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So I've been playing a bit with Granite lately, and I have to agree with previous posts that she's a hard nut to crack, namely due to her incredibly slow movement. However, I find with the right team build (namely hammer/v.harmony or just honour), you can turn granite into a surprising powerhouse.

The following abilities are essential, depending on your team build. My preference is with hammer/v.harmony, but if you want more of a influence-friendly build, use Honour as her quick time will allow you to get those extra inches he desperately needs. When using hammer you have to sacrifice momentum to use Hammer's heroic play, allowing granite to be able to use his Punishing March ability, providing an extra 2". Combine that with V.Harmony's Marked target and granite gains an impressive 4" movement, allowing her to now put on some serious pressure (10" threat). I tend to use this at the right moment rather than all the time and ensure that granite is always centered within the action, so that if necessary I can dig her in more easily.

She's absolutely useless against some teams, as she's too easily locked down or easily avoided - namely Fish or Alchemists (their constant burning means Granite basically goes nowhere). However, I quite like using her against brewers or butchers, where her Tar Pit and KD 2 ensures she can get some work done. 

Final point, I also find Wrecker to be very useful with her as he can zip around pushing players closer to her, without any real fear of being taken out easily (even if he is, it's only 1 VP and by then Granite should have taken out a player on her own, or caused a lot of issues.

The main problem I see with Granite is she really needs a lot of support. She needs movement buffs and her short melee range really limits her choices due to the number of models with unpredictable movement. Overall, I have seen some success with her but only at the cost of other players I'd probably rather field. V.Harmony I love taking with her, but again that choice is very situational (brewers or alchemists).

I feel if granite was brought up to 4/6" movement (same as brick), her utility would be much more improved, but Brick's counter-charge ensures that he gets the spot in most games.

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The main thing is that Granite is good into match ups (like you said Brewers and Butchers) that really aren't a problem for Masons. And her bad match-ups are bad match ups for the Masons. And the meta being what it is, ie Fishermen and Alchemist being top dogs, that makes her usefulness limited.  

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Firstly the meta doesn't favour Granite as Harry the Hat is currently hip and he can easily inflict a movement debuff (burning) via molotov and remain out of her threat range. She probably does nothing in the Shark match-up and alchemist's with snared and ranged burning conditions are annoying.

Against guilds that want a takeout or 2 she is pretty cool. The just stands in the middle of the field and crowds out players. The momentous push on 1 lets you set up charge lanes for 1 inch reach models like Hammer or Honour and the easy knockdown can stop heaps of players from taking out your captain or strikers.

Her momentous 1 damage on 1 hit is unique for Mason's and she has the perfect playbook for someone who's meant to be anchoring the middle of a scrum. I've played her against Union and Mason's in a tournament last weekend and the opponents correct course of action was always to skirt around her and give me the centre of the board.

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I feel Granite need a lot of support from the team.  If she is isolated she can be easily taken down.  I played against a Tapper's Brewer who had all the buffs applied to Spiggot and Scum which took her down in one turn.  Though I experienced with her in a Honour team which only had 1" melees.

 

In a Midas Alchemist she caused a lot of headache for my opponent, in a Hammer team, as she got stuck in and tied down some of their plays.  

 

For the time being I don't really favour her, due to other players available.  I feel she sits better with Hammer, though this go with the fluff I guess.   

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I love the model and that playbook is beyond excellent...BUT she is terrible (or more specifically too specialised). A 1" melee on a model with 3/5 movement? Come on. If she had something like Locus's gravity well or 2" I could see her as counter attack dynamite. But because SFG made her special move a JOG rather than a DODGE, she gets any of a number of MOV debuffs (Snare, burning, rough ground etc) and she is rendered useless (to say nothing to enemy Rough ground like Casket or Ratchet). And that's her biggest problem - the more INF you put into Granite, the more likely you are to have your opponent neutralise her movement so it's completely wasted. And players will just go around her (or hover outside 6"). 

Had I been designing her, I would have added a Rule: 'Relentless - this model never suffers penalties to MOV'. That way she's super slow BUT SHE GETS THERE. Or add a Windle like ability - 1" dodge EVERY TIME a colleague suffers damage (yep - if you pound on a model several times Granite gonna get you - seems thematically sound as a bodyguard/enforcer person). Either would have made her a viable, slow threat in the middle.

Perhaps her biggest issue is that once taken out - that's it. She will never get back into the game with a 3" Jog. So sadly, Granite seems a wasted opportunity. 

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Completely agree on the Jog problem instead of a Dodge.

I tried her the other day into a Blackheart's Union team, and she was almost useless, because everytime she could Jog, se was on fire or snared.

I found also that every player with 2" melee nullifies her, as she is so easy to hit. The same problem that Bick has, but just his presence makes the enemy team be more carefull when moving as you can punish them easier than with Granite.

It's a pity because man, I love the miniature!

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EpicChris suggestion of Relentless (or whatever name you choose to give it) is exactly what I would like too. Super thematic and makes sure that short threat range doesn't get even shorter.

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2" would definitely be nice on the super slow protector model. It seems to me that a huge part of her Identity/utility is applying KD &/or G&S to several models momentously to enable/protect your other players. With 1" melee, poor movement and no dodges that seems incredibly unlikely.

 

That "relentless" idea sounds cool and thematic to me as well.

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5 hours ago, EpicChris said:

I love the model and that playbook is beyond excellent...BUT she is terrible (or more specifically too specialised). A 1" melee on a model with 3/5 movement? Come on. If she had something like Locus's gravity well or 2" I could see her as counter attack dynamite. But because SFG made her special move a JOG rather than a DODGE, she gets any of a number of MOV debuffs (Snare, burning, rough ground etc) and she is rendered useless (to say nothing to enemy Rough ground like Casket or Ratchet). And that's her biggest problem - the more INF you put into Granite, the more likely you are to have your opponent neutralise her movement so it's completely wasted. And players will just go around her (or hover outside 6"). 

Had I been designing her, I would have added a Rule: 'Relentless - this model never suffers penalties to MOV'. That way she's super slow BUT SHE GETS THERE. Or add a Windle like ability - 1" dodge EVERY TIME a colleague suffers damage (yep - if you pound on a model several times Granite gonna get you - seems thematically sound as a bodyguard/enforcer person). Either would have made her a viable, slow threat in the middle.

Perhaps her biggest issue is that once taken out - that's it. She will never get back into the game with a 3" Jog. So sadly, Granite seems a wasted opportunity. 

I find the same problems with her. Now Granted the ability to make slow ground for "Only" enemy models is great. But one thing we have seen with several of the new models meant to hold the middle (Locus, Veteran OX) is the ability to draw other ppl to you (whirling chains, gravity well). That might have been what the jog was for but like has already been stated it isnt proving effective in doing so. Besides some of the ideas already stated another idea might be a Taunt (If shes a Tank she might as well act like one) which would basically a more powerful form of Goad.

Taunt "You Shall Not Pass" (Cost 2 inf , 6inch) "Goad up to 2 players"

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If anyone listened to Strictly the Worst, they mentioned they played Granite with 2" melee by mistake, but she was devastating.  I feel if she had that reach I would play her more often.  After seeing the new Union  Players and Farmers Guild.  I feel Granite should be able to have that 2" melee without breaking the game.  

 

How have people been playing her?  Do you normally activate her first for your team to try offensive buffs she offers?    

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I mean, if anyone needs context of how miserable her threat range is; its on par with Strongbox. :(

She's neat, but basically just a n00b stomper.  She's only effective if your opponent commits models to her that can't kill her; which basically means they've made a bad choice.  

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1 hour ago, naiconn1981 said:

If anyone listened to Strictly the Worst, they mentioned they played Granite with 2" melee by mistake, but she was devastating.  I feel if she had that reach I would play her more often.  After seeing the new Union  Players and Farmers Guild.  I feel Granite should be able to have that 2" melee without breaking the game.  

 

How have people been playing her?  Do you normally activate her first for your team to try offensive buffs she offers?    

Depends on who im playing. If im kicking off I will usually activate her second last to try and spoil any first turn goal shenanigans(unless its shark then hes just gonna us her as a dodge generator). If im receiving i will generally try to use the ball to get her that extra 4 inch dodge if its safe to do so without risking the ball being taken away. If its alchemists and i dont see a kat missle ill usually activate her last. (no point in getting her set on fire first turn)

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Pretty much what many have said already. If she had 3 inch dodges instead, or relentless, then she'll definitely make my lineup more. In a world where Windle has 2 inch reach, up to 5 inches of free dodges, and a host of other crazy abilities, we get Granite? 

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1 hour ago, kryzak said:

Pretty much what many have said already. If she had 3 inch dodges instead, or relentless, then she'll definitely make my lineup more. In a world where Windle has 2 inch reach, up to 5 inches of free dodges, and a host of other crazy abilities, we get Granite? 

I have similar thoughts.  After seeing the recent Farmers Players and Union models, I feel they could have given a little bit more to Granite.  I feel Braced should have been a Granite play, and with the temporary Armour buff it sits into the Masons aesthetic.  If not Braced, I feel her base Def could have been 3 and still have  Determination.  

 

Her strength should been her tankiness and her weakness is her speed.  

 

 

 

  

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1 hour ago, naiconn1981 said:

I have similar thoughts.  After seeing the recent Farmers Players and Union models, I feel they could have given a little bit more to Granite.  I feel Braced should have been a Granite play, and with the temporary Armour buff it sits into the Masons aesthetic.  If not Braced, I feel her base Def could have been 3 and still have  Determination.  

 

Her strength should been her tankiness and her weakness is her speed.  

 

 

 

  

I dunno, I think she also suffers from the current meta. If it was more take-out focused she would be better. Just give her "Relentless" and perhaps let her extra Jog trigger on attack, instead of damage and I'd be satisfied.

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On 5/3/2017 at 2:59 AM, HuggyTheBear said:

I dunno, I think she also suffers from the current meta. If it was more take-out focused she would be better. Just give her "Relentless" and perhaps let her extra Jog trigger on attack, instead of damage and I'd be satisfied.

The issue is, she's not *that* hard to kill either.  In a take-out meta, 24 boxes on 2/2 (3/2 if there are gangups) is not that hard to kill.  In a world where oKat has 27 boxes on a 3/1 with TAC 8 and double push on 3 hits (yes, he's effectively a 26 HP model due to fire and on Turn 3, if nothing else happens, he's 24 boxes), and DEF 3 is definitely better against high TAC take-out based models, Granite doesn't really do "lockdown" that well against killy models either, most of who can take her out relatively easily.

3/2 natural and a 4/2 with Determination might be an interesting combo (I'm ok with the HP going down to match that) to make her super hard to kill, but slow, that would also be ok.  But she needs something... just something... 

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On 06/05/2017 at 10:20 AM, kryzak said:

The issue is, she's not *that* hard to kill either.  In a take-out meta, 24 boxes on 2/2 (3/2 if there are gangups) is not that hard to kill.  In a world where oKat has 27 boxes on a 3/1 with TAC 8 and double push on 3 hits (yes, he's effectively a 26 HP model due to fire and on Turn 3, if nothing else happens, he's 24 boxes), and DEF 3 is definitely better against high TAC take-out based models, Granite doesn't really do "lockdown" that well against killy models either, most of who can take her out relatively easily.

3/2 natural and a 4/2 with Determination might be an interesting combo (I'm ok with the HP going down to match that) to make her super hard to kill, but slow, that would also be ok.  But she needs something... just something... 

Yeah I find oKat to be absolutely ridiculous to take out, and he can put a world of hurt on your team, namely with his knock down control.

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On 5/3/2017 at 1:55 AM, kryzak said:

Pretty much what many have said already. If she had 3 inch dodges instead, or relentless, then she'll definitely make my lineup more. In a world where Windle has 2 inch reach, up to 5 inches of free dodges, and a host of other crazy abilities, we get Granite? 

Yeah but Windle is considered the worst of the Farmers box and is the first to get dropped for Tater. I wouldnt use him as a reason for Granite to get buffs. 

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10 minutes ago, HellvisPresley said:

Yeah but Windle is considered the worst of the Farmers box and is the first to get dropped for Tater. I wouldnt use him as a reason for Granite to get buffs. 

Having only played a single game using WIndle, I can say he earned me 8 VP and Bushel did jack squat.  It's not really a fair comparison though.  Granite is a control/set up piece where as Windle as a DPS monster who needs as much help as the team can give him to get results.  IMO the KD on 1 and 20 hit boxes with Sturdy make Granite one of the less appealing Masons to try to take out.  She's definitely situation, but I've never seen Granite across the table and thought "Well this will be easy."

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I have about 5 games under my farmers belts, and Windle constantly underperforms. He either goes first to get in range where everybody else will be to get the 1 inch dodge, or he goes last to get all the buffs to try and blow something up with 6 attacks. Both choices give the opponent a ton of time to counter play.

Not to derail the thread into farmers, but bushel always underperforms for me also. Grange Jackstraw and Harrow do all of the work, in that order. 

 

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2 hours ago, HellvisPresley said:

Yeah but Windle is considered the worst of the Farmers box and is the first to get dropped for Tater. I wouldnt use him as a reason for Granite to get buffs. 

That was my point, Windle is not the best model in Farmers and has much better abilities than Granite.  ;)

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13 minutes ago, kryzak said:

That was my point, Windle is not the best model in Farmers and has much better abilities than Granite.  ;)

What deficiency in the Mason's toolkit do you think that Granite is supposed to be filling better than she is?

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13 minutes ago, MechMage said:

What deficiency in the Mason's toolkit do you think that Granite is supposed to be filling better than she is?

Technically she's a good KD model and a good person to tie things up like Brick (in a different manner), but the way she's designed, she just has no place in a Mason's lineup because she's too easily countered (by conditions like fire, snare, any -MOV debuffs).  She was marketed as a "slow but fast" model because of the free jog when her buddies are in trouble, but because it's a "jog", her ability is often not usable at all. 

With the new deployment rules she may have a role that she was originally intended to do (hold the center), I haven't tried it out in this new world (and the deployment rules are not "official tournament rules" yet), so I won't comment on whether she's good or not in that world.

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20 hours ago, kryzak said:

With the new deployment rules she may have a role that she was originally intended to do (hold the center), I haven't tried it out in this new world (and the deployment rules are not "official tournament rules" yet), so I won't comment on whether she's good or not in that world.

She is. Good at securing the center and tying up players to keep them out of the play. 

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I played a game last night with her using Alternate deployment and she did work.  I was playing against Brewers but was able to lock down several models with that early knock down and Sturdy as well as making life hell every turn with tar pit and gut and string.

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