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MechMage

Odd Man Out

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With the prospect of no Union support, most farmers coaches will be created their 9 man roster from a list of 10 players.  The trouble is, none of them stand out as being overly situational or unhelpful.  Who do you plan on leaving out of your player pools?

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I feel like, given the fluff of Grace and Benediction in the books, we'll have access to them. Dunno that I'd use them though. So far Peck is my first pick to kick out, but I'm not sure.

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I don't think Farmers will get Grace and Benny.  I got the distinct impression that the church was backing the farmers in secret, possibly with a different sect than is backing the Union.

As an Alchemist player, I've come to appreciate how powerful the humble Chemical Resistance play can be.  I'm pretty thrilled to get it on a mascot.  At the same time, it seems like Thresher is hungry enough that he'll want the influence.

Windle seems like he needs the most support from his team, so he seems like an easy drop but every time I think about it I think of his 6 Tooled Up Honest Labor attacks and my mouth salivates.

Ultimately, I'm impressed enough with Buckwheat that I'll probably drop Peck.  Millstone can Take One for the Team which is nearly as good in a lot of situations and Buckwheat's free Hoozat!? on 1 is too good to pass up.

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Yeah, you're pretty much mirroring my thoughts on Windle and Buckwheat. I thought about dropping Bushel, but I hate the idea of not running a striker, especially one with an effectively 6/8 kick and all of Grange's pass support/I'm Open.

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Cabbage Punt and potential snap shots (either normal after her activation is over or with I'm Open), especially in a Grange lineup, Ball's Gone and a 5+/1 ball-holder (potentially 6+/1 against a charge) - all too good to leave Bushel behind.

For me it's probably Peck who I'd not include in 9, despite the utility of Cocky (don't think his heroic will see much use).

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Yeah, Peck is the odd man out unless I bite the bullet and say bye to Windle. My only issue with Bushel is I bunched her up with Grange and friends and she couldn't do much other than play a (very effective) game of keep away from Skatha. My Bushel game will come with time though.

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2 hours ago, Ziggy said:

Yeah, Peck is the odd man out unless I bite the bullet and say bye to Windle. My only issue with Bushel is I bunched her up with Grange and friends and she couldn't do much other than play a (very effective) game of keep away from Skatha. My Bushel game will come with time though.

I think my favourite Grange line up is: Grange, Buckwheat, Tater, Bushel, Harrow, Millstone (12 base influence)

I think my favourite Thresher line up is: Thresher, Peck, Tater, Harrow, Millstone, Jack Straw (13 base influence)

I think the Mascot choice in either of those lists is a little flexible, and will likely depend on how important Cocky will be, but the logical conclusion is that Windle is the player that doesn't make the cut for me right now. 

I want to like Windle. As @MechMagesays, the perfect Windle activation is definitely exciting - a tooled up Windle with Big Breakfast attacking a model that Grange has knocked down and is applying Honest Labour to is doing a lot - rolling 9 dice per attack he'd average 5 hits vs a model who started at 4+ / 1 - this means each attack could be either 4 momentous damage, 5 non-momentous damage or a momentous snack break. So that's easily at least 20 damage and a Snack break + 6 momentum (7 if you took them out, which you probably did...) - the trouble is, how often is he going to get that perfect activation against an experienced player? It will happen sometimes, but Windle's threat range is pretty abysmal (stop slacking helps, but encourages bunching), and over extending with him is a big deal. I've had games where Tapper has been able to push him right out of my lines into a bad position - Hale and Hearty only does so much to stop your opponent getting 2+ momentum off every swing...

i want to keep testing him, because I do feel like he has a lot of potential, but if I were going to a tournament tomorrow, he'd be my dropped player - no question.

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Something makes me feel that Windle will suffer Stave's fate when Farmers will get their expansion and the full guild roster of 12. Such a pity for a great potential and charisma of the player, not to mention he probably has the best model amongst the Farmers...

But until then let's give the big guy his due playtime and share of fun. :) 

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Bushel for me, mainly because I'm not interested in playing the football game. I like to have an opportunity striker on my team, and find Buckwheat does that job better than Bushel as he has a bigger threat to the ball.

Ben

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1 hour ago, Sid said:

Something makes me feel that Windle will suffer Stave's fate when Farmers will get their expansion and the full guild roster of 12. Such a pity for a great potential and charisma of the player, not to mention he probably has the best model amongst the Farmers...

But until then let's give the big guy his due playtime and share of fun. :) 

I think you can probably make him work, it's just I question the effort required. Current thinking is that you'd want Grange (influence, support, KD protection), Tater (Fork Off protection), Peck (Influence, KD protection), Millstone (Influence, KD protection) and Harrow (tooled up, support).

Problem with that list is that it's really brawl focused - the game is going to live and die on how well your Grange activations go. There's also no real goal threat to speak of, so you might be forced to drop some of that protection to give you a viable goal run so you can aim for 3 takeouts and 1 goal (assuming at least 2 takeouts with Snack Break bonus VP)...

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28 minutes ago, FearLord said:

I think you can probably make him work, it's just I question the effort required. Current thinking is that you'd want Grange (influence, support, KD protection), Tater (Fork Off protection), Peck (Influence, KD protection), Millstone (Influence, KD protection) and Harrow (tooled up, support).

Problem with that list is that it's really brawl focused - the game is going to live and die on how well your Grange activations go. There's also no real goal threat to speak of, so you might be forced to drop some of that protection to give you a viable goal run so you can aim for 3 takeouts and 1 goal (assuming at least 2 takeouts with Snack Break bonus VP)...

If you swap Peck for Buckwheat that's my favourite team. Buckwheat gives you a decent opportunistic goal threat and ball disruptor, whilst losing Peck doesn't hurt you that much for protection for Windle. You've got a lot of 2" melee zones in the team to help protect him, and he'll want to be near Grange every turn for breakfast and honest labour support, so people are likely losing 2 dice to hit him.

If you can give him 2 INF and breakfast and tooled up, then target someone within Honest Labour range his activation can be a thing of brutal beauty.

6 hours ago, Ziggy said:

I feel like, given the fluff of Grace and Benediction in the books, we'll have access to them. Dunno that I'd use them though. So far Peck is my first pick to kick out, but I'm not sure.

That's my bet, too. A&G maybe, too.

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All 10 of the starting players feel like they have at least one matchup I want them in so far. The two competing to be dropped right now are Bushel and Windle... I basically have to decide whether Grange needs Bushel or if Buckwheat and sort-of-Tater are good enough to situationally score (cause Thresher and Jackstraw and maybe Buckwheat are Thresher's strikers), and whether or not I can win brawling matchups without Windle. I think I'm leaning towards dropping Bushel right now?

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The choice for me is down to dropping Peck or Bushel. 

So the question becomes would I ever play Peck? I think the rooster has a place with Thresher. 

Grange can get a lot of work done with Windle so likely Bushel gets cut.

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I am fascinated by everyone who wants to play Windle in a world where Stave is mostly not appreciated. Defensively they're pretty similar, but the big difference is that Windle does nothing unless he gets right into melee, whereas Stave can achieve his primary goal from much further away...

For me personally, Windle seems too easy for your opponent to control, and I rate Bushel quite highly in a Grange team...

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I like Stave but Windle I'm on the fence about. Need Farmer playtime against a beater team to figure out. For me I'm cutting either Windle, Buckwheat, or Peck. 

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32 minutes ago, FearLord said:

I am fascinated by everyone who wants to play Windle in a world where Stave is mostly not appreciated. Defensively they're pretty similar, but the big difference is that Windle does nothing unless he gets right into melee, whereas Stave can achieve his primary goal from much further away...

For me personally, Windle seems too easy for your opponent to control, and I rate Bushel quite highly in a Grange team...

Personally I'm a fan of Stave as a situational pick.  He's unpopular because he relies on single dice rolls to do his job and punishes the Brewers coach if that roll fails.  Rather than relying on binary character plays, Windle makes attacks which mitigates the randomness.  Tater's ability to protect Windless with Counter Charge certainly makes him more appealing.

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54 minutes ago, FearLord said:

I am fascinated by everyone who wants to play Windle in a world where Stave is mostly not appreciated. Defensively they're pretty similar, but the big difference is that Windle does nothing unless he gets right into melee, whereas Stave can achieve his primary goal from much further away...

If Stave had 2" melee and was in a faction where 1-3 KDs can be ignored, I think he'd be a lot more comfortable being in melee. Not that I disagree about Windle be controlled and killed, he's a big liability against a lot of teams, but his team environment is a lot better for using a big guy like him than the Brewers IMO. 

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Agree with @Slothrop that Farmers will probably be better at protecting Windle than Brewers are at protecting Stave. 

I also think that with Grange Windle becomes a dangerous beater and can generate VP more easily than Stave does.

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Windle and Stave are very different pieces IMO.

Stave is a control piece with his fantastic ranged threat and early momentous KD and >. His trouble is that with a 1" melee zone and only a > rather than a >> in a likely achievable spot on his playbook, he can very easily be sat on and controlled for easy momentum and a take out. And once he's locked in combat he's vulnerable to counter attacks and only likely to do 4-6 damage a turn (assuming he needs the KD but is under commanding aura or something), without generating momentum for the damage.

Windle is a finisher. Given that he's likely to be benefiting from set up, with a big breakfast, hitting an already KD'd player who is within Honest Labour range, or if Windle is tooled up, he can easily deal 18 damage and 6MP. With both Honest Labour and Tooled up he's getting 24 damage. Depending upon how well players are set up and positioned for him, a 6VP activation is possible, 3 or 4 likely.

In the team he's in with umpteen 2" melee zones, a countercharging model, the ability to disengage in other model's activations, other arguable better targets for takeout (Harrow), and with his own 2" melee zone and relatively achievable pushes he's much better at defending himself than Stave. As an example, lets assume someone's can wrap against them, with a dmg mod and get a 3dmg and 1dmg result with each hit, both of which are momentous, so Stave takes 4dmg per INF and Windle takes 6, It will take 6INF to kill stave, earning 13MP, and whilst it will only take 5 INF to kill Windle, you'll only earn 5MP. That's assuming you can get as many dice at both of them, but I would expect (assuming Windle in a Grange team) it to be a lot easier to get multiple crowd out bonuses vs Stave than vs Windle. Given that it'll take a captain to kill either of them in a single activation, you can use Stop Slacking to help disengage Windle between your opponents activations, and if you can activate Windle himself you can heal him back 8hp.

I think Bushel is a decent striker and wouldn't dismiss her if I was at all interested in playing for goals. But I'm not, so I am doing. :-)

Cheerio,

Ben

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I've only gotten 1 game in with Windle and 1 with Bushel, but one thing I found helped Windle a lot was actually Millstones 2" push + ending in his 4" aura.  If I saved him for late in a critical turn - usually lining up Honest Labour and Tooled up - he suddenly went from a 3-5 to effective 6-8 for a 1 influence cost on a model I usually had in a support role anyway.

to me that put Millstone in great position to protect Windle from conditions (at least somewhat), brought him to a more reasonable threat, and didn't sap his influence.

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(Having not played them yet so take this with a grain) It's between bushel and peck for me. obviously it's situational but I think farmers (even with grange) lean to the beater side, more than the footballer side. that being said, bushel would be a great pick against slower teams. I honestly think her and jackstraw potentially could do some major scoring. but again I havn't played them so idk if thats true

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With the new OP Rules Captains and Mascots have to be picked before rolling for Kick-Off. So from now on you can't choose the captain based on kicking or receiving anymore. Since the roster is increased we can take all 10 Farmers with ease, but what if is actually true that Farmers can field Benny and Grace?

Making a choice for the fielded 6 we have to look against which guild we are playing. I personally like Thresher a bit more over Grange, since he brings speed, counters unpredictable Movement and take a player out with only a tooled up from Harrow. Better suited for kicking he can get work done while receiveing, too. Millstone pushing forward increases his threat and a nice Pass'n'Move makes it possible to Score in turn 1.

So Thresher would be my choice against faster and weaker Teams. Against Teams who like to create a big scrum like Brewers it's obvious that Grange would excell. So both earned their spot in the roster.
Further auto-includes are Harrow, Tater, Millstone and Buckwheat for sure.

Jackstraw is awesome with 3/3 INF and planting near the opponent for Threshers big swing! He gets into the rooster and with Thresher on the field all the time.

Remaining are Windle, Bushel and Peck.

Windle can really punch people, but he needs some work to set him up. On the other side he excells with Grange in those scurms. Not much Movement is done and he can make 6 attacks per turn, creating a huge threat whilst denying MP for the opponent if he wants to take Windle out.

I only played Bushel and Peck once yet, but Bushel really showed her strength to me. Played her against Hunters and she was positioned in cover, 4" away from Harrow and in reach for a sprint and goal kick. Harrow kept the ball within countercharge range of Tater. The team was led by Grange enabling Bushel to use I'm Open and scoring in the same activation, when necessary. This might sound like a complex setup, but it's quite easy to achieve and sustain with Farmers I think.

Last one is Peck. I think he is a nice counter to KD-Control. Brewers might not like him and maybe Masons and Engineers, too. But we can mitigate KD with Millstone and Buckwheat is too strong to ignore. So my choice of dropping a model from the rooster would be Peck, if Farmers get their hands on Union in exchange.

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42 minutes ago, Feuerkelch said:

The team was led by Grange enabling Bushel to use I'm Open and scoring in the same activation, when necessary

How does Grange matter? His aura only effects Passes, not kicking in general.

So while you get an extended kick range, I'm Open itself is still 6", and her goal threat range remains exactly the same. The only potential difference Grange does make in the described play is [+1; +0"] to the kick from the teammate to Bushel when using I'm Open

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