just killing the ball around the sidelines, behind his defensive line of Tapper, Hooper, Stave and Scum. Moving up my pieces one by one would be a death sentence, as they'd just get deleted before the rest of the team arrives. Scrumming against Tapper Brewers is never a good option, by the way...

So basically, I tried some stuff with pushing Spigot out of the field with Mallet, after Spigs got too close to the frontline, to try and reset the ball, but I misplayed and couldn't reach Spigs on my Sup. Strat. activation, due to one of Stave's well placed barrels. (I jogged on the first activation, but should've sprinted. I came short 1,5"...) One by one, my guys just got caught out by barrels or pushes into their lines and I wasn't able to get the ball back. And trying to just go into the scrum would've been certain defeat. By the end, my entire team was positioned around my goalpost due to all the pushing and trying to hold off their attack as much as possible, but it all just felt really useless after losing the ball in turn 2.

Lost the game with 5 take-outs (of which twice Marbles) and he just scored with Spigot on his last activation, due to everyone in my team being engaged elsewhere around my goal-post.

So here's my question: what am I supposed to do when my opponent kills the ball with a superior brawler team?

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I played against an opponent who had similar line-up, but had Friday instead of Mash.  I lost 12-10 as I tried to go for the third goal but forgot both Scum and Mash have UM!

 

With a Tapper line-up, they are definitely looking for a fight.  I think your line-up is a good match for his Tapper line-up.  If Flint have ventured that far up field I guess you will have to sacrifice him and lure some of the enemy models to him, so you can set up attacks on one of his models.  I have found out Tapper, Scum, Hooper and Spigot have great synergy between them and are a killing force.  

 

I would use Brick or Tower as the bait for him to engage you and then try to have tooled up for your next attack with Mallet or Honour.  If Marbles can get in there to Assist Honour even better.  For that Brewer's brawl to get going, most of the time they will need Tapper to activate first, to take advantage of Commanding Aura and Old Jake. 

 

Instead of spending too much resources of retrieving the ball, after your first goal.  I would focus on taking out his players. 

 

That's my 2 cent anyway!

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Thanks for the quick response! :)

2 hours ago, naiconn1981 said:

I would use Brick or Tower as the bait for him to engage you and then try to have tooled up for your next attack with Mallet or Honour.

The thing is, I actually really had no say in who to sacrifice, due to Stave's excellent barrel placements. He just kept on separating my entire team, while bringing one in range of his death squad. Stave really messed up my chances there. If I recall correctly, he picked Stave fifth, which only left me with a single pick left, which was Tower, as I needed his aura to not get KD's on my whole team from a single barrel, as Masons like to stick together and buff each other up, before going for a scrum.

2 hours ago, naiconn1981 said:

I think your line-up is a good match for his Tapper line-up.

What would you think of a line-up of all fast characters with decent kick stats to just try and pull apart his group? Something like Honour, Wrecker, Harmony, Flint, Mist and another Mason (thinking of Tower for his decent speed, easy tackle and pushes in the PB, Tooled Up for Honour/Harmony shenanigans, 3/6" KICK stats). If someone gets caught out, they're instantly dead, but all of them have decent-to-good possibilities in getting the ball back, while the rest is killing the sacrificial lamb. The problem with this line-up, I think, is that it's pretty INF inefficient, as everyone actually wants some at some time. At least 1 INF to be able to sprint and keep out of the drunkards' range. ;) I'm not sure if I'd want to take Mist in my 10, though, as I'd get far more done with either AnG or Minx, I'd think. Ideas?

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Minx is very good in the match up as she has a really long range and a good chance of getting screaming banshee off, also marked target will help. Marbles goad is gold in this matchup, if you can split up his team then they will struggle to kill. Barrel lob only has a range of 13.5" you should be able to mitigate the damage a fair bit by spreading out and make sure that it doesn't push you forward. Hammer is also not a bad shout against brewers.

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But what if the brewer doesn't bite? In the lineup described above, if he has the ball he gets to dictate where the game is being played yes? Goad can only do so much...

So you try to stay out of range of tapper with your important guys and try to lure them in with brick or tower, but surely the opponent is not going to go for it blindly? Instead, they might also hover out of your killing range, trying to maneuver a favourable position for them (which is easier with the ball than without, by far) and slowly setting up either a giant scrum (not what you want as the mason player) or some other way to close out the game, either way winning the momentum race through passing and therefore keeping control of the pace of the game. Or counterlure you, because why not? Sure if you isolate a brewer or take their group apart you are in a good spot for scoring some takeouts, but the same goes for them, and in the lineup described above, I think the brewer had the better tools for achieving a break in the mason lineup than vice versa, so the positioning game just becomes incrementally harder I think? 

May be the plan should be to have a tooled up mallet go really far across the pitch and try to takeout an important piece such as spigot or mash? But that is risky if your target survives (and to be honest, if he lets you eat spigot he is either messing something up, or has some other nasty thing in mind for you that is worth sacrificing spigot for), because you just gave him 2 VP and he will likely just heal up the damage after.

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On 2017-5-12 at 6:16 PM, Nykolae said:

What would you think of a line-up of all fast characters with decent kick stats to just try and pull apart his group? Something like Honour, Wrecker, Harmony, Flint, Mist and another Mason (thinking of Tower for his decent speed, easy tackle and pushes in the PB, Tooled Up for Honour/Harmony shenanigans, 3/6" KICK stats).

In response to this, if they are playing Mash (and to a lesser extent Scum) I think you REALLY want Mallet, because 2"UM can really destroy your chances of retrieving the ball with any other player (provided they don't let you get into B2B with him, otherwise you get to have a party with the fat man ending in more goals for you)

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14 minutes ago, Atilla_the_Nun said:

In response to this, if they are playing Mash (and to a lesser extent Scum) I think you REALLY want Mallet, because 2"UM can really destroy your chances of retrieving the ball with any other player (provided they don't let you get into B2B with him, otherwise you get to have a party with the fat man ending in more goals for you)

This should not be a huge problem with Honour, Harmony, Flint ánd Mist in the team, who all have dodge abilities to counteract the UM, are all faster than him and have easy access to tackles on their first column, of which only Mist's is non-momentous. With Mash's only KD result being on column 4, the only thing he might reliably be able to do is tackle the ball back. Sure, this'll be pretty INF inefficient, due to the INF costs of the dodge, the tackles and the pass out, but when you're only going for goals, not having the ball is even more inefficient. ;)

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Oh, forgot Howzat also has KD.

Still though. TAC5 against 3+/2 (Honour) or 4+/1 (Flint) or 5+/0 (Harmony/Mist) means rolling 5x3+'s (13,2%), 4x4+'s (18,8%) or 3x5+'s (21%), while I have a 89% (TAC4) or 98% (TAC6) chance on getting a good tackle per attack.

But sure, I agree, Mallet is the most surefire way of getting the ball back without any repercussions. UM doesn't activate, no counterattacks. I guess taking Mallet over Tower is still the better way to go then. Then I'll have 5 ways of getting stuff off of Mash! And when receiving, it's even easier to get those momentum-generating passes off! :P

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I think due to Brewers base movement and reach they will can quickly gang up on your isolated players.  The Brewers themselves have good goal scorers so if your team is two spread out, you're inviting their team to score.  

 

I did try a footballing side against the Butchers ages a ago, but looking for the third goal could be quite difficult as they gradually grind down your team.  I personally would not replicate the Fishermen footballing style with the Masons.  

 

Best to give it a try.  A&G are good to have for this as well.  

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