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MechMage

Seducing a Maverick

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Suppose oSiren uses Seduced on an opposing oRage and successfully rolls a 4 to hit him.  She chooses to make him pass her the ball, but during the pass, oRage is a friendly model to oSiren.  At this point, does Maverick prevent oRage from being affected by the friendly oSiren's play to make the pass?  Does Obulus's Puppet Master work differently than Lure and Seduced?

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57 minutes ago, MechMage said:

Suppose oSiren uses Seduced on an opposing oRage and successfully rolls a 4 to hit him.  She chooses to make him pass her the ball, but during the pass, oRage is a friendly model to oSiren.  At this point, does Maverick prevent oRage from being affected by the friendly oSiren's play to make the pass?  Does Obulus's Puppet Master work differently than Lure and Seduced?

It shouldn't matter - Seduced (and Lure) may only target enemy players. If Marverick suddenly stopped them working halfway through, then they should always fail, based on the model becoming friendly. 

You target an enemy model with the play, which effects them. Part of the effect is that he becomes a friendly model, but he was already effected by the play while still an enemy model, so you can fully resolve the play.

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1 hour ago, FearLord said:

It shouldn't matter - Seduced (and Lure) may only target enemy players. If Marverick suddenly stopped them working halfway through, then they should always fail, based on the model becoming friendly. 

You target an enemy model with the play, which effects them. Part of the effect is that he becomes a friendly model, but he was already effected by the play while still an enemy model, so you can fully resolve the play.

The target of a character play only needs to be valid when the play is initiated.  For example, if Obulus uses Puppet Master to jog a model more than 8" away from himself, the advance isn't aborted as soon as the model crosses that threshold because it's no longer in range and therefore no longer a valid target.

Maverick by contrast has no bearing on what plays can target oRage, only what can affect him.  For example, sBrisket can use Worthy Sacrifice to place herself in contact with oRage but Maverick prevents oRage from making the 6" dodge.

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(I don't post in this sub often so I hope I'm not breaking rule 5 and I'm certainly not trying to bump)

I assume the reasoning on this will be like so:

Rage is hit by enemy Siren's attack. Because Siren is not friendly the effects are applied wholly before Siren's attack/play is resolved. With the effects resolved the player controlling Siren would THEN take his activation of Rage with the "penalty" of a free attack or pass.

Think of it this way: if Shark gut and strings Rage and then in a subsequent activation Rage is Seduced would the gut and strings fall off? Certainly not.

I think the effects of seduced, while they are certainly beneficial to the controlling player, need to be examined as a penalty similar to the gut and string example.

I could certainly be wrong but I think for the sake of consistency with other character plays this is the way it will be ruled. Again I'm not a lawyer so take my opinion with a grain of Otter.

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37 minutes ago, Pending Forum Suspension said:

(I don't post in this sub often so I hope I'm not breaking rule 5 and I'm certainly not trying to bump)

I assume the reasoning on this will be like so:

Rage is hit by enemy Siren's attack. Because Siren is not friendly the effects are applied wholly before Siren's attack/play is resolved. With the effects resolved the player controlling Siren would THEN take his activation of Rage with the "penalty" of a free attack or pass.

Think of it this way: if Shark gut and strings Rage and then in a subsequent activation Rage is Seduced would the gut and strings fall off? Certainly not.

I think the effects of seduced, while they are certainly beneficial to the controlling player, need to be examined as a penalty similar to the gut and string example.

I could certainly be wrong but I think for the sake of consistency with other character plays this is the way it will be ruled. Again I'm not a lawyer so take my opinion with a grain of Otter.

I think in your example, PFS, oRage wouldn't be slowed Gut and String, but he might be slowed by a Union Fangtooth's Foul Odor even though he normally wouldn't be.  He can take parting blows from Union players during an advance, so why would he still act like a Union player for the purposes of Maverick?  Maverick makes no distinction between beneficial and detrimental plays and traits.  It protects oRage equally well from Molotov, Inspiring Hat, Butchery and Scything Blow.

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Is this because Maverick remembers what team Rage is really on or because by the time it would apply it's too late to negate the attack or advance?  I ask because I'm not sure how this ruling interacts with Maverick's other effects.

Does Maverick have any effect on plays like Gut and String or traits like Foul Odor during a Lure?

If oRage is Seduced to attack Gutter and she triggers Scything Blow on the counter attack, does Maverick protect Rage?

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Essentially it's because it's too late to ignore the effects of the play (switching sides is also an effect).

A Gut and String in play on Rage before he is Lured will not effect him during Lure as it is a friendly effect during the advance.

Similarly, a Seduced Gutter will harm Rage as they are enemies to each other during the Attack.

Hope that clarifies.

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