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rickybobby17b

Having a hard time with takeouts

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I play Midas a lot, but I also have Smoke and have begun to play her. My team consists of Midas, Smoke, Flask, Calculus, Mercury, vKat (I don't have one Kat painted up yet), Vitriol, AnG and Compound. I can score my 2 goals reliably but the 2 takeouts or the 1 witness me don't come so easily. Who do you use to get that damage to rip down other players? I've played Harry quite a bit but I just don't like playing him as much as AnG. I don't know if Decimate is strong enough of a damage dealer to replace AnG in my list, she's just more of a momentum generator.

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Preface: I'm somewhat of a new player and I've only played about 18 games with the Alchs (out of my 20 games).

Surprisingly, Vitriol has helped me in this arena. She's not the best choice but when I need her to do damage, she's been able to do it. Charging someone who's in cover, she's been able to hit reliably well and surprisingly hard (declaring Hidden Damage on the charge). Supposedly she used to be better in s2 - I started s3 so I wouldn't know.

I would also say keep an eye out for the more squishy models with low HP. They usually have high DEF but you can get them low with conditions while you're playing a ball game. I usually bring Crucible to discourage my opponent from clearing conditions - and she works like a charm. Crucible is also not terrible at spreading conditions and doing damage either (although that's not what I primarily use her for). With Poison on and 1 dmg on her first column, that's essentially 3 dmg if your opponent doesn't clear conditions.

I'm somewhat surprised vKat is not working out for you too well. It's true that he can get negated easily but when I position him well I find that he does a lot of damage. Once you get oKat painted, KD on 2nd column and easy access to damage should help, although I've found I don't know how to use him too well yet and in my games he's kinda just sat there and hasn't been able to do much.

Smoke is also a beast when you consider her legendary. I can essentially do 12-15 (sometimes more) points of damage across the enemy team at the end of turn 1 if I activate her last and move AOEs around. Again, with Crucible on the team, opponents are usually not wanting to waste that momentum until they absolutely need it. And usually by early turn 3, you should be able to pick off a couple of their models.

Hope this somewhat helps.

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Vitriol can do damage pretty well, I guess I just need to bring the whole game together. It seems like I'm either scoring or killing and not really doing them simultaneously. I think it's more my inexperience with the guild and the game. I came from the Butchers and didn't really have a problem finding damage dealers there, so the alchs are just going to take a bit to figure out for me I suppose

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Yeah, I'm in the same boat - scoring or killing doesn't seem to happen at the same time. I try to get an early goal turn 1 and then another goal as soon as possible. Once that second goal happens, I go for a Witness Me! ... haven't been able to do it yet - at least not fast enough.

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I play Midas, Smoke, Naja, Harry, Calculus, oKat, vKat, Vitriol, Compound in my 9 (green play for Midas, going for 3-0 or 2-2, purple play for Smoke, going for 2-2/2-1, black play always).

With Midas and Vitriol, 3-0 is generally the target, with oKat and Harry clearing a path and doing damage to set up late game kills if I need them. Harry is fantastic with both captains as he gives you fire, another 2" reach, low momentous pushes, low damage results (for Alchemists), low(ish) momentous :KD: and if they hit him back you get 2MP! Plus Goad, which is situationally outstanding.

I generally take Smoke against Masons and Butchers, as they have low DEF or HP for your conditions to hurt. Play defensively, as both those teams want to come too you, so stick a load of conditions across their team so they have to spend all their MP removing (and not healing) or leave them on and get weaker for vKat, Harry or Vitriol to finish off. Blind, burning and careful positioning to counter their biggest threats (very much looking at Fillet here). Keep the conditions spread over their whole team to wear down their MP and make them wade through AoEs to get to you.

Get a T1 goal if possible and another as soon as you can after. After Smoke has got conditions on everyone and scored, she's done her job and you can not worry too hard about her dying, as her Cloud Jumper and Legendary mean she is a threat as soon as she returns. The 2nd goal is most important as it puts you in that Witness Me territory - they have to be very careful about where vKat is, and you just need to keep him safe and in range for that one turn where you can charge with the 2 INF and get the TO. I found it helped to see vKat not as a brawler like oKat or Harry, but as your coup de grâce to finish them when they get desperate for points and come too close...

 

 

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VetKat needs to hit his third column reliably to do his job, and even then don't expect it to happen in one activation.  Attacking a 4+/1 model, his 8 dice will miss the third column 36% of the time.  Because he has to work quickly, even a minor setback of two damage can prevent him from getting the take out.  Unfortunately, since most players have a defense of 4+/1 or 5/0 (even better against VetKat), the big guy needs a little help.  Fortunately, there are two conditions that lower defense.

Midas is your ideal (and only) source of snare, especially if you're receiving the ball because he can also lure VetKat up the pitch to extend his threat by 5".  If you catch multiple opponents with Magnum Opus, odds are that your opponent won't be able to clear it off all of them in time to stop VetKat.  Ideally a secondary target will take splash damage from intensify in case they do manage to save the primary witness.

The Union is the Alchemists' only reliable source of knockdowns.  Both Avarisse and Harry have easy knockdowns that will set up VetKat for success if Midas can't.  If you want to run Smoke, then Decimate works in a pinch.  Thousand Cuts gives a -2 defense debuff that can't be cleared until the end of the turn and the rest of Smoke's line up should have no trouble keeping VetKat's lunch either poisoned or burning.

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To add to Mechmage's comments, all those 2" melee zones also help vKat get what he needs - Harry, Vitriol and Naja can all add ganging up bonuses against the victim (a significant reason I take Naja - 8" threat of ganging up with no INF, plus UM to make it harder to shift the snake out of the way), Vitriol and Harry give you pushes to get the target into multiple melees/vKat's range, and Harry can add the :KD:. I think 8 is the magic number of HP you are looking for on a target - 2 3rd columns on a conditioned target will give you 8 damage, allowing a little leeway on one of your hits. You only ever want to be sending vKat into someone who is already injured, of course.

Remember, :KD: is a condition itself - perfectly possible for vKat to charge, take a :KD: then use his other 2 INF to get the 8+ damage you want.

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