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Chadmango

Rules clarification concerning pushes and node limits!

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Hi folks,

Just played through my first game last night and have a couple of questions:

At the start of an encounter I had my two characters on the same entrance node; two hollows were spawned on one node and they moved towards the nearest player. This meant that there were four minis on the one node. The rules state that only three can be on a node, so I was moving one hollow back to it's starting node. I think this was allowed within the rules!?

 

The silver knights do a push when they do damage (I think). If there are two silver nights on a single node with a player and the first attack from the Knight does damage, then my understanding is that the player is then pushed resulting in the second Knight not being able to attack?

 

Thanks in advance!

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Hi,

this should help:

As soon as the active model moves onto a node with 3 models on, push one of these 3 models - choosen by the players - immediately of that node, before resolving any following actions (like attacks, movement pushes)! Means, the model that got pushed because of the "Node Model Limit" would not be hit by a potential range 0 attack, assuming that the movement of the active model would end its turn on that node. If the active model still has movement remaining, and the target is not on the same node (since it just got pushed), it will move/follow.

Remember though, boss models cannot be pushed by a character’s movement or attack. The only way a boss model can be pushed is if another boss model moves onto its node in a boss encounter with multiple boss models.

 

About the Silver Knight. The first one activates, doesn't move since you are already on the same node. So, it attacks and if you block (not dodge), you will get pushed to any adjacent node. Then the second one activates and determine who is the target first. If it's not on the same node (which can't be the case here), it moves towards the determined target.

Clear? :)

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58 minutes ago, Chadmango said:

1. I was moving one hollow back to it's starting node. I think this was allowed within the rules!?

 

2.The silver knights do a push when they do damage (I think). If there are two silver nights on a single node with a player and the first attack from the Knight does damage, then my understanding is that the player is then pushed resulting in the second Knight not being able to attack?

1. Correct.

 

2. My understanding of the silver knights is their attack at zero range hits all characters on a node and then pushes them.

 

@Replect rules say any character hit by the attack is pushed in this instance. So the silver knights having a nodal attack means both models would normally get pushed, I think!

 

Edit: that is, assuming I'm remembering the card right. I can't check it right now.

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Just to make sure this was done right:

The whole encounter is set up, including the enemy models. And THEN you place your Charakters. 

 

Situation with the 2 Silver Knights:

After the first one attacked, he pushes every charakter model off its node. Then the second one acts and he still can move and attack. So he is able to attack after his movement. 

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I see how I got the silver kinght AI card wrong now. I was attacking with one, because he obviously couldn't move as he was on the same node, but then after the push I was missing out the second nights initial move.

 

Yes I was setting up the ecounters and then placing my characters.

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2 hours ago, Danny said:

rules say any character hit by the attack is pushed in this instance. So the silver knights having a nodal attack means both models would normally get pushed, I think!

His example with the Silver Knight though has been this "there are two silver nights on a single node with a player". So, there is only 1 character and the Silver Knight doesn't push other enemies... :)

If there would have been only 1 Silver Knight with 2 characters on the same node, then yes, both would have been attacked/pushed...

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1 hour ago, Replect said:

His example with the Silver Knight though has been this "there are two silver nights on a single node with a player". So, there is only 1 character and the Silver Knight doesn't push other enemies... :)

If there would have been only 1 Silver Knight with 2 characters on the same node, then yes, both would have been attacked/pushed...

I think I misread it as: 2 characters and 2 silver knights in that case!

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Just now, Danny said:

I think I misread it as: 2 characters and 2 silver knights in that case!

What is not possible because of the Node Model Limit, and in that case one of the models (either enemy or character) would get pushed immediately by the players, before any other action would get resolved!

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31 minutes ago, Replect said:

What is not possible because of the Node Model Limit, and in that case one of the models (either enemy or character) would get pushed immediately by the players, before any other action would get resolved!

I mean, when the first knight attacks, it would push both characters, so potentially you could both move to the same mode. And knight 2 would attack both if you again (the alternative would have to be bad for this to the preferred option, though)

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57 minutes ago, Danny said:

I mean, when the first knight attacks, it would push both characters, so potentially you could both move to the same mode. And knight 2 would attack both if you again (the alternative would have to be bad for this to the preferred option, though)

I miss something or you are missing something! :D Do you mean when 2 Knight and 2 characters are on the same node? Because as said that is not possible and one will be pushed before any of these models would activate.

If you mean 1 Knight would be on another node still in range to move in after the first Knight attacked and pushed, then yes, the second Knight could attack too. But I if there are no other naughty enemies around, why would you want to have both characters been pushed on the same node from the first Knight?

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46 minutes ago, Replect said:

I miss something or you are missing something! :D Do you mean when 2 Knight and 2 characters are on the same node? Because as said that is not possible and one will be pushed before any of these models would activate.

If you mean 1 Knight would be on another node still in range to move in after the first Knight attacked and pushed, then yes, the second Knight could attack too. But I if there are no other naughty enemies around, why would you want to have both characters been pushed on the same node from the first Knight?

 

48 minutes ago, Replect said:

I miss something or you are missing something! :D Do you mean when 2 Knight and 2 characters are on the same node? Because as said that is not possible and one will be pushed before any of these models would activate.

If you mean 1 Knight would be on another node still in range to move in after the first Knight attacked and pushed, then yes, the second Knight could attack too. But I if there are no other naughty enemies around, why would you want to have both characters been pushed on the same node from the first Knight?

I mean, say 2 knights are on node A,  and 2 characters are on node b.

 

The silver knights activation order is determined by the player, because their threat level is the same.

So: knight 1 runs in and attacks, (as that is its full activation) the attack will then push both characters.

 

Then: Knight 2 moves and attacks, correct?

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Worth pointing out that with regards to 1 (2 Hollow soldiers) both soldiers still get to attack. Enemies activate in order, not simultaneously, even when they share a threat level (this just means the players decide which order they activate in). So Hollow 1 would move in, attack. Then Hollow 2 would move in, pushing out Hollow 1, and attack.

Worth making a note of in case people think that both soldiers move on and they can push one out before it gets to attack. That said there's plenty of ways to use the model limit advantageously.

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6 minutes ago, Rejusu said:

So Hollow 1 would move in, attack. Then Hollow 2 would move in, pushing out Hollow 1, and attack.

Not necessarily! Players decide which model will be pushed because of the Node Model Limit. So, you can also decide to push one of the characters!

If you have an enemy that does its full movement onto a node with 3 characters (or any other combination) and the attacks target is the character with aggro (who is also on that node) with range 0, the moment it moves onto that node, you can decide to push the character with aggro, which results in that the enemy will not be able to attack.

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True. I was just using the example given. Pushing characters rather than enemies is generally a more advantageous way to use the node limit. Tends to only be useful when you have one character on a node with two enemies though (as you can push the character off before they get hit by a range zero attack). As in the core set only the ranged mobs target the player with aggro for their attacks. All the melee mobs are closest player, the trick could. Though if you don't want the character with aggro to be hit or the attack targets the entire node then pushing a character off still helps.

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1 hour ago, Rejusu said:

Worth pointing out that with regards to 1 (2 Hollow soldiers) both soldiers still get to attack. Enemies activate in order, not simultaneously, even when they share a threat level (this just means the players decide which order they activate in). So Hollow 1 would move in, attack. Then Hollow 2 would move in, pushing out Hollow 1, and attack.

Worth making a note of in case people think that both soldiers move on and they can push one out before it gets to attack. That said there's plenty of ways to use the model limit advantageously.

Like if you're alone on a node and three  move in to attack, the third can push your model out :P

 

#knightstrats

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I have another situation regarding node limit.

There are 3 nodes A, B and C. On A, there are 3 player models, on B, there are 3 Hollow soldiers, on C, there are 2 Hollow soldiers. Enemy activates and one Hollow soldier moves from node C to node A to attack. He pushes one player model to node B. But it now exceeds model limit, so one Hollow soldier model is pushed out of there. It is pushed to node A. But it now exceeds node model limit and one model must be pushed out. So the first Hollow soldier, that started all of this and is supposed to attack is pushed out to node C. Now all node limits are solved and Hollow soldier should attack, but he can't because there is nothing to attack on node C.

Rules state, that you can't push out model that just moved to the node, but does it mean it's model, that moves in during it's activation, or model, that was just moved from one node to another?

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