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Mason's Team Selection and changes to Roster Size

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New and updated Organised Play Rules document has been released with a key change being that they have expanded the roster size to 10 players. The 1-2 model restriction on both Captains and Mascots remains unaffected.

Will this be an excuse to take both Captain's and both Mascot's within the expanded roster?

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Certainly one or the other with a pretty reasonable maybe to both.  Definitely a helpful change, though we'll benefit way more from having to reveal Captains first regardless. :)

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-Honour + Marbles

-Hammer + Wrecker

-Harmony

-Flint

-Brick

-Mallet

-Tower

-A&G/Minx (Though I suggest A&G)

 

Mason's Tournament 9 Always felt a bit too tight, because we're a team that wants either both captains and both mascots, or only one captain and one mascot.

If you choose the former, Harmony and Brick were pretty much auto-locked for your Honour/Marbles teams, and your other 3 were almost always Flint, Mallet/Tower, and a Union Player. Being forced to choose between Mallet and Tower hurts, because Tower is huge for Hammer teams, but Mallet is useful in both. Now that the limit is up to 10, you can have your cake, and eat it too.

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My initial thoughts on a Mason's Tournament 10, we're going to be pure Guild, with the line-up being as follows:

  • Hammer + Wrecker
  • Harmony + Marbles
  • Flint
  • Brick
  • Mallet
  • Tower
  • Chisel
  • Granite

Mallet would likely make all line-ups and possibly Brick, however the remainder would be chosen to fit the line-up building up in front of me.

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@Stephen78 indicated in the OPD forum post that the new drafting rules kind of put double captain Masons on the back foot in his mind.

I'm still going to try to make it work.

For now:

  1. Honour
  2. Hammer
  3. Marbles
  4. Brick
  5. Flint
  6. Mallet
  7. Harmony
  8. Tower
  9. Minx
  10. Chisel/vHarmony

The flex spot kind of depends on how some of the match ups end up. I'm also considering switching Minx to Snakeskin and see if you can play Hammer into Shark with heavy ball denial.

If Hammer doesn't work out I'd say Hour can really bring a lot of toys to playground.

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@HuggyTheBear yes i think that hammer has some horrible match ups because he is very one dimensional and its mainly about him....he minimally supports the rest of the team.

The 4 you take with hammer are probably going to contain the same 3 models. Most likely brick, tower, mallet...this gives you a forth probably flint/minx. Because he pretty much needs these choices or they are the optimal choices you aren't really going to be counter picking like you will with some teams.

So in my mind if hammer is put down and they reveal a captain he struggles with or cant deal with, then because your remaining members are pretty set this is more list chicken than id like.

There is also no real benifit to kick at all. The last pick choice has minimal impact for a masons team. Being able to receive and deny your opponent the chance to gain mp, take dodges and most likely score first is a big advantage. Previously youd choose to kick to gain the edge in captain picks and get hammer a favourable match up and him up the field threatening.....now if that match up is bad due to the way captains are picked i cant see the benifit if you win the roll and have the choice.

This might change if more models are released, ones that have different purposes. Engineers would be a good example where you can counter pick compound and vet velocity through the pick process vs certain line ups....but since masons pretty much play the same 3 depending on captain choice...at present it doesnt.

The rest of the changes i have no issue with.

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2 minutes ago, Stephen78 said:

@HuggyTheBear yes i think that hammer has some horrible match ups because he is very one dimensional and its mainly about him....he minimally supports the rest of the team.

The 4 you take with hammer are probably going to contain the same 3 models. Most likely brick, tower, mallet...this gives you a forth probably flint/minx. Because he pretty much needs these choices or they are the optimal choices you aren't really going to be counter picking like you will with some teams.

So in my mind if hammer is put down and they reveal a captain he struggles with or cant deal with, then because your remaining members are pretty set this is more list chicken than id like.

There is also no real benifit to kick at all. The last pick choice has minimal impact for a masons team. Being able to receive and deny your opponent the chance to gain mp, take dodges and most likely score first is a big advantage. Previously youd choose to kick to gain the edge in captain picks and get hammer a favourable match up and him up the field threatening.....now if that match up is bad due to the way captains are picked i cant see the benifit if you win the roll and have the choice.

This might change if more models are released, ones that have different purposes. Engineers would be a good example where you can counter pick compound and vet velocity through the pick process vs certain line ups....but since masons pretty much play the same 3 depending on captain choice...at present it doesnt.

The rest of the changes i have no issue with.

Perhaps try to get more mileage out of his heroic? Or play more defensive, using him as an enforcer. Not saying it is easy, but I'm not yet giving up :-D.

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@HuggyTheBear

The heroic is good but mainly its going to be used on mallet. If your kicking you can not use it turn one unless your opponent allows you to generate mp, so the only player that can threaten is hammer himself ....so people play around that bubble. 

I think youd still need to play marbles with him over wrecker because of the chance youll kick and you need the defensive tech of 2 counter charges. I love wrecker and want to use him, but he can't bring enough to outshine the benifit of the areas of control you exert. 

I guess well see this weekend how it comes out in the wash, but im now re-evaluating what team and the team selection to play, and considering if i can even take hammer. I hope that my take on it is wrong!

As an example. I can build a vet rage or blackheart team to counter pick and play football or damage. Both have ways around unpredictable, elements of control within a team, threat range extenders, damage buffs....counter pick choices within the 10players that then reward the higher skilled player as they react to their opponents choices.

 

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Currently, my locked spots are probably:

- Honour
- Marbles
- Wrecker
- Harmony
- Flint
- Brick
- Mallet
- Tower

Considerations for the last 2 slots are:

- Hammer
- Chisel
- Minx
- A&G

Right now, my gut says Hammer/Minx, but I need to put in some time with Chisel vs Fish now that its a real option.  Personally, I think she's still a little subpar, but I'm willing to give her a shot.

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I like the extra slot for Masons as it's so tight, I was tempted to go Hammer only to give me more options (I prefer playing with Hammer to Honour - she just isn't as fun). With the extra slot I might stay 2 captain for now:

  • Hammer
  • Honour
  • Marbles
  • Harmony
  • Brick
  • Flint
  • Mallet
  • Tower
  • Minx
  • vHarmony/Wrecker/Chisel

I did play Wrecker as my only mascot but I've found in friendlies since Marbles + Brick is amazing even with Hammer. Minx is good for Hammer-prep and INF, the rest would be self explanatory. I'd prefer to use Hammer in most games, but vs. Alchemists or Morts would most likely go with Honour to avoid the UM.

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Im actually super happy about this change as i prefer to have a two captain lineup though more often than not i use Hammer due to most of the teams i end up playing. (I prefer Hammer into fish) I still think the selection is difficult sadly lol but id choose:

Hammer

Honour

Wrecker

Marbles

Brick

Flint

Mallet

Tower

Harmony

Chisel/Minx (This one is still tough for me as i like Minx in my Hammer lineup, but i like Chisel into Fish)

Sadly as much as i want to consider Granite as an option i cant, she still needs some tweeking i feel to make her a candidate. V. Harmony i find is in the same boat.

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5 hours ago, Lord Antoine said:

Im actually super happy about this change as i prefer to have a two captain lineup though more often than not i use Hammer due to most of the teams i end up playing. (I prefer Hammer into fish) I still think the selection is difficult sadly lol but id choose:

Hammer

Honour

Wrecker

Marbles

Brick

Flint

Mallet

Tower

Harmony

Chisel/Minx (This one is still tough for me as i like Minx in my Hammer lineup, but i like Chisel into Fish)

Sadly as much as i want to consider Granite as an option i cant, she still needs some tweeking i feel to make her a candidate. V. Harmony i find is in the same boat.

You could cut wrecker and play both! While wrecker is pretty fun and free sprinting is pretty useful, the monkey is still useable if brick is in the line up.

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True, sadly(or not so sadly) Wrecker has actually proved "too" useful in a Hammer lineup. In every tourny ive played there hasnt been one where he hasnt proved his worth. Hammer cant reach someone, boom now he can, someones too crowded out? not anymore, or someone is about to grab the ball and score well now they are engaged and have to spend some of their inf dealing with him (all for free). On top of that there are also several instances i will use mallet instead of Brick and having only the monkey means i always have to run Brick for him to be of any use. For instance when im running against Fish(which is alot) I usually go with Hammer, Wrecker, Mallet, Flint, Tower, Chisel. I never want to run both Brick and Mallet against them because they nullify Brick too easily and now i have two very slow models on the field who just cant keep up.

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I have an event next week and have been wondering how to build a list. My previous 9 were:

  • Hammer
  • Honour
  • Harmony
  • Wrecker
  • Brick
  • Mallet
  • Tower
  • Flint
  • Minx

In some friendly games a month or two ago, I found I really like Brick and Marbles with Hammer, as those two can hold an entire side of the pitch. Wrecker hasn't been as great for me, but I can see how him in the list would reduce the pressure to take Brick every game just to make sure Marbles is pulling his wait (Goad is pretty good though). I had a good game with vHarmony last time I tried her, as she was able to absorb a killing blow from vKat on Mallet, then remove the :KD: on Mallet and Brick, freeing them up to pound on vKat and gen some MP, so I'm torn between which of those to add as a 10th.

@Lord Antoine's Minx/Chisel is interesting, as although I like Minx (efficient, high speed, sets up Mallet and Hammer), 2" melee is really good. It's really hard to build this list still. Should I take both mascots, and if I do, should I have Minx or Chisel?

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I am a massive fan of just using marbles and taking minx and chisel. Marbles counter charge is brilliant, even when you don't get a charge off the time they waste to give you clock superiority is worth it. I have also found goad more and more useful.

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On 5/19/2017 at 7:01 PM, S_A_T_S said:

Should I take both mascots, and if I do, should I have Minx or Chisel?

Id say its really down to how you play. I took both mascots (and as much as it pains me to say this) dropped Minx from my list in the last event i went to. I did this simply because of the current meta, which "surprise" I ended up fighting Fish two of my games the main day of the tourny so it ended up working out well. That being said if you find you have better experiences with Marbles against Fish or your other games then go with what you are comfortable with. Are they sure they cant bump the roster selection to 12? :) 

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I took the following 10 players:

  • Hammer
  • Honour
  • Harmony
  • Marbles
  • Brick
  • Mallet
  • Tower
  • Flint
  • Minx
  • vetHarmony

vetHarmony is a bit of an experiment. I have some ideas in which match-ups I'd like to try her. Chisel is just too niche for my taste. I'm also going to try Decimate and perhaps even Snakeskin in the Union-slot. Minx always delivers but I don't think she is needed with Honour and Hammer is there for specific match-ups where I might get away without her. 

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The following 7 players are those that are auto-includes for me:

  • Honour
  • Hammer
  • Mallet
  • Tower
  • oHarmony
  • Flint
  • Brick

At the moment, I'm torn about who to pick as well for my upcoming Big League. My meta will consist of Midas/Smoke Alchemists, Tapper/Esters Brewers, Shark/Corsair Fishermen, (I think) Ox-Fillet Butchers and someone who's going to play either Union, Engineers or Morticians for the first time. 

  • Do I go with only one or both mascots, and if I pick only one, which one?

I can see merit in taking either Marbles or Wrecker, but with Marbles I'm too concerned with háving to pick Brick to make him viable enough as a pick. Also, I'm thinking of going full beater with Hammer and playing the footballing game with Honour. Wrecker has merit in both, while Marbles (and Brick) aren't really the footbally types, so I'm thinking of just picking Wrecker.

  • Will I get a Union pick, or choose to stay pure-Guild and pick between Granite, Chisel and vHarmony? And if I do pick a Union member, which one?

In my opinion, Chisel should only be playing against Shark Fishermen, as against any other team, she'll hit the dust way too fast. Granite is very slow, but can easily hold the midfield on her own, which can be useful in a Hammer line-up. vHarmony might also work, but she's very situational and required loads of setup.

The Union picks: AnG can be used in both the Hammer and Honour line-ups dependably, Mist can work as a nice third striker in the Honour team, Minx is the ideal setup piece for Hammer, Snakeskin is a very nice ball-carrier and Decimate can really get some work done damage-wise, while still being hyper-mobile. 

When only picking Wrecker, I'm thinking of taking both Granite and Minx with me for the Hammer line-up. With both Marbles and Wrecker, it might just end up with me just picking AnG for both teams. But I'm just not sure.

Of course, there's also the fact that I've never even played a serious game with either Hammer, Wrecker, Granite, AnG, Minx, Decimate and Snakeskin. :P

Any thoughts?

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2 hours ago, Nykolae said:

The following 7 players are those that are auto-includes for me:

  • Honour
  • Hammer
  • Mallet
  • Tower
  • oHarmony
  • Flint
  • Brick

At the moment, I'm torn about who to pick as well for my upcoming Big League. My meta will consist of Midas/Smoke Alchemists, Tapper/Esters Brewers, Shark/Corsair Fishermen, (I think) Ox-Fillet Butchers and someone who's going to play either Union, Engineers or Morticians for the first time. 

  • Do I go with only one or both mascots, and if I pick only one, which one?

I can see merit in taking either Marbles or Wrecker, but with Marbles I'm too concerned with háving to pick Brick to make him viable enough as a pick. Also, I'm thinking of going full beater with Hammer and playing the footballing game with Honour. Wrecker has merit in both, while Marbles (and Brick) aren't really the footbally types, so I'm thinking of just picking Wrecker.

  • Will I get a Union pick, or choose to stay pure-Guild and pick between Granite, Chisel and vHarmony? And if I do pick a Union member, which one?

In my opinion, Chisel should only be playing against Shark Fishermen, as against any other team, she'll hit the dust way too fast. Granite is very slow, but can easily hold the midfield on her own, which can be useful in a Hammer line-up. vHarmony might also work, but she's very situational and required loads of setup.

The Union picks: AnG can be used in both the Hammer and Honour line-ups dependably, Mist can work as a nice third striker in the Honour team, Minx is the ideal setup piece for Hammer, Snakeskin is a very nice ball-carrier and Decimate can really get some work done damage-wise, while still being hyper-mobile. 

When only picking Wrecker, I'm thinking of taking both Granite and Minx with me for the Hammer line-up. With both Marbles and Wrecker, it might just end up with me just picking AnG for both teams. But I'm just not sure.

Of course, there's also the fact that I've never even played a serious game with either Hammer, Wrecker, Granite, AnG, Minx, Decimate and Snakeskin. :P

Any thoughts?

If you dont forsee yourself going up against shark fisherman very often id drop Chisel for a Union choice and personally Granite is too slow to make it in my roster for now.

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19 minutes ago, Lord Antoine said:

If you dont forsee yourself going up against shark fisherman very often id drop Chisel for a Union choice and personally Granite is too slow to make it in my roster for now.

Why wouldn't you expect to go against Shark very often?  Fish are the second most popular team, at least in the US tournament scene.

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49 minutes ago, MechMage said:

Why wouldn't you expect to go against Shark very often?  Fish are the second most popular team, at least in the US tournament scene.

Correct especially in tournies, thats why i usually bring Chisel.

When i said that i was reffering to @Nykolae's meta as he stated: "My meta will consist of Midas/Smoke Alchemists, Tapper/Esters Brewers, Shark/Corsair Fishermen, (I think) Ox-Fillet Butchers and someone who's going to play either Union, Engineers or Morticians for the first time. "

So it depends on how many players are playing each of these teams and how often he forsees playing the Fish player. If its only a single Fish player who is a no show most of the time I wouldnt curve my list around him.

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1 hour ago, Lord Antoine said:

Correct especially in tournies, thats why i usually bring Chisel.

When i said that i was reffering to @Nykolae's meta as he stated: "My meta will consist of Midas/Smoke Alchemists, Tapper/Esters Brewers, Shark/Corsair Fishermen, (I think) Ox-Fillet Butchers and someone who's going to play either Union, Engineers or Morticians for the first time. "

So it depends on how many players are playing each of these teams and how often he forsees playing the Fish player. If its only a single Fish player who is a no show most of the time I wouldnt curve my list around him.

Whoops.  I clearly should have read his post more closely.

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I'm all in on Marbles. The double countercharge bubble is the base of the team and assisting Honour turns her into a murdering machine. Goad can be backbreaking. For the Union slot I kind of flounder between Minx and Decimate, both are good but fill a different role. 

The last slot is a bit of whatever slot: Granite is rather meh, Chisel too niche, Wrecker can be interesting but I never play him over ze monkey. In the end vetHarmony kind of has some marginally utility, I guess/hope?  

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@HuggyTheBearI guess we'll be able to discuss it to some length upcoming tourney in Hasselt in late June. ;) What, in your opinion, makes Decimate also a good pick? Is it her ability to deal decent damage ánd be very mobile? Or maybe is her Second Wind ability so hugely important?

@Lord Antoine @MechMage All of the mentioned teams are played once, and the League will be a double round robin, so I'm going to play Fish only twice. I don't think that's enough reason to bring Chisel with me.  Thanks for the insights, though!

 

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