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Dracilic

Battle Reports- Tuning My Tournament 9

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Preface:

In the Tournament 9 discussion I talked about the list I won the regional qualifier with, which is
Fillet, Ox, Princess, Boiler, Brisket Meathook, Boar, Tenderiser, and Minx
With the core 6 being: Fillet, Princess, Boiler, oBrisket, Meathook and Minx.

I plan on making plenty of changes to the list, the most obvious being removing Ox. He was only in there because...well because. I'm going to post match reports here trying different line-ups against different teams and try and tune my 9 for the championships. I've played some different line ups since I posted in that thread, but I don't remember all the details but I did win all of them. I will start recording them from here out in this thread. Warning, I can be long winded (read my S2 Mason reports).

Match Report 1:

Alright so tonight I played against SBrisket. This is my second game against her, I won the first I believe 12-4 with the Line-up I've been using all year. Tonight I played a different line up.

Line ups:
Butchers: Fillet, Truffles, Meathook, Boiler, VBrisket, VOx, Boar, Tenderiser and Harry "The Hat"
Union: Blackheart, SBrisket, Coin, Harry "The Hat, Gutter, Decimate, Snakeskin, Minx and Avarisse and Greede. 

Pre-Game: 
I am receiving. There are 4 pieces of terrain. There is fast ground on the right, near the center line but more on his side. There is forest on his side of the pitch on the left near the deployment line. An obstruction a couple inches away from his line on the right and an obstruction on my side on the right as well.

My plot cards were (bold i chose): Knee Slider, Super Fan, Match Fixing, Composure and Good Marker. Knee Slider is great. Not super pumped about any of the cards I got, but I got most of the relevant kicking cards which means he didn't, so this is fine. Took Super Fan just because....because I guess. Not very useful but I don't think it really mattered. Got some of the worst cards.

Drafting: I will say, that going into this I suspected SBrisket because I know my opponent has been wanting to play her some more. (Bold will be his picks)

Fillet, Coin, Truffles, A&G, Meathook, Mist, Harry "The Hat", Harry "The Hat"VBrisket, Snakeskin, VOx, SBrisket. 

So going into the draft, I knew I was taking, Harry and VBrisket. Meathook and Boar were the next slot and VOx and Tenderiser the last. He didn't take much 2" melee so I felt really comfortable bringing Meathook. Tenderiser probably could delay a goal run but I felt confident in my turn one goal and my ability to race after that so I took VOx for more 2" melee for UM and to hand out KD.

Turn 1: 

He deploys in right to left, fairly spread out A&G, Mist, Coin, Brisket, Harry, Snakeskin. I deploy Meathook, Truffles, Fillet, Harry, VBrisket, VOx. He kicks with SBrisket, putting it past an obstruction. I give Meathook 2, Truffles 0, Fillet 4, Harry 3, VBriskest 4, and VOx 0. He gives A&G 4, Brisket 4 , Mist 2, Harry 1 and Snakeskin 2.

Meathook sprints to get the ball and hides behind the obstruction and kicks to Truffles who dodges back behind Fillet and Harry for free using Harry's aura. I'm very wary of SBrisket ability to score a goal here. He uses harry to throw down a molotov. Pig drops the ball 1" from Harry who leaves it on the ground to avoid a Route One threat. He gives Bag of Coffers to Brisket. Harry snaps the ball up passes to Fillet, sprints up and sets Brisket on Fire. Mist moves a crazy distance and gets on the other side of the obstruction Meathook is at. VOx moves up the field. He moves up snakeskin into the forest and puts up Clone. I notice two things here. My opponent position in a way that I would have to go into the forest and around snakeskin for my goal. My original plan was to charge Harry and end up on the other side of him and dodge out of melee and into goal range so I would have the momentum to bonus time. Going through the forest left me with no way to bonus time and missing this goal would be big. The other thing was that I had no reasonable way to stop the A&G return goal. 

I use Fillet to put Quick Foot onto VBrisket and pass to her, dodging her up. I sprint over to A&G's side of the pitch to try and be as annoying as I can for the return goal. He charges Harry with Brisket and does some dodging and forgetting Rising Anger, damages him which is great for me. He makes three momentum from this. I go for the goal, going through the forest and using Quick Time to get there and make the 4 dice shot. I don't use Knee Slider cause I'm fairly ok where she is. He kicks over to A&G and makes the goal on a 4 dice shot as well. He is up momentum and better set-up for turn two than I am. I take a risky goal kick off to the left in no man's land and the scatter puts it just over my goal line. Not good. But no one can get to easily (except VOx)

Butchers: Union: 4

Turn 2: 

He wins the roll off as we both roll 2's. He chooses to go first. I get no momentum (awesome). He loads up Brisket, gives Mist 2, Harry 3, Snakeskin 3. I give Fillet a full stack, Meathook 3, Truffles 1, VOx 1, VBrisket 2 and Harry 2. He uses Snakeskin to engage VOx and hits on him a couple time just taking dodges. I see he is setting up Brisket's legendary to get the ball. I take a parting blow with VOx and get poisoned and run to get the ball to at least make the attempt harder. He activates Brisket and hits on harry to double dodge into range to legendary. He does so and jumps to Snakeskin and moves them both to engage Ox. He takes 3 attacks and takes two  momentous dodges (using 1 to tackle the ball) and one With Aplomb , sitting at 1" of VOx. He has two influence left. He takes another attack and whiffs, missing the two hits he needs the double dodge (He is a little less than 9" away). So he can't make the goal and he just buys another attack and hits almost all of them and just takes a dodge. I was able to snapback goal without him being able to so I was ready for him to make the goal, but this made things alot easier. I use Harry to attack his Harry and hit all 7 dice. Do 3 and a KD, and use the other attack to push him into my Harry and  in range of Fillet. I heal Harry. He use Coin to bag of coffer's Harry. I use Truffles and charge Greede, netting 0 hits. Harry stands up and wails on Harry leaving him at 9 and moving Harry out of Fillet's threat range. I use Meathook tool up Fillet. I walk over to Greede and hit him getting the 1 success I need to Hook and Bleed him. Attack again and do 3 damage. He runs Mist back away from Fillet, attempting to set him up from a return goal in turn 3 if I score. Greede is at 3 and I consider just using Exsanguinate to kill him and go for Avarrise but decide to save it and just attack and kill him getting 2" of dodging putting me back into threat of Harry. I spend 2 to stand my Harry up for a crowd out. I charge his Harry. He uses Brace for Impact (the only plot card I see), defensive stance and Counter attack. I hit 4 hits down to 3 and do 3 damage. He hits 5 successes on 6 dice and does 2 damage and a double push to Fillet. Fillet uses 2 to drop Pain Circle on him, hitting and leaving him at 4 HP. I should have used my legendary here but for some reason decided to save it. He moves Avarisse into a safer position. I charge Harry hoping for a wrap of one to kill him but miss it by 1 hit leaving him at 1. I'm up 2 momentum (8 to 6) and I'm in a really good spot if I win the roll off and I do.

Butchers: Union: 4

Turn 3: 

He is going to score with Brisket but Harry is at 1 and that will put me at 8 and if he scores I just score back. I load up Fillet, Harry, and Brisket and give VOx one. He loads up Brisket, Mist (for a goal run if things go badly for me) and gives 2 to snakesking and Avarrise. I start with Harry and kill his Harry, I move Harry to engage the snake and Mist, hoping to KD the snake and push Mist out of cover, and I whiff all three attacks. He has no one left who can fight my guys so decides to go for the goal anyways. He does some dodging off of Ox (and a With Aplomb) and makes the goal. I send position it so Brisket or Fillet will get it. It lands at Fillet's feet. She Quick Foots and runs to be withing 4" of the goal and taps it in for the win.

Butchers: 12 Union: 8

After game thoughts: 

So right off the bat, I should have positioned in a way to better stop the Greede goal. I could have kept Harry back so Brisket could not have made the momentum but he probably would have been able to reach him anyways. This was my first game using VOx. His only contribution was grabbing the ball once. I will be giving him more time on the pitch for sure, but I did not utilize him much. While I'm glad I finally got to use VOx I think Tenderiser was the right call in the draft and I talked myself out of it wanting to use VOx. Harry over Minx is still agonizing me but I'll probably stick to Harry. I do miss marked target and her mobility (snared is also big. Helps a lot with the math.) This game felt a lot more difficult than the last time I played SBrisket with my usual line-up but I think that is due to me being so familiar and comfortable with those models. The goal kick after the Greede goal was a mistake too. I could have positioned it better to where I would the scatter would have to been really terrible. And where is landed made it possible for Brisket to get the goal, where if I had done it better should wouldn't have been able to dodge far enough off of Ox. 

One change I'm thinking of making is dropping Boiler (Or VOx depending on future playtests) for oBrisket. I pretty much only want to play VBrisket when I'm receiving. And not against every team, so I really want both in my list. If I do decide to only keep one, it will probably be oBrisket. 

Anyways, hope it wasn't to unbearably long. I'd love to hear any feedback.

Thanks in advance.

 

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Here's some ideas for how to make the most of vOx:

Firstly, he's a battery. With 1 or 2  INF he can threaten a pretty big area with a charge, he's got a low momentous tackle on a high TAC and a decent kick stat, too. This makes him a great low-INF late activation to do what you need when you need it reactively. He can get the ball, he can charge in and adjust someone's position or KD them, he can collect the ball and pass it to whoever needs it. I much prefer him as a battery player to tenderiser as he's much more versatile in what you can use him to react to, and gives you more options.

He's great in conjunction with Harry - they both have 2" melee zones and good access to pushes. I like to activate Harry early in the round, so he usually needs someone to push his targets towards to get extra dice on his later attacks. With a 40mm base and 2" melee zone, vOx is great for this. VOx can is also good as a late activation to help correct some positioning with a push or two in the right direction. Whirling Chains is useful as it is a momentous push, but I'd mainly be using it just to drag the target into base rather than playing for the big burst and drag in lots of people. His real talent of note here, though, is Lash Out. He's there in the ruck, people want to smack down on him to stop him being so annoying, but doing so is going to cost them a chunk of damage.

Another really nice thing to look out for is the opportunity first activation take out. I messed up Jamie P's Obulus team by taking out Memory with my first activation. Greede, Dirge, other low HP mascots are all susceptible to this, but really it could be any opposing model if you leave them on low HP at the end of he turn. As soon as he has The Owner up, he's just a massive problem for your opponent to deal with, and doing so can massively knacker up their turn. In my example game vs Jamie P he had to use 5 inf with his Obulus to sprint and puppet master just to get him out of the ruck. This took so much power out of the rest of his turn that it really helped me get the upper hand and set things up. If you work too hard to force it it's probably going to prove frustrating, but keep an eye out for when an opportunity arises because its awesome.

Cheerio,

Ben

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25 minutes ago, masterkdog said:

Coin can not bag of coffers a captain model so he gipped you on that one mate

You are 100% right. It was like 1 in the morning and I didn't even notice. I didn't even think about it as I wrote this up (like 3 am). 

Edit:

@malladin.ben 

I will be using Vet Ox more to test him out. The kick stat and tackle are contributers to why I'm testing him. 2" reach is the big thing. I mean, he was a battery that game snice he only took 2 inf over three turns (and did little to nothing :P). It's unlikely he will be dropped from my list regardless because the only model I'd bring in is OBrisket and I'm thinking of just dropping Boiler for her. Though I do like a second source of crucial artery.

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How did you feel about Truffles?  I really like the pig with its momentous KD but struggle to get the most out of it when most of my team is way up the bord.  Admitidly, I do play engineers a lot which make vindictive a lot less useful.

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7 hours ago, SonofMars said:

How did you feel about Truffles?  I really like the pig with its momentous KD but struggle to get the most out of it when most of my team is way up the bord.  Admitidly, I do play engineers a lot which make vindictive a lot less useful.

I've only got about 5 games or so with the pig. I like it. The ability to charge against most models for 1 inf is good. It threatens parting blows really well and it takes more resources to take out than its worth. 

The Pig hasn't done too much in my games but neither does Princess. I've benefited maybe one time from loved creature in countless games. I do like how the Pig can block LOS to the goal or at least be an intervening model with more ease.

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5 hours ago, Dracilic said:

I've only got about 5 games or so with the pig. I like it. The ability to charge against most models for 1 inf is good. It threatens parting blows really well and it takes more resources to take out than its worth. 

The Pig hasn't done too much in my games but neither does Princess. I've benefited maybe one time from loved creature in countless games. I do like how the Pig can block LOS to the goal or at least be an intervening model with more ease.

I've been playing the pig a lot, he's really efficient with 1 inf to get him into the fight (sprint/charge) and then he's just really annoying for my opponent. He doesn't do a whole lot in most games but add crowd bonus & threaten with the KD. I like to pair him up with Boar, they are slow so normally they are threatening anyone that comes near the goal in the first turn, otherwise just working up the field.

I did have one epic game where he got the benefit of the Ox legendary, a free charge, 3 dice added from gang-ups in which he took out Katalyst (I think? Some big guy) from 1/2 health.

I don't think he's better than Princess, just different. I only take Princess if I'm taking Boiler and it has been a long time since I took Boiler.

 

Edit: Just wanted to add that I'm playing Fillet most of the time and my comments should be taken in that context, despite the anecdote about the Ox game.

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7 hours ago, butterbaste said:

I only take Princess if I'm taking Boiler and it has been a long time since I took Boiler.

This makes me sad. #TeamBoiler4Life

But seriously, DEF 6 Fillet is a thing, and I prefer princess with Fillet anyway as she needs 0 INF a turn to be useful, and makes sic em twice the saving.

Cheerio,

Ben

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23 minutes ago, malladin.ben said:

This makes me sad. #TeamBoiler4Life

But seriously, DEF 6 Fillet is a thing, and I prefer princess with Fillet anyway as she needs 0 INF a turn to be useful, and makes sic em twice the saving.

Cheerio,

Ben

Past turn two, it's difficult to allocate and activate for swift stance. I find it largely irrelevantpast turn 2. Losing another crucial artery model feels more relevant.

Truffles doesn't need any to be useful either. Princess is also usually no where near Fillet when I play for Sic Em to be of any use to me due to my playstyle.

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The good thing about swift stance is it can be useful after fillet has activated. Boiler and Princess can also spend the last 2 activations of one turn setting up a brutal murder for the first activation of the next for 0 inf.

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On 4/29/2017 at 4:41 AM, malladin.ben said:

This makes me sad. #TeamBoiler4Life

Don't get me wrong, I love Boiler, I've just been exploring other options lately.

I also DID end up using him last weekend in a tournament in a Fillet mirror match where 1st turn swift stance gave me a big edge. Not only was that first turn great but a fully loaded Boiler & Princess ended up getting the winning takeout.

My 9 was: Fillet, Princess, Truffles, Boiler, Brisket (OG), Boar, Vet Ox, Meathook, Minx (I haven't painted Harry yet...)

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Another report for you guys. Before I start I would like to make a few notes:

I am not recording every game I play, I am just posting the ones played at what I would consider a tournament level. We have quite a number of new guys in our meta that just joined and I have been playing them recently, and wrapping up a big league so I'm not recording those here. I will record any vassal games as I cannot accurately judge a player's skill from a single game. However, all those games have been wins. Just wanted to add that for clarity's sake.

Also, I am looking for games on Vassal if anyone wants to try and schedule a game with me. I am mostly aiming to practice against Alchemists. However, practicing against any guild is welcome. Hopefully I remember this game well enough.

Game on Vassal against Masons
Lineups:
Butchers: Fillet, Truffles, Boiler, VBrisket, Meathook, VOx, Boar, Tenderiser and Harry
Masons: Hammer, Marbles, Brick, VHarmony, Mallet, Flint, Tower, Granite and Minx

Pregame:
There are 6 pieces of terrain. On the side that I chose there is a Haybale and a Haystack near my deployment one on each side. There is fast ground on the right on my side of the pitch. On his side there are two obstructions, on opposite sides. Rough ground near the middle of the pitch.

My plot cards were (bold chosen): Who Are Ya, Match Fixing, Composure, Heroic Landing, and Sic Em. Not much of what I want to see. I take Who Are Ya, really expecting a flint goal. I take match fixing in case I don't like the scatter. Composure just in case I need it.
I saw from him: Man Marking

I won the roll of and chose to receive. 

Draft (bold opponent): Truffles, Marbles, Fillet, Hammer, VBrisket , Minx, Harry, Brick, Meathook, Vharmony, VOx, and Mallet.

So going into the draft, this is a match up I am not fond of. With the S3 changes, Hammer plays very well into Fillet. She can't keep him bleeding for the top of the turn, He gets momentum to counter at top of turn allowing for a 2" push on 1 hit and she can no longer dodge back. She has to take the KD and that really hurts the math. I know I am going to take Harry and VOx for their KD's. I considered Boar in this instead of VOx because he hadn't picked Mallet yet, so he had to pick between Tower or Mallet, but I chose to go with VOx because he is more efficient at shutting down Brick and Marbles. Overall, I don't think any mistakes were made on my part during the draft.

Turn 1: 
He deploys first with Mallet on the left side, and going to the right Marbles, Brick, Vharmony, Hammer and Minx. He gives Mallet the ball. Mallet is fairly wide so i deploy Meathook so that she can get the ball and I put the pig nearby so she has a target. I position Fillet by the Pig and then Harry and VBrisket with both in his aura. VOx takes the flank. 

He gives, Mallet 4, Hammer 5, Minx 1, Brick 1, Marbles 1 and Vharmony 1. I give Meathook 2, Truffles 1, Fillet 3, Harry 2, VBrisket 4, and VetOx 1. He kicks with Mallet putting it over the line on the flank with Meathook. He takes the first scatter and I'm ok with it as well. Meathook grabs the ball and passes it to the Pig. I dodge Meathook back behind the obstruction and out of Mallet's range. He moves up Marbles, and I use the pig to pass to Fillet. She uses Harry's aura to dodge 4 for free. Staying outside of Hammer's and Mallet's ranges. He moves Brick up. I use Fillet to pass to Harry and use the free dodge to further position myself, staying out of everyone's threat range. Vharmony moves up and makes the 1 die Marked Target. Harry goes and passes to Brisket using the free dodge to move her 4" forward. He then drops a Molotov by the Fast Ground so that Hammer either has to go through the fire or the Fast Ground if he wants to make it Fillet. Mallet charges Fillet staying a 3" range and engaging the pig. She defensive stances and he gets 0 hits. He goes again and puts Singled Out on her. He goes again and does 2 momentous damage. At this point I can either go for the goal or save Fillet. The goal requires a lot of tricky positioning to get around the Counter Charge and relies on Marbles not wrapping. Also if I take the goal Hammer does have a path for a goal. I use Quick Time to move Fillet back 2". I pass to VOx and use the free dodge to move her towards the fast ground and sprint the rest of the way, leaving her touching the fast ground and within 8" of the side of the pitch. He moves Minx into the cover on his side. I use VOx to move up in Harry's Aura and pass to Brisket using the aura to position him better for next turn. He cannot reach anyone with Hammer and just moves him into the same cover as Minx. 

I am up momentum and I win the roll off. 

Butchers: Masons: 0

Turn 2:

I give Vox 3, Truffles 1, VBrisket 4, Fillet 2, Harry 2 and Meathook 1. He gives Hammer 5, Minx 2, Mallet 4, Brick 1 and VHarmony 1. I charge Brick with VOx. He counter charges with monkey and pushes me between Brick and Marbles. I resolve my charge and hit all 10 dice, doing the 4 damage and the wrap to Get Stuck in. I attack again and KD Brick and then I do 3 more damage. He uses Mallet to go in on Fillet, Charging her. I defensive. He gets two hits to do 4 damage. He then Singles Me out and does 2 more damage. VBrisket goes for the goal charging Hammer for 1. He defensives. I whiff the roll and only get 1 hit which is negated by tough hide. I use Quick Time to move out of melee and into range of the goal. I bonus time the shot and make it. He kicks it over to Hammer who gets it. He steals Minx's inf for Ball Hog and Iron Fist and passes to her to get the dodge he needs to get in range on Brick to steal his Inf to get him in range of Fillet with Punishing March. He charges Fillet and kills her and KD's Harry harry pushing him to max 2" melee. He also uses Man Marking at this point. I use Momentum to stand Harry up, Crazy and try to knock down Hammer but only get two hits so take the 2 damage due to Stoic. Move over to Mallet and land the 2" push to move him away. He uses Harmony to attack VOx and gets the marked target onto Harry. I use the pig to charge Hammer and he defensive's but I knock him down. Even with Minx's insane range he cannot reach Harry due to charge lane problems and instead just moves her way up my side of the pitch past my deployment line. I use Meathook to put bleed and hooked onto Mallet and 1 damage. 

I am up 1 momentum but I lose the roll off. 

Butchers: Masons: 2

Turn 3:

We are both at 15 Inf this turn. He gives Hammer 5, Mallet 4, VHarmony 2, Brick 2, and Minx 2. I bring Fillet back onto the pitch using the Fast ground. I leave her within it. Here she threatens Minx with the Ball or Brick (with VHarmony and Marbles in close proximity). I give Fillet 6, Meathook 3, Vet Ox 3, Brisket gets 1 and Harry gets 2. He starts the turn off with Minx and charges Fillet, I defensive since I'm sitting at 7 health and if he spikes I die. He gets two hits for the momentous 1 which snares her. He attacks two more times, leaving her at 3 hp with snare. I go with Vet Ox, buy an attack with 5 dice hit all 5, choose the momentous get stuck in. Attack again and knock him down. Attack again and do some damage. He goes with Hammer. He cannot reach Fillet even with Punishing march but no one is close enough. He pushes the pig away. He moves to engage Harry and steals Iron Fist from Mallet and kills Harry. He uses 2 MP to clear conditions from Brick. Fillet charges Brick after healing 4 HP. He counters and Defensives. I score 7 hits and Knock Him down. I hit 7 again for the momentous blood rain. I attack again to deal 4 more. And another 4, leaving him at 3. I use my dodges to get into range of Harmony. I legendary to hit Harmony, Marbles and take out Brick. I attack Harmony to do 3 damage. Leaving her at 3 with bleed. Mallet goes. He takes a parting blow from Meathook who does 1 damage hooked and bleed. He takes out Fillet and Heals Harmony 4 hp. Meathook goes and attacks Mallet. He takes the first hit but passes the next 6 damage to Harmony, leaving her at 1. He goes with Harmony next. He heals her 4 and Smelling Salts all the bleeding away. Brisket walks up to Harmony and hits her for 2. 

It is 8 momentum for me and 0 for my opponent so I win the roll off.

Butchers: Masons: 6

Turn 4:

I bring Harry onto the side with Fast Ground and leave him touching it. I bring Fillet on the other side outside of Hammer's range. I give Meathook 3, VOx 3, Harry 1, Truffles 1, Fillet 5 and VBrisket 2. He gives Hammer 5, Mallet 2, Brick 2, Minx 2, and Marbles 2. I lead off with Meathook and take Harmony out and hit Mallet for 2 and bleed and Hook him. He uses Minx to charge the pig and generate some momentum and score the goal. I kick it downfield hoping to get it to one of my players. It scatters a little over 4" from VOx. I activate Vet Ox. I push Mallet out of engagement. I sprint to get the ball and get withing 6 of the goal. I bonus time the shot and make the goal.

Butchers: 12 Masons: 10.

After Game thoughts:

My turn 1 could have definitely been better. I was aware of Marked target but figured 5 die on 1 dice was fairly safe. I could have positioned so that it wouldn't have mattered at all and I could have gotten that turn 1 goal and not given Hammer a way to score back. VOx put in a lot of work for me this game in keeping Brick, Harmony and Marbles tied up. I'm still not sold on the pig, but he did do a little that game. I think this is a rough match up. He had control of the ball and could have delayed his goal until Hammer got a take out. I think he might have been worried that the pig KD would have put the ball too far away. I think I should have put some more effort into getting the ball. Having the ball allows me to better dictate the flow of the fight as when I hit 8 VP i can just go and score. 

Any thoughts?

Thanks for reading.

 

 

 

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Thanks for the continued reports!  I also played into Hammer Masons recently in a casual tournament.  The lineups were somewhat different than yours:

Butchers:  Fillet, Truffles, Meathook, vOx, oBrisket, Minx
Masons:  Hammer, Wrecker, Flint, Mallet, Tower, Minx

Masons won the roll and chose to receive.  I kicked off with Fillet staying just outside of 10" from Hammer.  The Masons' first activation was Tower who Tooled Up Hammer, grabbed the ball, and passed to Hammer.  At this point I looked at the math more closely and realized how bad the Fillet-Hammer matchup is for Fillet.  A Tooled Up Hammer can take out Fillet or at least leave her KD and out of melee, while Fillet can't do anything about Hammer's counter-attack.  Fortunately my opponent missed the pass, so Fillet had some time to breathe.  She was able to take out Tower that round but was left KD and out of melee reach by Hammer.

Long story short, I lost 9-12 and felt like I got a bit lucky with that score.  I did take out Hammer by leaving him KD at the end of a round (thanks, Truffles!) and then finishing him off the next round, but it took a big investment from my team to do it.  I got three take-outs (Tower, Hammer, Wrecker) and a goal, and the Masons got two take-outs (Fillet, Meathook) and two goals from Flint, including a snap shot to finish the game.

I'm not sure on a good way to deal with Hammer.  Harry is certainly a good option, but I'm still trying to resist him.  vOx and Truffles can get the KD cheaply (if not controlled) but won't do much else, and I'd need to KD him 2-3 times to make it stick.  Bringing Boiler for the R1 Swift Stance would at least let Fillet threaten R1 without worrying so much about being taken out by Hammer.  And Boiler should be able to KD Hammer on a charge as well.

I tried some new players in that tournament (vOx, vBrisket, Truffles) and really the only one who impressed me was Truffles.  Sadly I'm still liking Boiler quite a bit, and I think that still makes Princess worth it.  Next up to try at some point is Boar.

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21 hours ago, kerbarian said:

Thanks for the continued reports!  I also played into Hammer Masons recently in a casual tournament.  The lineups were somewhat different than yours:

Butchers:  Fillet, Truffles, Meathook, vOx, oBrisket, Minx
Masons:  Hammer, Wrecker, Flint, Mallet, Tower, Minx

Masons won the roll and chose to receive.  I kicked off with Fillet staying just outside of 10" from Hammer.  The Masons' first activation was Tower who Tooled Up Hammer, grabbed the ball, and passed to Hammer.  At this point I looked at the math more closely and realized how bad the Fillet-Hammer matchup is for Fillet.  A Tooled Up Hammer can take out Fillet or at least leave her KD and out of melee, while Fillet can't do anything about Hammer's counter-attack.  Fortunately my opponent missed the pass, so Fillet had some time to breathe.  She was able to take out Tower that round but was left KD and out of melee reach by Hammer.

Long story short, I lost 9-12 and felt like I got a bit lucky with that score.  I did take out Hammer by leaving him KD at the end of a round (thanks, Truffles!) and then finishing him off the next round, but it took a big investment from my team to do it.  I got three take-outs (Tower, Hammer, Wrecker) and a goal, and the Masons got two take-outs (Fillet, Meathook) and two goals from Flint, including a snap shot to finish the game.

I'm not sure on a good way to deal with Hammer.  Harry is certainly a good option, but I'm still trying to resist him.  vOx and Truffles can get the KD cheaply (if not controlled) but won't do much else, and I'd need to KD him 2-3 times to make it stick.  Bringing Boiler for the R1 Swift Stance would at least let Fillet threaten R1 without worrying so much about being taken out by Hammer.  And Boiler should be able to KD Hammer on a charge as well.

I tried some new players in that tournament (vOx, vBrisket, Truffles) and really the only one who impressed me was Truffles.  Sadly I'm still liking Boiler quite a bit, and I think that still makes Princess worth it.  Next up to try at some point is Boar.

This was against @kryzak, yes? I think his line up is the correct one versus Fillet. Tower's counter is almost as effective as Hammer's on Fillet. He can put up his Heroic to make it much harder to set up Hammer for a kill. And tooled up, of course so Hammer can kill Fillet in one activation.

Even though Flint gets wrecked by Fillet, having a dedicated ball threat who can score from downtown is necessary in the match up I think. His list is super aggressive, which is what I think you want to play against Fillet. My opponents more defensive list let me dictate more of the flow of the match.

But yea, this a match up me and @kryzak have talked about a couple times between S2 and S3. In S2 I thought the match up was more even, but in S3 I think Hammer has the advatange. She lost HP, she can't leave him bleeding for the start of turn, he gets a free counter and she lost the ability to dodge back in.

I do think Harry is important for the match up. Goad is incredibly useful if you position right. You already out threat Hammer as Fillet so Molotov only helps with that. His KD is useful as well.

My plan going into this game was basically to ignore Hammer. In a vacuum, Hammer wins in a figgt against Fillet and since this was a game on vassal against someone I have never played against, I couldn't know which of us was better at positioning and such to risk certain plays. Hammer takes too many resources to kill so my goal was to go for 2-2 initially looking to kill Mallet and VHarmony. But with Mallet going deep into my lines with Hammer following, I wanted to leave them in my half while the rest of my team fought in his half so I went for Brick.

I do like Boiler, but I think I valued Swift Stance to highly for a while. I realized at some point that I was exclusively using it on turn 1 only. I think crucial artery, anatomical, and Marked Target actually bring more to the table. His KD is decent too on the charge with AP. The only reason I am considering dropping him is because I want to try both Brisket's in the list.

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I've mentioned it in here before, but I've been falling back in love with Boiler recently and discovering some new tricks and depth to his play.

Firstly, I find in S3 I am out of the old habit of wanting to activate Fillet first each turn. I find Harry has a much more robust first activation (hit out 3 times to push people about, KD them and put a bit of dmg on them, then bonus time a goad on someome critical and walk a little away I'd you can).

As soon as you break yourself of that first activation habit you can start to use her late every turn. If you factor this in with having Harry and vOx controlling the scrum you've got a situation where fillet no longer needs to be marauding deep but can dance around the edges of the scrum Harry and vOx have created for her.

In this situation, Boiler cam be useful in two different roles. Firstly,  you've got time to put out swift stance on Fillet,  which really helps her keep hold of the ball and vs the counter attacks that she can be vulnerable to. Secondly, if you're wanting Harry, vOx and meathook to be controlling the scrum you need a battery, and boiler cam be used very effectively as a battery with a late activation - use your last 2 activations just to put him and princess into base contact with a juicy target who has already activated. Then you're all set up to put 4 inf on Boiler next turn, activate him first and delete whoever they've ganged up on.

I also think princess adds a lot to the team that can be easily overlooked. First turn when receiving, Princess's extra move makes her a decent ball retriever, rather than having to waste an activation with vOx, Harry or Meathook on retrieval duties. Late on, you're not going to ever want to bother giving her inf, whereas the pig tempts you into giving it one (as David Cameron knows) each turn. 

There's also a fair amount of bluffing in positioning you can do with Boiler and Princess to throw out your opponent's activation order. If you've got someone your opponent looks like their going to activate late on an dnd you can get to them with Princess, just moving up to engage them can make them think about activating them earlier to ensure they don't just take an assisted Boiler to the face. Even if he's not got enough inf on him to do serious damage, the 3dmg per inf he's likely to do plus bleed create be a serious concern even if he's just got a couple of inf on him, especially if Fillet has yet to activate - 10 dice on someone aleady bleeding with the ability to block dodge paths is activated ready problem for just about anyone.

Personally I'm now thinking about replacing vBrisket with Boiler when I'm kicking, and potentially replacing meathook when I'm receiving.

 

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2 hours ago, malladin.ben said:

whereas the pig tempts you into giving it one (as David Cameron knows) each turn. 

He's never going to live that down. To be fair to him I'm sure many lesser beings have been tempted, he's just so high profile.

I can see a movie idea forming: The Passion of Cameron.

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8 hours ago, malladin.ben said:

I've mentioned it in here before, but I've been falling back in love with Boiler recently and discovering some new tricks and depth to his play.

Firstly, I find in S3 I am out of the old habit of wanting to activate Fillet first each turn. I find Harry has a much more robust first activation (hit out 3 times to push people about, KD them and put a bit of dmg on them, then bonus time a goad on someome critical and walk a little away I'd you can).

As soon as you break yourself of that first activation habit you can start to use her late every turn. If you factor this in with having Harry and vOx controlling the scrum you've got a situation where fillet no longer needs to be marauding deep but can dance around the edges of the scrum Harry and vOx have created for her.

In this situation, Boiler cam be useful in two different roles. Firstly,  you've got time to put out swift stance on Fillet,  which really helps her keep hold of the ball and vs the counter attacks that she can be vulnerable to. Secondly, if you're wanting Harry, vOx and meathook to be controlling the scrum you need a battery, and boiler cam be used very effectively as a battery with a late activation - use your last 2 activations just to put him and princess into base contact with a juicy target who has already activated. Then you're all set up to put 4 inf on Boiler next turn, activate him first and delete whoever they've ganged up on.

I also think princess adds a lot to the team that can be easily overlooked. First turn when receiving, Princess's extra move makes her a decent ball retriever, rather than having to waste an activation with vOx, Harry or Meathook on retrieval duties. Late on, you're not going to ever want to bother giving her inf, whereas the pig tempts you into giving it one (as David Cameron knows) each turn. 

There's also a fair amount of bluffing in positioning you can do with Boiler and Princess to throw out your opponent's activation order. If you've got someone your opponent looks like their going to activate late on an dnd you can get to them with Princess, just moving up to engage them can make them think about activating them earlier to ensure they don't just take an assisted Boiler to the face. Even if he's not got enough inf on him to do serious damage, the 3dmg per inf he's likely to do plus bleed create be a serious concern even if he's just got a couple of inf on him, especially if Fillet has yet to activate - 10 dice on someone aleady bleeding with the ability to block dodge paths is activated ready problem for just about anyone.

Personally I'm now thinking about replacing vBrisket with Boiler when I'm kicking, and potentially replacing meathook when I'm receiving.

 

In both my reports I didn't activate Fillet first a single turn. So this isn't a bad habit I have. It's a bad habit to think anyone *has* to go first. That's a good way to lose your games. You activate who will accomplish you what you need accomplished and that changes from turn to turn.

I guess I should be more clear. I think swift stance is a waste of resources in most situations. There are situations where it helps the math a lot (like in a Hammer match up) but to me those are fewer than the times that it's just a less efficient use of resources. No inefficient, just less efficient. I also think Boiler is a good player, I just tournohink he has better things on his card than swift stance. I just recently started to drop Boiler. He was in every single line up in S2 and every line up till recently in S3. I'm well aware of what he does. However, my goal here is to try new line ups for me and to tune my tournament 9 into something I feel comfortable playing into all match ups.

I will not be playing princess again for a while. This is because I have countless games with princess. I just started playing Truffles about 2ish weeks ago or so and only have about 7 games with him or so. I don't need practice with princess and if I decide to drop Boiler, I won't need her at all in all likelihood.

I don't think I would ever drop Meathook in her current state. Her toolbox is incredibly valuable. Bleed increases Fillet's damage and threat range, Hooked is amazing,  Tool Up is priceless and her heroic is situationally amazing.

I do appreciate the converstation. But I have numerous games with Boiler and have 3 months before the regional championships to play with different models and can come back to him if I think he earns his spot.

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Yes, that game was against @kryzak.  We had a rematch today at a regional qualifier with slightly different lineups:

Butchers:  Fillet, Princess, Boiler, Meathook, oBrisket, Minx

Masons:  Hammer, Wrecker, Tower, Mallet, Flint, Mist

The first round was very cagey.  I received but felt like I couldn't use the ball to dodge Fillet up without letting Mist come in and steal it.  I eventually worked around the side and got Fillet to take out Flint after 8" of teamwork dodges.  Meathook got pulled into Hammer's threat range by Mist, but she heroically held Hammer off with defensive stance, counter-attack, and bonus time on the counter-attack.  Meathook got the >> and left Hammer with a stack of unused INF.

At the top of round 2 Brisket charged Wrecker and scored, and then Mist counter-scored.  Fillet took out Wrecker and then went for the Snap Shot via Brisket, but Fillet missed her pass on 4 dice (bonus timed).  That was rough.  I think Hammer took out Boiler.

In turns 3 and 4 there was a big scrum in the middle where Hammer got one more goal but not another take-out, and I was able to finish it out with take-outs of Mist (with help from Who Are Ya?), Flint (again), and Tower.  12-10 Butchers.

Basically, I took out everyone except Hammer this time, plus the one goal.  I don't think Hammer and Fillet ever took a swing at each other.  Which seems now like a great plan, though I can't say I had it in mind that way at the time :).  Hammer has the advantage over Fillet in a direct fight, but Fillet is faster at taking out the rest of Hammer's team than Hammer is at taking out other Butchers.  Also, being able to receive the kickoff is a big deal in this matchup, and I got lucky with the first roll this game.

On Boiler, I agree that Swift Stance isn't the main reason I bring him, though it is a big reason in certain matchups.  Mostly I think of Boiler as a good generalist.  His >< and KD aren't great but can be important in a team starved for control.  Anatomical and Crucial Artery are great.  He can take a stack of INF and do good damage with it without setup.  And while the Princess combo doesn't often happen, it's brutal when it does and makes your opponent play around it somewhat.

I keep thinking of Boiler as the first guy to replace in my lists because there's nothing he does (except Swift Stance) that the rest of the team can't also do.  But he does a lot of things well, and I think I'm still pretty happy having him around.

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So two more reports using the same line-up. I'm going to keep these short, because they aren't very fresh in my memory. The one against Hunters I especially barely remember.

Both games on Vassal against different players. 

First was against Hunters:

I used the same line up I have been using and chose the same 6. I did consider Tenderiser but Greede and Ulfr both have WDTG so I decided against it.

He chose Skatha, Fahad, Jaecar, Ulfr, Seenah and A&G. This is my first game into some of the new Hunters.

I received. He kicked with Jaecar. I got the ball with Meathook and pass to Fillet, dodging Fillet and keeping her outside of Jaecar's Melee. I pass the ball around, dodging people up. I bring Harry up at some point to drop Molotov. He hits Truffles a couple times with Jaecar before dodging away. The bear also goes in on the pig using Skatha's fast ground. He misses the bear hug but does take the pig outI dodge Brisket it up with a pass. She has Quick Foot on her. She goes in and scores a goal. She had to glide and this left me at 1 momentum after the goal. I'm losing the momentum race pretty handily, so I run the lenght. His scatter puts the ball behind his goal line. A&G get it and move into some cover.

He wins the roll off. He charges Fillet, she defensives and she doesn't do a whole lot. I spend some time crowding out the bear and make it difficult for him to hit anybody. I take the bear out with Fillet. Someone on his team scores, Skatha I think. I take out Jaecar.

I start the turn and kill Greede and Avarrisse to win. 12-5 Butchers.

Sorry that's a poor report, but that's as best as I could remember it.

Next game was against Farmers who I haven't played until now.

I chose the same 6.

He chose Grange, Buckwheat, Millstone, Harrow, Tater and Bushel.

I won the roll off and chose to receive. He kicked with Tater. He failed his kick roll and the scatter put it behind his line. Meathook gets it.

I do some passing around in Harry's aura to get a little extra range but not much because Tater is threatening me pretty far up. I miss a couple passes. I can't make the goal due to not wanting to Risk Tater's charge. I'm like .5" away from being able to quick time into the aura and be in range of the goal so I just pass to generate some momentum. I move Brisket within 8 of the edge and to where she can score. At some point Grange gets pretty close to my line.

I take Grange out next turn with Fillet. I play man marking. Harry gets beat up a lot and eventually dies. Bushel comes in and tries to score a goal and rolls three 1's. Ends up behind the goal. Bushel gets beat into a little bit by VOx and Meathook. Tater comes into my lines at some point too. He gets a crowd out or two on him. 

Next turn Buckwheat is able to score a goal with his free jog and such. I kick to the left and the scatter is terrible and puts it withing 6 or 7 of Grange (but he only has 1 INF). I take out Tater and Bushel. Millstone comes into my line and gets ganged up on by Truffles, VOX, Harry, Meathook and Brisket. 

Next turn Grange scores a goal and I take out Grange and Millstone. Harrow is also ganged up on by the same crew.

I win the turn and Harrow is at 14 with 3 crowd outs. Meathook gets 2 DMG to Hook and Bleed him. She then hits all 9 dice twice to take him out for the win.

12-10 Butchers.

Again sorry about the reports, tried to hit the highlights. 

My thoughts are, so far I am liking VOx a good bit. Another 2" reach with an accessible KD is great. Truffles isn't doing a ton. He is much harder to kill than Princess though and he ties up certain players fairly well. At the very least he requires too many resources to kill generally. Still want oBrisket in my line-up so I will be testing that pretty soon. 

 

 

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On 2017-5-6 at 11:47 PM, Dracilic said:

In both my reports I didn't activate Fillet first a single turn. So this isn't a bad habit I have. It's a bad habit to think anyone *has* to go first. That's a good way to lose your games. You activate who will accomplish you what you need accomplished and that changes from turn to turn.

I guess I should be more clear. I think swift stance is a waste of resources in most situations. There are situations where it helps the math a lot (like in a Hammer match up) but to me those are fewer than the times that it's just a less efficient use of resources. No inefficient, just less efficient. I also think Boiler is a good player, I just tournohink he has better things on his card than swift stance. I just recently started to drop Boiler. He was in every single line up in S2 and every line up till recently in S3. I'm well aware of what he does. However, my goal here is to try new line ups for me and to tune my tournament 9 into something I feel comfortable playing into all match ups.

I will not be playing princess again for a while. This is because I have countless games with princess. I just started playing Truffles about 2ish weeks ago or so and only have about 7 games with him or so. I don't need practice with princess and if I decide to drop Boiler, I won't need her at all in all likelihood.

I don't think I would ever drop Meathook in her current state. Her toolbox is incredibly valuable. Bleed increases Fillet's damage and threat range, Hooked is amazing,  Tool Up is priceless and her heroic is situationally amazing.

I do appreciate the converstation. But I have numerous games with Boiler and have 3 months before the regional championships to play with different models and can come back to him if I think he earns his spot.

Sorry if you took offence. I was using "you" in the general sense as opposed to specifically aiming it at you. It's a habit I have had to fix myself of - trouble was in S2 going first with Fillet was almost always the best thing to do: you got to pick your target from who was going to cause you problems that turn and delete them, there was no chance of counter attack, and a good chance that they already had bleed on them. Going anything other than first activation with her usually just meant you allowed your opponent chances to do something about her. In S3 no one will be already bleeding, and there's a very good chance of counter attack if you go in first, so the advantage is drastically reduced.

I disagree with you about Swift Stance, though. It is situational, but in the right situation it is very "efficient". On Fillet (without KD or snared, anyway) it halves the number of hits coming in at her. That is quite often enough to prevent a tackle or key dodge and prevent a scoring activation. It's likely enough to keep her alive against a decent amount of beat-down damage, too - if it stops models from getting to 2 dmg per hit and having to do 1 instead (realistic against most TAC/playbooks) it's going to mean it takes 7 extra INF to take her out. 2 INF to stop a 4VP goal or waste 7 of your opponent's INF is very efficient IMO. 

That said, if you're happier not running Boiler and think other players work better for you, that's fine. A lot of what makes this game great is that different models fit better with different players playstyle. And experimentation with new stuff is always good - I ditched him for a but while I played with new shiny Boar, Meathook and vBrisket, I'm now putting him back in and finding he's as good as he always was, if not more relevant in the S3 meta. Keep experimenting, maybe you'll come round later ;-)

Cheerio,

Ben

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14 minutes ago, malladin.ben said:

Sorry if you took offence. I was using "you" in the general sense as opposed to specifically aiming it at you. It's a habit I have had to fix myself of - trouble was in S2 going first with Fillet was almost always the best thing to do: you got to pick your target from who was going to cause you problems that turn and delete them, there was no chance of counter attack, and a good chance that they already had bleed on them. Going anything other than first activation with her usually just meant you allowed your opponent chances to do something about her. In S3 no one will be already bleeding, and there's a very good chance of counter attack if you go in first, so the advantage is drastically reduced.

I disagree with you about Swift Stance, though. It is situational, but in the right situation it is very "efficient". On Fillet (without KD or snared, anyway) it halves the number of hits coming in at her. That is quite often enough to prevent a tackle or key dodge and prevent a scoring activation. It's likely enough to keep her alive against a decent amount of beat-down damage, too - if it stops models from getting to 2 dmg per hit and having to do 1 instead (realistic against most TAC/playbooks) it's going to mean it takes 7 extra INF to take her out. 2 INF to stop a 4VP goal or waste 7 of your opponent's INF is very efficient IMO. 

That said, if you're happier not running Boiler and think other players work better for you, that's fine. A lot of what makes this game great is that different models fit better with different players playstyle. And experimentation with new stuff is always good - I ditched him for a but while I played with new shiny Boar, Meathook and vBrisket, I'm now putting him back in and finding he's as good as he always was, if not more relevant in the S3 meta. Keep experimenting, maybe you'll come round later ;-)

Cheerio,

Ben

I'm not offended. I just feel like I'm repeating myself I guess. I'm well aware of what Boiler does. The purpose of this thread, is for me to test new line ups and give my thoughts on what I feel is working and not working. Not line ups I have played for months. I have no need to test Boiler. He hasn't changed in the last month and I have tons of games in with him already. I'm considering dropping him because most of what he does I can do with other models and I want to test double brisket. I haven't said that Boiler isn't good in this thread. 

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Played another game versus Hunters using the new OPD rules. Gonna keep it short.

My 10: Fillet, Truffles, oBrisket, vBrisket, Meathook, Boiler, VOx, Boar, Tenderiser and Harry
His 10: Skatha, Fahad, Snow, Ulfr, VHearne, Jaecar, Chaska, Seenah, Zarola and Minx

First part of the draft was simple. I chose my 2, He chose Skatha and Snow.

I won the roll off and elected to receive. 
Draft: Harry, Vhearne, Meathook, Minx, VOX, Ulfr, VBrisket, Jaecar

Playing with two obstructions and a forest and rough ground. He chose to kick off with Hearne. This actually put a good bit of pressure out as he kicked off with Hearne inside the forest. Missed the kick. Scattered straight to truffles. I let him snap it.

I have set up to let Brisket score. As I pass around and move my guys around, I keep everyone mostly out of Hearne's 12" possible threat. I also position to make it difficult to get a return goal and put a molotov where he will have to go through it. I score with Brisket. He is unable to score with Hearne but will be able to if he wins initiative. I'm up 1 momentum but he wins. He KD'd harry and snared him previous turn. He buys an attack to teleport to the other side of Harry to put him within 6 of the goal. He buys and attack for momentum and kicks and misses with 2,2, and 3. He could have made the shot if he used his move to get within 4". He was still on fire but he could have moved to tap in. The ball scatters way behind my line and basically kills the ball for this turn.

At this point it gets bad for my opponent. Hearne is surrounded by my people. He is a ball heavy team with no access to the ball. I use VOX to hit on Hearne, knocking him down, doing some damage and pushing him into Harry. He whirling chains Minx base to base and puts Ulfr and Skatha at max melee. He also clears Harry's conditions. Jaecar charges VOx and does some damage and gut&string. I counter and push him away killing his other 2 inf. Meathook goes in on Hearne and does 15 damage. He gives Ulfr AP with Snow. Harry finishes off Hearne and goes over to engage Skatha, Snow and Ulfr and KD's Ulfr. Trying to negate Pack Mentality as much as possible. At some point I had 11 momentum to his 1 and I still have Fillet on max INF left so I am bonus timing a lot and healing a good bit. He goes with Skatha and attacks Harry who pushes her back out of melee. She uses cold snap to snare Ox and Harry. I pain circle with Fillet and with Bonus Times on Skatha and Minx I hit both and Ulfr as well. I move in to attack Minx only doing 3 damage. He uses pack mentality and a counter to get away. I am 10 dice on Ulfr who is at 3/0. I put him at three and dodge to b2b with Minx and hit her again and legendary leaving Minx at 3 Skatha at 10 and Ulfr dead. Minx is all that is left to go for him. He hits on Harry some but goes the wrong direction to get out of Melee with VOx or Harry. He is only at 2 momentum to my 7 or so. He heals Minx. 

I win the turn. I use Harry to Kill Minx and to KD Skatha to shut off Pack Mentality. He uses Jaecar to go score, leaving it at 10-4. The ball lands to where I can easily score with Fillet. Killing Skatha is much less dicey. She is at 4/0 with 7 boxes and 2 crowd outs. So I kill her.

12-4 Butchers.

I continue to enjoy VOx. He improves a little bit each game. Truffles still does little, which is fine. Princess does little as well. Still enjoying Harry. I might switch back to Minx for a while so I can better compare the two. Been a while since I used her so I can't say for certain that I like Harry strictly better. I keep wanting to bring Boar in more games. I have only played him a couple times this season. There is a good chance I'll play him against Brewers or Masons if I play them soon. Depends on the draft and my opponent though.

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So, Boiler has been in my 9 (now 10) for this entire testing phase, and I always have had the intention of using him into match-ups I like him into. I found it strange I haven't felt the need to draft him. Then I realized, I have won every roll off lately and chose to receive every time and I don't really like him when receiving as much. I actually like to kick off a lot with Fillet, but given the choice I think I will most always choose to receive. 

Anyways, another game from yesterday versus Engineers on Vassal.

My 10: Same as before.
His 10: Pinvice, Ballista, Mother, Hoist, Velocity, VetVelocity, Ratchet, Compound, Salvo(?) and Harry
His blind pick is Pin Vice and Mother. Mine is obviously Fillet and Truffles.
I win the roll off and choose to receive. Draft: Meathook, RatchetVBrisket, Hoist, VOX, VVelocity, Harry, Compound

So I think I make a major mistake in the draft. VBrisket. VBrisket has quick time so she can dodge into Compound's rush keeper range which is great. However Horrific Odor is a huge problem for her in the first and even second turn. I think any time my opponent can take compound, I should opt for OBrisket. He drafted Compound last, and I drafted VBrisket early, but I knew he had him and should have went oBrisket. She can go to a 10" kick which can keep her out of Rush Keeper/Foul Odor Range. She can also pay the Horrific Odor tax if needed. If I have to take the rush keeper counter charge, then I can defensive stance and he only has a 17.82% chance to tackle the ball. The other mistake I make in the draft was thinking that the two goalie list was just gonna be a cake walk. Especially since I have always considered VVelocity to be a trash model.

There is a forest, two obstructions and I think two patches of rough ground.

He gives the ball to Mother and deploys her far to the left. He deploys Velocity and Compound near the goal. Ratchet and Hoist are centerish beside each other and PinVice is on the end. I deploy Meathook on the side with Mother, then Fillet, Truffles, Harry, Ox, and Brisket. 

He kicks the ball, gets a decent scatter. I play match fixing hoping to get it to come straight to Meathook, and he gets a better scatter. 
Turn 1:
I give Meathook 2, Fillet 6 (i know I can't score with VBrisket), Truffles 1, Harry 3, VBrisket 3. Meathook can still get the ball but can't kick it directly to Fillet. Kick it to a target spot and scatter it between her and Truffles. I let the pig pick it up. He shuffles around VVelocity. I kick with the pig to Fillet and make it, using my free dodge to get her out of Mother's threat range who has 3 INF. He uses Ratchet to tool up Hoist and to BE Fillet and Truffles, hitting both. He is being really defensive and I can already tell that his team is going to be protected by Compound. I don't want to lose Fillet's stack. He is going to BE me, so if I don't get some momentum, I'll be unable to heal my players and risk losing the roll off. The only model not being protected by Compound is Mother. I kick the ball to Harry and use my free dodge to dodge towards Mother. I charge her, only getting 3 net hits on the charge. I then take her out with my remaining attacks. I make a dumb mistake here and forget to heal Fillet with Take a Breather. I really want to heal her up. He goes with Pin Vice and Deletions Hoist and moves her up. I want to break my players up so he can't hit more than one with Hoist's Blast Earth's. I kick to Brisket with Harry and use her free dodge to dodge her away from Ox. I then move Harry away and throw out a Molotov. So I make another mistake here. I use two MP to heal Fillet. I do this because I assume that Hoist will be going for Harry or someone easier to hit so not to risk missing. I should have moved Harry a different direction and waited to heal Fillet with Ox. I get last activation because I killed Mother. He goes with Compound and puts up Horrific Odor. I sprint Brisket and Quick Time her way up the field, on the other side of the forest, ready to possibly score next turn. Hoist goes and decides to go in on Fillet and hits both BE's leaving her at 6. I go with VOx and just move him up. 

Turn 2:

I win initiative. I choose to go first. I don't have much of a plan here. His team is protected again by Compound so going first with Fillet is risky. If I go in and he rolls well, then her stack will be blown and she will die. I still give her 6 in case I find a way. I give VOX 3. Meathook 1, Harry 2, 3 to Brisket (should have given her 4 here). He put's Fly Keeper on VVelocity. He brings Mother in range where I can Quick Foot to her if I want. I start with VOx. I move him up to engage Pin Vice and manage to bait the counter charge. He KD's Ox. He puts tooled up on VVelocity and Overclocks her. So I blew the counter charge, like I wanted, but the only models I could reach were Velocity (who has UM now) and Hoist (who I won't be able to kill in 1 activation). If I go on Hoist I think VVelocity just kills me. I could kill Mother again, but again, Velocity just kills me. I decide to save her, Pain Circling Hoist and Velocity only hitting Velocity. I quick foot and run away outside of potential BE's range. She is way out of position now. Mother moves up and puts down a nest near the cover. Harry can only reach Compound and glutt mass is still up. He moves up and throws a molotov in Velocity's path so she will at least take burning. Velocity charges OX for free after putting up Aggresive Defense and does 10 damage. She then does another 6. With her last two attacks she just farms him a bit before killing him. I was impressed. Things are looking really grim for me as I have no momentum and nobody can get to anybody. I move the pig up. He uses Compound to beat on Harry. Giving me some much needed momentum.  Meathook runs into position for next turn and is within 8" for wingback I'm losing the momentum race terribly so I heal Fillet back to 10 with Meathook. He uses moves Pin Vice to beat on Harry some more with Deletion. I decided to not score here. 

Turn 3:

Meathook gets three, Fillet gets 5 , Harry gets 1, Truffles gets 1. Ox comes back on with none and Brisket gets 3. Fillet really isn't in a position to do much of anything but there wasn't much I could do with my Influence. He doesn't put up Fly Keeper this turn. Compound goes and beats on Harry with his 4 INF. He is unable to get back to the within 4" of the goal. Harry uses the momentum to heal, just to make himself annoying to kill. He buys an attack and is able to generate another point of momentum. Velocity moves within 4" of the goal. I use Meathook to wingback and kill Mother again. I heal Harry another 4. I believe Harry is at 10 health or so now? He is able to use Pin Vice I believe to kill him. The pig KD's Pin Vice even under a defensive stance. Hoist moves around. I move Fillet up and heal her back to full and throw out a pain circle and hit Hoist but miss Pin Vice. Ratchet moves down. I'm unsure whether or not I want to score here. But I go for it and make it under the TN+1 from Velocity. He kicks is around Pin Vice but it scatters away. 
 

Turn 4: I think I win initiative here. I load up Fillet, give 3 to Meathook, 3 to VOx. 2 to Brisket and 1 to Truffles. I bring Harry back on. I use Fillet to charge Ratchet, I get a momentous blood rain, hitting Pin Vice, Hoist and Compound as well. I completely whiff my next attack. Only one 3. I use my next few attacks to leave him at 5 and dodge base to base with Pin Vice. I legendary leaving Ratchet at 2.He goes with Compound and gets the ball and kicks it to Pin Vice to disengage her. At this point I make a fairly big mistake. Ox is at 10 hp and pretty close to my goal. I could go with Ox, heal him up 4. Move him in to try and beat on Pin Vice. Instead I go with Meathook and kill Ratchet and put some damage into Hoist. He goes with Pin Vice and uses her to go in on OX with Deletion and take him out and score the tap in goal (barely). I kick it, hoping to get it up far into right field to where Brisket could get it. But I get a poor scatter and it only goes an inch. Brisket moves closer to the ball.  Hoist moves to engage Fillet. Truffles tries to hit Hoist and misses. Velocity Charges the pig to get some momentum and gets 4" worth of dodges. I move Harry to engage Pin Vice. He moves Mother up.

He is up 1 momentum and this die roll probably chooses who wins it but he is in a better position. 

Turn 5:

I win initiative but I'm still in a tight spot. I give Harry 4, Fillet 6, Brisket 4 and Meathook 1. Hoist and Pin Vice are both really low but have reanimate so I don't think Fillet can kill both. He puts Fly Keeper on Velocity so that is out. My opponent makes a mistake though and only gives Pin Vice 4. Velocity also has 4. My original plan was to go with Harry, generate some momentum to heal himself since a full stacked Pin Vice could probably kill him. I was going to get the ball and try to pass it to Brisket on 2 dice, but if I missed that was probably it. And the 4" dodge wouldn't get her out of Compounds range either. But since he didn't give enough to kill Harry I go with Brisket instead. I quick time into 1" of Velocity and buy an attack. He counters. I dodge away and into the ball and the I sprint over into cover with only Velocity being able to reach me. He goes with Pin Vice. He controller's Velocity and hits Harry a couple times. He moves in Velocity and Aggresive Defense and hits him some, leaving him at three. Hoist has 4 and Compound 2. Compound can't kill Harry due to rough ground and the fact I am going to heal Harry. So only Hoist can. I kill Hoist with Fillet and move Fillet into Pin Vice to pop Reanimate and Heal Harry. He hits Truffles with Compound to generate a momentum and sprint to engage harry to get rid of some of his dice. I heal Harry 4 more. Pin Vice is at 3 with renanimate popped. I use Harry to kill her for the win.

12-10 Butchers.

I made a lot of mistakes that game starting from the very beginning. I was able to pull out a win but just barely. I misplayed a lot with Ox that game. I think Boiler would have actually been a good pick into the match even though I received. I think I could have just left both Brisket's at home. However, I didn't expect him to go double goalie versus Butchers and I didn't get last pick so I really couldn't have known that going in. I don't think I needed to score with Brisket when I did either. The scrum would (and did) eventually turn to my favor. I could have gotten to 8 then scored.

Anyways, as always, comments are appreciated

Thanks,

Dracilic
 

 

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So three more quick match reports. 

The first is against Alchemists and it was several days ago so I don't remember a ton. Just gonna give a brief summary.

I took the Fillet, Truffles, VOx, Meathook, Harry and OBrisket. 
He took Midas, Flask, Vitriol, Vkat, Harry, and Mercury

I received and scored a turn one goal. He was could not counter score as Vitriol and Midas had both went. VKat was his last activation and he went in on Harry. Between all my passes, Rising Anger, and my goal, I was able to take the initiative. Fillet killed Vkat. At some point Midas scores. I give it to VOx who is far up into my left corner. Without the ball and no Vkat he struggles to kill anyone. We both kill Harry. I take out Flask at some point. He brings on Vkat again. Meathook and Ox take him out. I kill Vitriol with Fillet for the win. 

My opponent and I agreed that taking VKat was a mistake into my team. With oKat instead he could have more easily fit Compound (I expected this which is why I went oBrisket in the draft) into his list. Butchers with 12-6

Played tonight against Farmers.

I played: Fillet, Truffles, Meathook, VOx, OBrisket and Harry
Opponent: Thresher, Buckwheat, Tater, Jackstraw, Harrow and Millstone

Gonna keep this one quick. I receive. I pass down my line. I miss three passes. I keep everyone out of Thresher's base 11. He uses Millstone to give him 2" allowing him to be able to get VOx or the Pig. I score with Brisket and Knee Slider down to the right. Kicks the ball out and Thresher gets it. He goes in with Thresher onto Brisket and fails to kill her or generate momentum. I win the roll off. I am able to get between Tater and Thresher (to avoid counter charge). Thresher is in cover, I am on 2 dice to hit him. I miss my roll. He counters and only gets 1 hit (she is at 2 hp) so he needed 2 hits (3 before armor). He takes the 1" dodge and dodges to 2" max melee. I attack Tater on 3 dice needing 2 5's to get the double dodge. I get it. Dodge back in and out of Tater's range. I attack with 3 dice this time and get it. I take a 1 dice shot at the goal and make it. My opponent concedes.

8-0 Butchers

Very dicey game, he should have went for Ox instead. Would have been a much different game.

Played another game with the same line ups. I won the roll off and chose to receive again.

Thresher kicks and is threatening my whole team with Millstone push. I play super cagey and leave everyone out his melee. I positioned Brisket poorly so she is unable to score. I win the initiative and Fillet has the ball. I score with Fillet and leave Tater at 9 hp. Fillet knee slider's so she isn't in Thresher's melee. This is a huge mistake. Thresher is threatening everyone on my team and I don't threaten him or anyone else and Fillet is way out of position. I move Harry up to try and Goad the donkey who has the ball. I want to make it where he can't score and kill a player. I miss. Thresher beats up on Harry. Donkey scores at some point. I move my guys in (which they should have been already) to at least be able to threaten something next turn. Brisket moves into attack tater at some point so I can at least generate some momentum. He win initiative and kills Ox and the pig and brisket with his team under Thresher's legendary. I leave Jackstraw on 1 hp with Fillet with a flubbed roll. I'm basically hoping that he can't kill Fillet when he wins initiative cause no one else is range of his team. If Thresher fails to kill Fillet I can possible pull it back, but he does and pulls out the win.

12-4 Farmer's.

I played far too defensive that game. I also think kicking versus Thresher would have been a better option though it's still hard because Thresher out threats Fillet. From my first impression, it's a hard match up and I think I need more practice into it. Putting Fillet out of position was a bad idea too. I think I should have just given her to Thresher so I could have moved some of my team up more safely. I'm going to play the match up some more and I'll see what I can come up with. I think the first step is to kick rather than receive. We will see.

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