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Fermorfan

Season 3 is not for Brewers

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21 hours ago, SCArmoury said:

From the above, the question is whether the preservation of guild identity is more important than changing functionality to be more or less competitive. For me, I'd much rather the Brewers play true to form--even if it means they are the underdog. Wouldn't you? Brewers tend to be slow and belligerent by nature. They rely on heroics and buffs from each other, and work best as a team. (Ahhh, somehow sounds like me old Navy days! ;))  Granted, I agree with the S3 icy sponge rule (culprit) the murder game took a back seat, maybe there are more "culturally appropriate" changes that can be made that will still preserve Brewer Identity?     

 

I think the heroic thing as part of our identity was all well and good when the game involved a lot more scrapping, now teams are more easily playing around us, generating the momentum for heroics has gotten harder so we either need more bang for our buck or easier momentum gain from damaging plays.

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25 minutes ago, Frostmane said:

The funniest part of this thread is that the Nachural and Van value are playing a lot of Brewers right now

Sorry, but I don't understand what this means.. Care to elaborate a bit? 

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So someone said that the playtesters are playing OP stuff to prove a point. I'm pointing out that two of them are playing Brewers and think they are good, which is funny because it's the opposite of what OP intended. This creates humor, as does giving them silly names.

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6 hours ago, Dozer said:

 

It really doesn't feel like they have playtesters.....they probably have like 4 or 5 playtesters....

 

They've got a ton of playtesters.  The ones I've met are extremely competent gamers that have forgotten more game systems than I'll ever play.  It just seems like Steamforged is willing to put good rules second behind fluff sometimes.  Or they way over value certain things.  The entire European meta dismissed Obulus as a problem, even some of the Eastern US meta (GBT mainly, but that's a meh podcast anyways) and it wasn't until Nach simply beat everyone senseless with Obulus that they paid attention.  He finally got beat in the finals at Steamcon but the dice were against him there as well.  Should have gone his direction pretty easily.  But for the longest time, Obulus was fine.  No worries.  Fillet, whom most of the US wasn't struggling with, Fillet was the problem.  

Steamforged has great playtesters, and I think they've done a really decent job overall, but sometimes they have these cornerstone ideas that they can't look around and see the problems.

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3 hours ago, Jedianakinsolo said:

The entire European meta dismissed Obulus as a problem, even some of the Eastern US meta and it wasn't until Nach simply beat everyone senseless with Obulus that they paid attention. 

The main problem in Season 2 was A&G and the over reliance of union in other teams.. Yes, Obulus was strong and I'm glad he got changed but it's not like the players that were abusing him wouldn't have won tournaments with any other team.. 

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2 hours ago, Redmaw said:

The main problem in Season 2 was A&G and the over reliance of union in other teams.. Yes, Obulus was strong and I'm glad he got changed but it's not like the players that were abusing him wouldn't have won tournaments with any other team.. 

I don't know that I agree with that.  Sure, they would have done very well, but when such a high percentage of them are taking Morticians, it's because Morts get them the results they want.  It's not like a Mustang racer shows up to a Ferrarri race on driver skill alone.  When Obulus brought such a toolbox to answer so many questions, it made it very difficult for equally skilled players, much less players without as much skill, to beat him.  

A&G was also an issue, but that wasn't a Brewer issue since everyone could take A&G.  It was a game issue since every list had A&G.  It was a last activation problem that only got resolved if everyone brought them.  

Brewers lost the hitting power in Tapper, and the healing power in Esters, and then Obulus going away let the real Brewer problem out of the bag in the form of Shark.  I'm not in favor of nerfing everyone to the same crap level, at all.  The truly ridiculous problems need to be handled, like Obulus, and now either Caught in the Net or Siren.  One of two, maybe both, but definitely one of the two.  At that point, weaker things probably need to be brought up, not stronger things taken down.  But Tapper shouldn't have anything as ridiculous as Caught in a Net.

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5 hours ago, Jedianakinsolo said:

They've got a ton of playtesters.  The ones I've met are extremely competent gamers that have forgotten more game systems than I'll ever play.  It just seems like Steamforged is willing to put good rules second behind fluff sometimes.  Or they way over value certain things.  The entire European meta dismissed Obulus as a problem, even some of the Eastern US meta (GBT mainly, but that's a meh podcast anyways) and it wasn't until Nach simply beat everyone senseless with Obulus that they paid attention.  He finally got beat in the finals at Steamcon but the dice were against him there as well.  Should have gone his direction pretty easily.  But for the longest time, Obulus was fine.  No worries.  Fillet, whom most of the US wasn't struggling with, Fillet was the problem.  

Steamforged has great playtesters, and I think they've done a really decent job overall, but sometimes they have these cornerstone ideas that they can't look around and see the problems.

Obulus was very strong, but he wasn't the best player in the game. He wasn't even the best player in the Morticians (Silence was).

 

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1 hour ago, Gauntlet said:

Obulus was very strong, but he wasn't the best player in the game. He wasn't even the best player in the Morticians (Silence was).

 

:huh:

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16 hours ago, Maurice said:

vSpigot shakes his head disapprovingly.

Playing vSpigot requires you to leave the best model in the guild off the field though...feels like a lateral move at best. 

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35 minutes ago, Frankanelli said:

 

Playing vSpigot requires you to leave the best model in the guild off the field though...feels like a lateral move at best. 

I played a ton of Spigot2 in Season 2.  He was actually really solid in an Esters lineup where I took Rage1, Hooper, Spigot2, Mash, Esters and Quaff.  Rage1 and Hooper murdered people with Esters and Rages buffs, Mash held the ball, or tanked, and then once or twice a game, Spigot2 would land a ball and go flying across the pitch on 0 INF to win the game.  Rage losing the ability to tool up Esters, and the prevalence of Fish and therefore 2'' melee nixed that list in Season 3.  Poised only working within 8'' of the pitch means Jac gets a free kill, and Poised on Spigot2 doesn't work against most fish anyways.  Like, Siren2, Angel and Salt basically.

 I do really like Spigot2, but losing the Football Legend, the 2/2 MOV buff and Tooled Up, that hurts, so bad. Spigot2 can be played, but the team has to be built around him, and it's looking for a 2/2 game, maybe even 3/0 since Spigot2 will be the only model that can't contribute to a fight meaningfully.  The cat's better in melee for crying out loud.

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I find it odd anyone likes vSpigot in Esters lineups. She already lacks so much punch and you take away more with him. I'm much more fond of him in a Tapper list where there is no shortage of damage. Him and Friday can play ball defense with little INF investment while the other 4 players are able to be at or near full INF after Old Jake's. I haven't received with this team yet, where I think 2-2 is a good goal, but when kicking off with it I've always went 4-1 with stoker being the one making the goal each time.

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25 minutes ago, Ik-tornado said:

I find it odd anyone likes vSpigot in Esters lineups. She already lacks so much punch and you take away more with him. I'm much more fond of him in a Tapper list where there is no shortage of damage. Him and Friday can play ball defense with little INF investment while the other 4 players are able to be at or near full INF after Old Jake's. I haven't received with this team yet, where I think 2-2 is a good goal, but when kicking off with it I've always went 4-1 with stoker being the one making the goal each time.

Rage and Hooper, and sometimes Esters herself, did plenty of killing.  I liked that Spigot could just donate 2 INF to the team every turn, Rage only ever needed 1, which meant that Esters and Hooper could be full every turn.  Rage and Hooper kill stuff, and if the enemy scored, Spigot counterscored after the Brewers murdered whoever scored last.

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9 hours ago, Jedianakinsolo said:

I don't know that I agree with that.  Sure, they would have done very well, but when such a high percentage of them are taking Morticians, it's because Morts get them the results they want.  It's not like a Mustang racer shows up to a Ferrarri race on driver skill alone. 

I was more meaning that the the people capable of playing at a higher level of play were getting good results from Obulus, but there were plenty of other players that weren't doing well with him..

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8 minutes ago, Redmaw said:

I was more meaning that the the people capable of playing at a higher level of play were getting good results from Obulus, but there were plenty of other players that weren't doing well with him..

Morts had a very high delta between good play and bad play - played well they were oppressive, played badly they were particularly weak.

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Crushed sBrisket team (against a guy that doesn't play them a ton if I am being honest) 12-4 with:

Tapper/Friday/Spigot/Stoker/Pintpot/Scum. Probably would've been better to drop stoker for Harry but I think it was a solid line up. He used oRage in his line up which was a mistake and he was punished for it. Most won't but I think against anyone but fish there is some potential with Tapper in season 3.

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10 hours ago, Pending Forum Suspension said:

Crushed sBrisket team (against a guy that doesn't play them a ton if I am being honest) 12-4 with:

Tapper/Friday/Spigot/Stoker/Pintpot/Scum. Probably would've been better to drop stoker for Harry but I think it was a solid line up. He used oRage in his line up which was a mistake and he was punished for it. Most won't but I think against anyone but fish there is some potential with Tapper in season 3.

I think I agree with you honestly.  There's some matchups I'm not excited about, but I can play them.  That last tournament we were both in, I think I could have played Tapper just fine since I managed to dodge both Fish players.  The Shark game is almost a guaranteed loss though.  The Fish player that beat you, I think him and I are dead even for our win/loss ratio, but the games I've beat him with Tapper have been because he was trying to get Salt to score turn one and his dice failed him.  Otherwise, Shark scores twice, catches most of my team, and it's just a rough game overall.  

Morticians are another rough game for Brewers, but even Brewers are decent strikers compared to Morts.  Just play the ball game and make Obulus come and get the ball in order to do anything.

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On 5/5/2017 at 0:06 PM, Ik-tornado said:

I find it odd anyone likes vSpigot in Esters lineups. She already lacks so much punch and you take away more with him. I'm much more fond of him in a Tapper list where there is no shortage of damage. Him and Friday can play ball defense with little INF investment while the other 4 players are able to be at or near full INF after Old Jake's. I haven't received with this team yet, where I think 2-2 is a good goal, but when kicking off with it I've always went 4-1 with stoker being the one making the goal each time.

Yep, Friday/vSpigs/Pick 2 +TappCat

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1 hour ago, Maurice said:

Yep, Friday/vSpigs/Pick 2 +TappCat

Glad you quoted me man. It made me remember I actually have received with this team once. 

Pick two was Stave and Stoker. Nothing happened turn one besides stave and aoes getting blasted from afar. Then they opened turn 2 failing a goal run because Friday defensive stance and Colossus only gets one shot due to 2/3. Then they continued to defend it for most of the game while I did 4-1.

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So, playing Vengeance this weekend, I did a bit shit but most of my losses came down to poor decision making on my part or loosing an important initiative roll to win the game.. Not taking anything away from my opponents but barring one game I never felt like I had no way of getting back into, or winning a game.. 

Long story short, in my opinion "Brewers" are a fun team that are more than capable of doing well if you are willing to think outside the box and get the luck of the dice on the day.. 

 

#saveAmber 

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Brewers are my first guild, played for a year now, played against every guild and must say that I pick Tapper over Esters against everything. The heal on her heroic was the main reason I liked her and right now I just don't see the point in Esters. If you're playing against a team dealing a lot of conditions just take Stoker and Hooper and you're good to go. My T10 is Tapper, Scum, Friday, Hooper, Mash, Pint Pot, oSpigot, vSpigot, Stave, Stoker, and the core of the team on the field is Tapper, Scum, Hooper, Spigot, Friday and the last one depends on the opponent. Esters just doesn't deal any dmg, she wants a lot of inf and doesn't give that much, and apart from her Legendary Turn you can get the same (or better) buffs in a Tapper team.

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I dunno Edek... I really like Tapper, but I find that if you time Esters' legendary right, it can often decide the game on the spot. Also she just brings a bit more versatility wich allows for a change of plans, a bit better than Tapper. I hardly ever need her heroic, as you say, but the rest of her package is pretty much golden in my book.

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Well, in my eyes the Tapper package is golden ;) Inf efficiency, command aura, marked target, great hitter, 2" melee. If you go Tapper and Pint Pot, for 2 turns you can be inf18 if you need, that is insane.

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