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Lena

Guild Ball Violence Levels?

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In my head I always imagined Guild Ball to be about as violent as Bloodbowl, a bit rougher than the average football game but not a complete massacre every game. Now, Guild Ball does have people actually holding weapons and I read a story summary thread on these forums a bit ago where it seems that a lot of players are actually dead already? Is the average game of Guild Ball really that violent?

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It is crazily violent - Corsair's peg leg is courtesy of the butchers guild, Ghast got bear-mauled, one of the masons girls will never walk again...

 

Usually its not the game that causes it though, it's the guild power struggle that's going on behind it. Killing or maiming a player is just a nice public way to shift guild power and support about. 

 

Kind of sucks to be a player (aside from the celebrity and glory while you do survive) really!

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It just not team vs team either; the political struggles within Guilds may even result on your own team mates stabbing you in the back, as in the cases of Blackheart, Coin, Katalyst and not too mention the Butchers Civil War...

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I wonder if blunt weapons are used then in most matches; seems hard to just not have a massacre everytime when you're using sharp arrows and crossbow bolts and swords and stuffs.

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4 hours ago, Lena said:

I wonder if blunt weapons are used then in most matches; seems hard to just not have a massacre everytime when you're using sharp arrows and crossbow bolts and swords and stuffs.

Very doubtful since most all the "violent" fluff is with sharp weapons. Like when rage lodged a hatchet in Blackhear's skull.

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I personally find it really odd how common serious injuries are in the fluff given how generous the icy sponge rules rules are on the tabletop.  Ghast might have been mauled to death by Seenah in the lore, but if you try to recreate that on the table top he'll be ready for action in the next maintenance phase.

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12 minutes ago, MechMage said:

I personally find it really odd how common serious injuries are in the fluff given how generous the icy sponge rules rules are on the tabletop.  Ghast might have been mauled to death by Seenah in the lore, but if you try to recreate that on the table top he'll be ready for action in the next maintenance phase.

The Physician's Guild really earn their supper during matches. That's probably why they haven't had a ball team of their own. It's best not to keep the Morts too gainfully employed either. :-)

   

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Just now, SCArmoury said:

The Physician's Guild really earn their supper during matches. That's probably why they haven't had a ball team of their own. It's best not to keep the Morts too gainfully employed either. :-)

   

Given the speed with which they work and their success rate, I suspect Apothecary's Guild is a euphemism for Necromancer's Guild.

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9 minutes ago, MechMage said:

I personally find it really odd how common serious injuries are in the fluff given how generous the icy sponge rules rules are on the tabletop.  Ghast might have been mauled to death by Seenah in the lore, but if you try to recreate that on the table top he'll be ready for action in the next maintenance phase.

I'm fairly sure its just the fact they didn't lock the story down to following game logic, which i appreciate. It's always a bit jarring to see game rules getting lodged into fluff in very awkward ways. Although to be fair, i also think the majority of stories in the fluff are 'exceptional' games rather than the common ones. These are the matches that are game changers, like Corsair being taken out, brisket nearly being killed, the whole katalyst incident, obulus setting up honour's demise etc.

i don't think anyone dies beyond a rare accident in a typical game, its these exceptional games that involve schemers and guild politics that are being reflected in the story

 

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12 minutes ago, SCArmoury said:

The Physician's Guild really earn their supper during matches. That's probably why they haven't had a ball team of their own. It's best not to keep the Morts too gainfully employed either. :-)

   

They're not allowed to have a team.  Since they do all the sideline work of patching players up, it would be real easy to just keep them off.  Or kill them.  Real easy

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8 hours ago, Dracilic said:

Very doubtful since most all the "violent" fluff is with sharp weapons. Like when rage lodged a hatchet in Blackhear's skull.

Yeah but how do you explain than that every game doesn't end in total massacres on both sides?

It's just breaking my suspension of disbelief a bit / making it hard to get attached to my players. In blood bowl your models at least looked like football players and generally weren't armed.

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2 hours ago, Lena said:

Yeah but how do you explain than that every game doesn't end in total massacres on both sides?

Check the fluff of the Alchemists vs Engineers game from the S2 book..

Regarding the the fluff to table top debate, I happenes in every game.. How many times have Warcasters or Chapter Masters died in unheroic ways on a tabletop which is not reprisentitive of the fluff.?

If anything your average Guild Ball player is just more resilient than the faceless mooks that play Blood Bowl.. Although I'm pretty sure Dirk comes close to death more than a few times in the novels.. 

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As people already mentioned, but condensed into one post:

It is very violent, but it is against the rules to intentionally kill someone. Accidents have been known to happen. However, in this world, the surgeons basically have magic healing powers (not officially), because they can basically treat almost any wounds imaginable.

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Given the number of people that don't see it coming, they're lucky it's not like the tale of a doctor in feudal Japan, who looked at a badly injured soldier and said "I cannot treat wounds in the back - there is no cure for cowardice"!

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5 hours ago, Lena said:

Yeah but how do you explain than that every game doesn't end in total massacres on both sides?

It's just breaking my suspension of disbelief a bit / making it hard to get attached to my players. In blood bowl your models at least looked like football players and generally weren't armed.

I explain it because it is a game and can't follow the fluff 100% and I'm very glad they don't try to.

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So in anticipation of the S3 release I recently read the S1 and S2 books as well as the Butcher Civil War shorts, and IIRC there was one story in which it was mentioned that someone's axe was blunted. On the other hand there's the Corsair foot and Rage vs. Blackheart scenario, as well as Jaecar-Ghast and Snakeskin-Brisket. My preferred way of thinking about it is that, for the most part, weapons and attacks are supposed to be blunted (not like getting hit with a gigantic blunted cleaver isn't still going to cause serious damage), and that one's not supposed to cause lasting injuries or death (if for nothing else than that the guilds have a lot of money infused into their teams). But the shadow games going on in the background might change that - someone might be sneaking in/handed a sharpened weapon or a lethal poison or what have you because of background shenanigans.

All of that, of course, is thinking about the game would work in-universe.

As I see it, the games we play don't really match up to the background in that particular sense, just as we're not (generally) representing 'actual' fictional events when X met Y on the battlefield in Warmahordes or somehow representing all of Yarrick's exploits in tabletop 40k or whatever.

Just now, Longstrider said:

So in anticipation of the S3 release I recently read the S1 and S2 books as well as the Butcher Civil War shorts, and IIRC there was one story in which it was mentioned that someone's axe was blunted. On the other hand there's the Corsair foot and Rage vs. Blackheart scenario, as well as Jaecar-Ghast and Snakeskin-Brisket. My preferred way of thinking about it is that, for the most part, weapons and attacks are supposed to be blunted (not like getting hit with a gigantic blunted cleaver isn't still going to cause serious damage), and that one's not supposed to cause lasting injuries or death (if for nothing else than that the guilds have a lot of money infused into their teams). But the shadow games going on in the background might change that - someone might be sneaking in/handed a sharpened weapon or a lethal poison or what have you because of background shenanigans.

All of that, of course, is thinking about the game would work in-universe.

As I see it, the games we play don't really match up to the background in that particular sense, just as we're not (generally) representing 'actual' fictional events when X met Y on the battlefield in Warmahordes or somehow representing all of Yarrick's exploits in tabletop 40k or whatever. As far as suspending disbelief with the physician's guild, they obviously both have teleporting AND healing magic. :P

 

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In the first Season Rulebook there was a short section called 'Of Life and Death in Guild Ball', which might be missing from the PDF sheets (I'd need to check).

In this the Physician's Guild were discussed, and their mysterious and wonderful craft - crucially, how it may be that they are able to heal players who have been injured on the field.

One of the vital things that they are capable of is 'magically assisted healing', which is never directly challenged by any of the other Guilds. It's one of the very few instances of magic in our world, and is definitely a secretive (and undefined) science, the treatments for which are as unlike the medical science of our world as Alchemy is to Chemistry.

With regards to the Game Rules, player deaths on the field are definitely frowned upon, and extremely rare instances. Any time one occurs, it is a significant event, which is not commonplace in the slightest.

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36 minutes ago, Sherwin said:

In the first Season Rulebook there was a short section called 'Of Life and Death in Guild Ball', which might be missing from the PDF sheets (I'd need to check).

It is present in PDF as well, page 19.

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On 4/22/2017 at 3:55 PM, Lena said:

I wonder if blunt weapons are used then in most matches; seems hard to just not have a massacre everytime when you're using sharp arrows and crossbow bolts and swords and stuffs.

From page 3 (PDF page 5) of the Season 1 book, on the fight between Ox and Corsair:

  • As he moved, his cleaver arced up in a fluid motion and into his opponent’s unguarded stomach. Corsair snarled as the blunted edge struck his plated armour, slid several inches to the side and leapt into the air, the impact driving him backwards two steps.

I think that yes, the weapons aren't very sharp. An actual butcher's cleaver would have taken off Corsair's ankle in one or two hits, not the many that are implied in the story.

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17 hours ago, Sherwin said:

One of the vital things that they are capable of is 'magically assisted healing', which is never directly challenged by any of the other Guilds. It's one of the very few instances of magic in our world, and is definitely a secretive (and undefined) science, the treatments for which are as unlike the medical science of our world as Alchemy is to Chemistry.

With regards to the Game Rules, player deaths on the field are definitely frowned upon, and extremely rare instances. Any time one occurs, it is a significant event, which is not commonplace in the slightest.

Nice to have some confirmation from the horse's mouth, so to speak. Both in regards to how closely guarded and distinctive the physician's guild's practices are, as well as to the point that most of the tales we read in the Season books are the really significant happenings. After all, there's not MUCH reason for the fiction to really zoom in on a largely inconsequential exhibition friendly where nobody's pulling strings behind the scenes, other than to get a sense of how an average GB match plays out in-universe.

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