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Derelict

Facing the engineers

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This is a popular topic these days, and I'm running light on ideas. Plus I dont want to bump an older thread so...We have a force in our meta who runs Ballista, Mother, Hoist, Colossus, Ratchet, and Harry, though lately he played Velocity and it worked well for him. I usually play into him with Midas, Naja, Vitriol, oKatalyst, Harry, and Compound. in S3 he's basically the one I have no answer for. If he kicks I typically score quickly and he fires back, scoring at the top of T2. He plays a line across the middle of the field, with Colossus on one end and Ballista on the other. This has the great effect of having Ballista's TO threat be an L, across the field to Colossus or in front of him. Ratchet tools up Ballista almost 100% of the time except when a viable target doesn't present in which case he uses blast earth to funnel toward Colossus, Harry, or Ballista. If I kick he will sit on the ball scoring at the end of the turn which only makes sense for any of us since it exposes your striker to be a MO farm. 

The real problem is Hoist. Between replicating Burrow to make a dodge, Tough Hide, Reanimate, and Sturdy, he literally parks him 6" from my goal in the middle of the pitch with the understanding that he is not worth the inf cost to attack him. Final score is almost inevitably 12-8 or 12-6 with a first goal by Hoist, 2 TOs from either Ballista or Colossus/Harry team up, finished by Ballista's Legendary. I can almost always score, but he only occasionally exposes Ratchet or Harry and conditions being present for vKat shenanigans are iffy so swapping there seems like a losing proposition. Thoughts? 

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Think I'm in the same meta as you, so I'm fairly sure I know who the player you're talking about is.  I haven't played kicking to him in a while but I've gotten a pretty good amount of playtime lately with him.  My team has been mostly the same as yours, so similar experience.

He commonly goes for the Mother - Hoist fly up the field package (I seriously hate that combo) in my experience.  Depending on terrain, I tend to place Compound in such a place that he can protect the likely landing spots for Hoist and aim for the pushes.  I don't bother with the knockdown even if I hit - just shove him out of the way.

I use Harry's Molotov actively to interfere with angles - putting it on the angle you think he'll want off the Mother jump, for example, or forcing the Mother jump if you want it.  Harry being able to trigger the Sturdy from 2" helps too.  That way it's an active threat.  Bonus timing Goad can annoy him, too.  Ballista is a AMAZING target to Goad if you can land it, especially if Harry can push someone who has activated in the way.

Probably most importantly, I attack and don't let him set up any more than I can help.  Midas bounces around like an idiot pretty well against that team, and Vit threatens well.  I rearrange and open angles for them so he never gets to set up ideally.  External Combustion is godly for that, as well as pissing him off with forcing condition clearing to move normally.  I actually attack a lot against that team - I probably get too reckless with Midas forcing him to spend time and resources against him.  He has to put multiple pieces on Midas alone to stop him because of Unpredictable, and the Counter, so that's less he's using to score and more time for me to set up the board how I'd like.

im also becoming convinced Smoke can really piss off Engi's.  Condition damage stacks up and helps board control, and Hoist gets scared if you happen to clear the Reanimate quickly.

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I run a very similar set up into Engineers with now the exception of tinkering with Cruicible instead of Compound. The Engineers have enough good kick stats and can move fast enough if they need that Compound has been feeling more obsolete.

The condition game is a big thing to play against a Ballista led team because they typically generate less momentum per influence. Cruicible is new but that passive "Hey use 3 momentum to clear this crap" sets up VKat for easy take outs. Doing this will most likely force Ballista to Deadbolt him. Though this will free up Midas/Vit for goal scoring.

I will soon be switching to try Smoke out more. Ive been using Midas exclusively since Season 1 and really need to give her more of a try now. Watched a game recently where the effects damage plus character plays was far out putting the Engineer player and ended the game by round 3.

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My best friend plays engineers and when he leads with Ballista (which is rarely), playing a condition game against him makes it much more difficult for him to win (he's a much better player and has played more than twice the number of games I've played). A good Smoke legendary will do a lot of damage across his team and with Crucible nearby, he is very hesitant, close to never really, to use momentum to clear conditions. This sets up vKat, and in my case Venin too, fairly well.

A Pin Vice engineer team with nearly the whole team having reanimate is ridiculous to play against though and my buddy has been playing this lineup against me. It's frustrating. I can't win against them.

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