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Danny

Gameplay: The Grind

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@Danny I don't see how what you've said changes the encounter situation I've commented on. Again, I'm not complaining about the combat system - if you see my comments around the internet you actually see that I pretty much defend it - but I still don't see that you could succeed this confrontation with the sentinel in starting equipment without getting lucky with your dice rolls. Of course you can avoid the sentinels attacks all day, no problem at all, but the moment you decide to attack, you will have to block/dodge 6 damage the sentinels next attack and with that starting gear, you better have a lucky roll... You could calculate the minimum amount of damage you have to do and the minimum you have to block each turn in average to figure out how good your rolls have to be to be able to succeed, but my point is, even with the 3 tokens you have, in that confrontation you have little options to affect the overall outcome without good/decent dice rolls. All your positional options here help you to avoid damage, but as long as you avoid damage, you won't do any damage either. And without healing (HP) capabilities apart from that one time estus, a couple of bad blocking/dodging rolls will get you killed, no matter how often you move out of range...

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On 29.4.2017 at 10:58 AM, Danny said:

This run made me understand why people were complaining about needing to grind the initial encounters so much.

No, I don't understand it.

I like the idea of grinding, go out, beat some enemies, get souls, go home to the bonfire to become stronger and start again, just like in the video game, just like in a RPG.

I don't understand what else do you wanted from the game or how do you think this game should be played?

Starting, meet enemies, beat them, beat mini boss, beat the big boss and done? 15-30 minutes for a playthrough, without any depths? 

I like that you have to invest into this game and that you have to take your time for the best possible dark souls board games experience that you can get.

You can't master dark souls the videogame from the get go, you have to learn, listen, watch, die, die, die and die and but you will get better and better until you could almost play it blind because you're so into it. And I'm sure the same thing will happen with the board game. Try and try again, learn the game, learn tactics, learn understanding the game and somehow sometime it will make "click" for you.

 

This game isn't even officially out yet and not even every backer got it until today, so of course nobody mastered it already, of course nobody understood it 100% yet. Give it a few weeks and a lot of playthroughs and maybe you will begin to think differently about it.

 

Sorry for the rough English. ^^

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3 minutes ago, Retro Edge said:

No, I don't understand it.

I like the idea of grinding, go out, beat some enemies, get souls, go home to the bonfire to become stronger and start again, just like in the video game, just like in a RPG.

I don't understand what else do you wanted from the game or how do you think this game should be played?

Starting, meet enemies, beat them, beat mini boss, beat the big boss and done? 15-30 minutes for a playthrough, without any depths? 

I like that you have to invest into this game and that you have to take your time for the best possible dark souls board games experience that you can get.

You can't master dark souls the videogame from the get go, you have to learn, listen, watch, die, die, die and die and but you will get better and better until you could almost play it blind because you're so into it. And I'm sure the same thing will happen with the board game. Try and try again, learn the game, learn tactics, learn understanding the game and somehow sometime it will make "click" for you.

 

This game isn't even officially out yet and not even every backer got it until today, so of course nobody mastered it already, of course nobody understood it 100% yet. Give it a few weeks and a lot of playthroughs and maybe you will begin to think differently about it.

 

Sorry for the rough English. ^^

I think you've misunderstood what I'm saying. With bad RNG on the loot deck you can clear the starting area, get 8 souls per player and potentially get no loot that can be used, meaning you e successfully beat the area, but do not have gear prerequisites to be able to even damage a mini boss. This forces you to grind areas.

 

In the videogame, you can upgrade gear, buy titanite, level health or get str/dex/int scaling on weapons. So if you clear an area and get new gear you can still get stronger.

 

This is not the case on the boardgame, you need gear that you can level into before you can use it. If the first items you get are upgrades, or items you need 12 or more souls to level up, then you effectively get no reward. You are grinding the exact same board and enemies with the same gear again. You killed the enemies, but you are no stronger for it.

 

I got my copy on Thursday, and am currently in my 7th game right now. This is not an issue that's happening every game, but it does happen in some games, and I'm saying that its an issue that it can happen at all.

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41 minutes ago, Replect said:

@Danny I don't see how what you've said changes the encounter situation I've commented on. Again, I'm not complaining about the combat system - if you see my comments around the internet you actually see that I pretty much defend it - but I still don't see that you could succeed this confrontation with the sentinel in starting equipment without getting lucky with your dice rolls. Of course you can avoid the sentinels attacks all day, no problem at all, but the moment you decide to attack, you will have to block/dodge 6 damage the sentinels next attack and with that starting gear, you better have a lucky roll... You could calculate the minimum amount of damage you have to do and the minimum you have to block each turn in average to figure out how good your rolls have to be to be able to succeed, but my point is, even with the 3 tokens you have, in that confrontation you have little options to affect the overall outcome without good/decent dice rolls. All your positional options here help you to avoid damage, but as long as you avoid damage, you won't do any damage either. And without healing (HP) capabilities apart from that one time estus, a couple of bad blocking/dodging rolls will get you killed, no matter how often you move out of range...

Luck does certainly factor into it, however it also certainly is reasonably possible to beat. Its easier in a 4 player game, since then 4 players do damage and take a turn to be attacked, each.

 

It's a tougher fight for 2 players dramatically, but still possible.

 

However, when the night does get 1 extra shield it becomes a cakewalk, as he can then tank quite a lot of damage. 

 

I used this example because of how hard it is in a 2 player game, however its not impossible by any means, but it does kinda highlight the importance of getting some new loot early

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44 minutes ago, Danny said:

Luck does certainly factor into it, however it also certainly is reasonably possible to beat. Its easier in a 4 player game, since then 4 players do damage and take a turn to be attacked, each.

 

It's a tougher fight for 2 players dramatically, but still possible.

 

However, when the night does get 1 extra shield it becomes a cakewalk, as he can then tank quite a lot of damage. 

Since I refer to the 2 player group constellation with starting gear, you only have 2 characters to distribute the incoming damage to and the Knight wouldn't have any extra dice (apart from that heroic one timer). As said, I specifically was commenting on that scenario @DC mentioned! :)

Then it's certainly a tough fight and it is possible, but mainly because of lucky rolls then, since as said your strategic options are very limited then...

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44 minutes ago, Danny said:

I think you've misunderstood what I'm saying. With bad RNG on the loot deck you can clear the starting area, get 8 souls per player and potentially get no loot that can be used, meaning you e successfully beat the area, but do not have gear prerequisites to be able to even damage a mini boss. This forces you to grind areas.

 

In the videogame, you can upgrade gear, buy titanite, level health or get str/dex/int scaling on weapons. So if you clear an area and get new gear you can still get stronger.

 

This is not the case on the boardgame, you need gear that you can level into before you can use it. If the first items you get are upgrades, or items you need 12 or more souls to level up, then you effectively get no reward. You are grinding the exact same board and enemies with the same gear again. You killed the enemies, but you are no stronger for it.

 

I got my copy on Thursday, and am currently in my 7th game right now. This is not an issue that's happening every game, but it does happen in some games, and I'm saying that its an issue that it can happen at all.

Ah got it.

Yes, you're absolutely right about that.

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I think my first house rule will be sparks are only spent if you are brought back to life, the spark will represent the new spark of life. Just resting at a bonfire wont affect the spark count. This will help me grind more lol and get some awesome looties! Especially for campaign mode :) Its also something you could do in the game, apart from DS 2, where they put the 12 rest rule in. Maybe i could change it so that all Level 1 encounters become level 2 if resting more than say 5 times?

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I was thinking of the shop rule which i am really fond of for solo play... but I was also going to have a 6 sides dice and if i roll a 6 I get 1 free from the top of the treasure deck.. this is to just simulate getting random treasure from enemies.

 

It won't flood me with loot as it's a low chance :)

 

This was just for solo play at least to see how it goes. 

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2 hours ago, Areoss said:

I was thinking of the shop rule which i am really fond of for solo play... but I was also going to have a 6 sides dice and if i roll a 6 I get 1 free from the top of the treasure deck.. this is to just simulate getting random treasure from enemies.

 

It won't flood me with loot as it's a low chance :)

 

This was just for solo play at least to see how it goes. 

I like the idea of a shop! You could also make a print out of the old hag and stick her at the bonfire, or in another room, just before a boss maybe?

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Hi all, just thought I'd share my first experience(s)  with the game.

Saturday just gone a friend and I played through a mini boss (Gargoyle) to get to grips with the game. Probably the easiest mini boss, I can see why they would suggest fighting him twice in the DS1 inspired campaign. We died a few times but through a little ambivalent luck we got through. I was a knight, he an assassin.

We chose the same characters the next day and decided to take on the DS3 campaign (Winged Knight/Outrider/Dancer). It was long ( about 10-11 hours, although I expect that to about half in time) but great fun.

Both of us are veterans of the video game series and knowing (and enjoying) how they work decided to grind the level 1 encounters a bit for loot/stats. We got very lucky in that a lot (if not all) of the tiles leading upto the first mini boss had treasure chests. At that low level I think we were a bit too blasé with one room and got killed on our third farming loop to a level one. It woke us up a bit but we both appreciated that, much like the video game, you cannot take anything for granted. The drops weren't kind in terms of stat requirements early but that was negated by the souls acquired by the grinding. The first level 2 room immediately before the Winged Knight was a lone Sentinel, whom we barely defeated with the aid of an estus. Deciding to rest because we knew estus would be needed on the boss we fought 2 level ones again and dashed through the sentinel as he spawned on the other side of the room, and thus out of range. We promptly died to the Winged Knight.

From then on it was good going, apart from a level 3 with 2 sentinals that spawned in the centre of the room prior to the Outrider that handed us our asses on a platter a few times. By good going, I mean we squeaked through each challenging encounter we faced (both Outrider and Dancer were beaten with both estus used and a sliver of health remaining, and all the level 3's required a reroll or heroic action apart from when we faced 6 silver knights and I, as a knight, was rolling 3 blue defence).

Overall, the game plays brilliantly and I think they have captured everything I love about Dark Soul's mechanics in fun and challenging way. (From knowing when to back off or press the advantage to the dash through encounters). Also, time and your sanity willing with ability to buy sparks the game can go on indefinitely in campaign mode, much like the game. I think this will be my preferred option of play going forward, especially for groups.

The only downside I can find is the RNG loot that has been mentioned before and the difficulty of the mini bosses. Now, in theory, the Winged and Outrider Knights are giving equal pegging in terms of difficulty (by this I mean that their is nothing to indicate a difference between them in the rules or on their cards, although the Outrider is definitely a little harder). My point is that without tiered mini bosses that first encounter is a bit of a doozy and thus requires a bit of grinding.

I wouldn't mind that if, for campaign purposes, maybe mini bosses had different levels you could choose that reflect the point in the campaign you play them. For example, take 5 off their health and only have them have a behaviour deck of 3 not 4. This may make the difficulty more of a curve, and along with tiering of weapons, could speed things up. However, conversely, it may ruin what made the campaign a campaign.

*Edit* Just seen that each invader has their own behaviour deck, much like what I was proposing for the mini-mini-boss, think these might make an excellent ending for the first set of tiles in a campaign when they are out.

These are nitpicks though, it is everything I hoped for.

 

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