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Diamond Souls

Let's talk about the 4 heros for now!

Let's talk about the 4 heros  

39 members have voted

  1. 1. Which character do you enjoy playing the most?

    • Knight
      16
    • Warrior
      9
    • Assassin
      8
    • Herald
      6
  2. 2. In general, what makes you like him the most?

    • I am a Pain Train
      7
    • I am a Moving Fortress
      12
    • I am a Tactician
      10
    • I am the Healer
      5
    • You Shall Not Pass!
      3
    • RNG is my philosophy
      2
  3. 3. Do you think the heros are well-balanced?

    • Yes
      26
    • No
      13


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The Knight is mandatory. The Knight, in it's starting equipment, is the only class that has reasonable odds for killing Silver Knights, has significantly better defenses than the other classes, and adds some of the best items to the deck. The Knight is better than every other class in nearly every way. Playing without the Knight is basically playing on hard mode.

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47 minutes ago, Khift said:

The Knight is mandatory. The Knight, in it's starting equipment, is the only class that has reasonable odds for killing Silver Knights, has significantly better defenses than the other classes, and adds some of the best items to the deck. The Knight is better than every other class in nearly every way. Playing without the Knight is basically playing on hard mode.

The warrior can dodge crossbow hollows, kill 2 enemies on the same mode and his class gear gives him the big wooden hammer. His basic attacks also cost zero stamina, effectively giving him more HP :P

 

I respect yet disagree with your opinion :)

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Equip the knight with 2 shields and some armour; tank the world. 

You can pretty much cheese every encounter this way; most attacks do 4-6 damage and with your knight rolling 3+ blue for defence it is unlikely he will take damage. 

We watched our knight get knocked around the board like a pinball for several turns by a sentinel and some silver knights - hilarious!

Though it made us realise just how many enemies (including bosses) have knock back. But then, if they did not, the game would be a rather static affair

 

I cannot condone this build; its funny for a few encounters but then you realise it breaks the game somewhat...

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38 minutes ago, Danny said:

The warrior can dodge crossbow hollows, kill 2 enemies on the same mode and his class gear gives him the big wooden hammer. His basic attacks also cost zero stamina, effectively giving him more HP :P

 

I respect yet disagree with your opinion :)

I'll admit that my opinions were formed by the two playthroughs I've completed. In those we saw I believe two crossbow hollows and they did not do much at all to us and so I don't really consider them to be a threat; sure it is damage but it's not that much. Silver Knights, however, were everywhere. Across the four level 1 encounters three of them had two Silver Knights in them and the last had one, and the level two encounters frequently had 3 or more with one of the encounters having 5 of the blasted things. In the playthrough with the Warrior instead of the Knight the Warrior was completely toothless; his weapon is too inaccurate to be able to harm the Silver Knights except on very good rolls, Silver Knight Swordsmen almost categorically never bunch up onto the same square unless you're doing some very unusual ping-pong movement with 3+ of them so the Warrior's AoE capability never mattered and the Warrior's lower defensive capacity led to him getting turned to mulch much faster than the Knight did in the second game. All told, across the two games we came to the conclusion that the Warrior was the weakest of the four classes by a longshot.

Really, the problem here is that the monsters aren't balanced and it reflects badly on the classes. When everything that actually matters has two armor from the word go then having two black dice just isn't enough to reliably deal with them and you need the one class who starts with a weapon that is actually better than most of the 'early game' (e.g. needs very few stats) weapons in the equipment deck to deal with them. In the game we played the Knight's sword and his armor actually got worn by someone else once he cast them off because they were better than the low-stat items we were finding in the equipment deck.

 

As for the other classes, the Herald's talisman is fantastic we found. The Herald was nice because you don't need to invest much in him; give him some armor and let him use that talisman as a force multiplier and call it a day. Healing the stamina off of a player who uses the heavy attack on a weapon worth using, whether that be the Knight with his starter sword or another weapon you've equipped onto someone, basically doubles the value of the investment the group put into that weapon, and that's a hell of a thing. Eventually if you find a good weapon you can move him to a less support based role, but once you get addicted to it you might find that it is worth keeping.

The Assassin we only played with once and that one time we got very lucky and found a lot of good early game magic for him to use -- and so he used that. I feel that without an item to replace the Assassin's starting weapon then he's in the same category as the Warrior, a class that can only attack that can't actually damage the main enemy in the game, but thankfully our Assassin did not have to stay there for long. Additionally, including the Assassin is the only way a person can realistically get four dodge dice, and at that point dodging becomes very much worth doing; without the Assassin getting even three dodge dice is stretching it and dodging with three dice is... well, it's twice as risky as four is. I can certainly say I've missed enough 3 dice kicks in Guild Ball to know how often these things go bad. Overall I'm lukewarm on the Assassin -- his starting gear is bad, but his class gear is very good, and he makes it easier to use pyromancy spells whereas the other classes are far less adept at that.

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I refuse to choose! (Either that or I'm indecisive.) I like all 4 starting classes for different reasons, and that only gets worse when I start considering the other 6 classes. Even my least favourite classes out of the gate, Thief and Deprived, have some *really* compelling reasons to take them!

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2 hours ago, DC said:

I refuse to choose! (Either that or I'm indecisive.) I like all 4 starting classes for different reasons, and that only gets worse when I start considering the other 6 classes. Even my least favourite classes out of the gate, Thief and Deprived, have some *really* compelling reasons to take them!

Only if SFG manages them properly, I have no ideas on others, but for deprive, I think they will give the loincloth two dodge dice. The club they hold might be pretty powerful though (must be better than Estoc, or deprived is just another rolling ball keeping dodging all the time.???

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3 hours ago, Khift said:

and he makes it easier to use pyromancy spells whereas the other classes are far less adept at that.

That raises a good question, so do certain characters have to grind more than others in order to be powerful? 

It's likely to be negative no matter the answer, and that's the current situation with this game. Range attack and spells are not good enough to replace a stable shield. SFG really needs to make haste giving us better dex weapons and stronger spells, since the 4 characters for now are melee-oriented, as a matter of fact.

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10 minutes ago, Diamond Souls said:

That raises a good question, so do certain characters have to grind more than others in order to be powerful? 

It's likely to be negative no matter the answer, and that's the current situation with this game. Range attack and spells are not good enough to replace a stable shield. SFG really needs to make haste giving us better dex weapons and stronger spells, since the 4 characters for now are melee-oriented, as a matter of fact.

Well the observation we had is that the Assassin had enough intelligence on tier 2 to wield all of the non-epic spells we found whereas the other classes needed to go to tier 3 to use many of them. This enabled us to have the Assassin wielding a good spell before we even finished our first clear, as 6 souls to get his int to tier 2 is quite affordable. We also found magic to be quite useful as many enemies have lower magic defense than armor -- Silver Knight Swordsmen have only 1 and Silver Knight Bowmen had actually 0 if I remember correctly. The mini-boss we selected, the Winged Knight, had 1 magic defense as opposed to his armor of 3, which made a spell-slinging Assassin very effective.

The problem with dex weapons is the same problem I noted above -- everything has too bloody much armor. Attacking multiple times with medium strength attacks is just so much worse than attacking once with a strong attack. With a dex weapon build you end up making two attacks against the final boss and do 1 to 2 damage each whereas a heavy hit from a two hander can easily do 8 or 9 on a good roll. There's pretty much only one way around flat damage reduction and that way is really big attacks...

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2 hours ago, Khift said:

There's pretty much only one way around flat damage reduction and that way is really big attacks...

I do kinda wish it had been balance end so that enemies had more HP, but damage reduction meant you still did a minimum of 1 damage.... That said, there's less counting this way :P

The assassin has some fantastic loot when you equip him right. Masters attire has 2 dodge dice for 8 souls to level into from the start. The scimitar is an early weapon that's great. The hornet ring does an orange die -1 damage on top of all regular damage (his class starting loot) and the bow turns him into an amazingly hard to hit character.

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Loving the Assassin at the moment. He's a great distraction for enemies that attack the closest player. Couple that with his ability to equip magic fairly early on and he becomes a great and fun character to play as.

Warrior and Herald are iffy for me at the moment. Herald plays nicely with miracles, but the warrior seems to feel mediocre to me. Still need to play more, maybe I'll change my mind on him at some point.

Knight can block like there's no tomorrow. The claymore gives him so much damage output.

All in all I'm loving the majority of the cast at the moment. Great game, fun and so challenging.

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1 hour ago, Archangel said:

 

CASUL!!!!

Lol. Nah, I like a mixture of up close and personal and to be able to strike from afar. Done me proud completing every souls borne game and add ons so far. Sure it will work for the board game too. 

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34 minutes ago, Cyberfizz said:

Lol. Nah, I like a mixture of up close and personal and to be able to strike from afar. Done me proud completing every souls borne game and add ons so far. Sure it will work for the board game too. 

Nah man, I'm sure you're not a casual. About to try my first caster build ever on DkS3. Not yet tried one in the board game

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I need to play more but I can't really choose a class play-wise. I like the Herald's mini a lot :3

On 5/8/2017 at 8:54 PM, DC said:

I refuse to choose! (Either that or I'm indecisive.) I like all 4 starting classes for different reasons, and that only gets worse when I start considering the other 6 classes. Even my least favourite classes out of the gate, Thief and Deprived, have some *really* compelling reasons to take them!

Grr, stop teasing! :wacko:

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10 hours ago, LoreFromAstora said:

Something on topic, which Danny is not specifically responding to .

Heya mate! was wondering if you'd get back on the Forums. :D

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Hi all,

I get some troubles with assassin character.

First it's weapon is quite weak to hit correctly hollow soldiers and crossbow hollows, so often I have to use second attack which cost 3 stamina.

Ok he has a really good evasion, and does wonders with basic stuff, if enemy's attack dodge level is 1.

Unfortunately, there is really few items with evasion, and others are using too much strength or faith.

He can reroll mage, with high intelligence, even armor but if he lose dodge, he would lose his special ability ...

 

So I wonder how you are playing this character, and how you equip him.

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Herald doesn't make sense to me if you can't use the Talisman in the backup slot. If you have to remove his weapon or shield to provide some stamina recovery he is left very vulnerable. This doesn't make sense to how he plays in the game, where you can keep your block up and poke from a distance. 

I did a solo play with a Knight which was a lot of fun. He is incredibly tanky. Went up against the Dancer and laughed off most of her attacks as they were primarily physical. 

My friends have loved playing as the Assassin so far. Rolling all over the place and throwing Fireballs. I haven't played as him yet but does look good.

I've tried the Warrior who is quite close to the Knight. When I played the Silver Knight Shield was the best weapon I could find for him for a long time so rocking double-shields.

Need to play more!

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I've soloed through the Boreal knight to (and defeated - just) O & S using the Warrior. Had several gear loadouts that worked well against the miniboss and all encounters but took a while to find gear and tactics that would get through the O & S heat up phase after tanking all of their early attacks. I like the warrior.

I played the assassin in my last 4 player game. Struggled to put much damage on anything but mostly due to poor weapon availability and not realising how good blood gem plus poison dagger would have been (I had a titanite shard to cancel the -1 damage on the dagger, 3 automatic condition damage is way better).

Not played the knight myself yet but in that 4-player ours was an indestructable tank for block and resist (and ignored pushes). Looked like no fun at all (and we still lost because the fireball toting herald got zapped by Ormstein and we'd spent all the souls armouring the knight).

Currently soloing towards the Dancer as Herald. Bit trickier that the warrior run (the winged knight's armour was a sod to get past) but I am running with my custom hard mode dice now which all have a blank face so there is no guaranteed tanking of incoming damage with anyone. Much more fun.

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ive played 5 solo-playtroughs so far, 1 with each class (2 with the knight) (not counting my first runs to grasp most of the rules)

for me the assasin and herald attempt were the easiest. the warrior the worst (could not kill miniboss) and the first attempt with the knight (still playing wrong because of not understanding all the rules yet) was also pretty horrible, but i have a strong feeling that this was not due to character imbalance as much as it was due to good treasure RNG on good runs.

the most fun run i had was the knight on the second run, which felt like the game was intended. died once in a medium encounter, twice at the boss before killing it. 

i could really 'feel' the difference between a boss encounter from simply applying a single weapon upgrade.

The game is probably pretty well balanced, but like many (video) games also requires good luck. luck in games is not always a bad thing, random loot is a part of many videogames for example (not a big factor in Dark Souls though) and it can feel satisfying to get that piece of shiny armor that you really needed. but on other nights you keep drawing that piece of titanite without drawing that weapon you can actually attach it to XD.

Its not keeping me from having fun with it anyways, as i dont know how much fun the game would be if i beat every encounter flawlessly :), looking forward to start playing with more (which will be soon :D) and seeing how this will affect the balance.

 

 

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