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DeathlyDrew

Morts extinct in Vegas

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Super disappointing but it makes sense. People will be sick of playing morts, and now that obulus doesn't just win games, it's natural for people to jump off the bandwagon.

 

That said, I'll keep representing them this year. 

 

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i played them at the kick off tournament at captaincon, they just cant do it anymore. maybe later with brainpan and memory but for now, i will have to bench them

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35 minutes ago, sirez said:

i played them at the kick off tournament at captaincon, they just cant do it anymore. maybe later with brainpan and memory but for now, i will have to bench them

What is the issue? I play them and I just don't see what the main issue is that makes them "unusable" in tourneys 

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On ‎06‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 5:31 AM, sirez said:

i played them at the kick off tournament at captaincon, they just cant do it anymore. maybe later with brainpan and memory but for now, i will have to bench them

You mean that with 5/7 instead of 5/8, TAC 5 instead of 6 and no INF back after Puppet master, "they just can't do it anymore" ?

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I don't agree that they are in a hard place. Cosset , Graves and bonesaw buffs are huge. 

Plus the passive changes to ghast make him even better. 

I've found obulus tends to jump between 1-3 inf a turn or the full 7, being fairly effective at both points. 

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Cosset is certainly better, as is Graves (although we lost a lot of throughput by the Rage/Union changes). Bonesaw still feels like a gimmick and I rarely field him still.

For me, Ghast is worse off in S3 due to the permanent Home Crowd and shift towards a more footballing game and away from takeouts. I feel I'm getting a lot less from him now.  I'd be interested to hear why you think he's improved. Maybe I need to start using him differently.

I agree Obulus acts as a battery in most turns before ramping up.

Morticians also play a very slow game that doesn't lend itself to competitive play anymore.

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1 hour ago, LeadDiceandBeers said:

Cosset is certainly better, as is Graves (although we lost a lot of throughput by the Rage/Union changes). Bonesaw still feels like a gimmick and I rarely field him still.

For me, Ghast is worse off in S3 due to the permanent Home Crowd and shift towards a more footballing game and away from takeouts. I feel I'm getting a lot less from him now.  I'd be interested to hear why you think he's improved. Maybe I need to start using him differently.

I agree Obulus acts as a battery in most turns before ramping up.

Morticians also play a very slow game that doesn't lend itself to competitive play anymore.

As I've said before, I think Morts need to win differently, and I think they really dictate how fast the game goes. I played against Union and won in 3 turns. A Casket time take out turn one, a goal from Scalpel turn two, and a goal from Scalpel turn three, winning 12-4.

I've played other games where is was slow going (typically in an Obulus list). Screwing up the strategy, PMing and then kicking the ball away, finding the opening that you want and then going for it. Making the other team over commit to a goal and then ending them with a tooled up Cosset, or Graves.

Gone are the days of the Obs beat down and Mist scoring like there is nothing in front of him. Now you really need to play the trick side of Morts. Sure we may not go undefeated anymore, but I feel like Morts are very much still involved. 

As far as Ghast goes, I think we are seeing that he is good for some games not for others (or at least I see that) Casket to me has become super viable to play a lot, and Ghast still has his strengths. Being 2 in reach and a 40mm base with a 2 hit knockdown is nothing to cry about. Add to that they he still charges one additional Inf point and I think you still have your middle control player.

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6 hours ago, Leader9-1 said:

You mean that with 5/7 instead of 5/8, TAC 5 instead of 6 and no INF back after Puppet master, "they just can't do it anymore" ?

the biggest hurt is the -1 tac, the rest is meh. bonesaw is gimmicky at best, you have to rely on multiple passes to pull him off and the morts aren't the best kickers. he does to a swift breeze with 4/0 and 12 boxes.

ghast doesn't do it as much as the used to, graves and cosset got better buthan not much else when other teams are much better. they are too slow for this meta is which the top teams are winning by 3-0 or 2-1. (fish and alchemists) 

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1 hour ago, sirez said:

the biggest hurt is the -1 tac, the rest is meh. bonesaw is gimmicky at best, you have to rely on multiple passes to pull him off and the morts aren't the best kickers. he does to a swift breeze with 4/0 and 12 boxes.

ghast doesn't do it as much as the used to, graves and cosset got better buthan not much else when other teams are much better. they are too slow for this meta is which the top teams are winning by 3-0 or 2-1. (fish and alchemists) 

If you aren't using Bonesaw, then of course you're going to struggle with the faster scoring teams - he's one of the faster scoring options available to Morticians...

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1 hour ago, FearLord said:

If you aren't using Bonesaw, then of course you're going to struggle with the faster scoring teams - he's one of the faster scoring options available to Morticians...

very true but he's tac 4 and 1" melee.  very easy to tie up

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1 hour ago, sirez said:

very true but he's tac 4 and 1" melee.  very easy to tie up

Depends - he's slippery, so only really low KD's threaten him on a parting blow (unless he has the ball, in which case tackles are also a problem) - if he's already scored, he's really hard to stop. He's also got a momentous dodge on 1 hit (so can disengage from 1" models with 2 attacks max). He's also got a push dodge on 2 hits, so as long as he isn't base to base with a 2" melee model, it's possible got him to disengage. It's not perfect, but he has options. If he has the ball he can always try and pass out, dodge and have a pass back...

Fast scoring is definitely possible with models like Scalpel, Obulus, Bonesaw, Mist or Avarisse & Greede...

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Morticians can absolutely play the scoring game. Obulus still had an 18" threat on goal when he doesn't start with the ball. (2" shadow like, 4" dodge when he receives, 6" sprint, 6" kick)

And that's with either us or them holding the ball. 

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2 hours ago, wrenwood said:

I think the Morticians are just no longer a faction where taking Obulus + Silence = win. That isn't a bad thing.

I agree, but sadly I have to agree on another point. Morticians feel like they have to be relearned from scratch. In my opinion it's that puppetmaster doesn't give back 1 Influence in combination with the loss of a max inf on him and the team in it's entirety.

EDIT: Fielding a guild with a mediocre def line that other guilds can put on the table as well, but an underwhelming amount of Boxes just means they have to do their goals as fast as Fish. Though I agree that Puppetmaster is still a thing, especially in a dedicated striker List. But taking Cosset is always a gamble, as all our models now die to a stiff breeze. 

EDIT2: It also should not be forgotten that Morticians always were a high skill high reward guild. I also posted this in another thread: They always had it hard, and when you got the hang of 'em you were rewarded with terrifing efficiency and effectivity.

Now it's even harder, as they got some hard nerfs while others got some hard buffs (well deserved buffs though!... mostly :D )

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8 hours ago, Cole said:

I agree, but sadly I have to agree on another point. Morticians feel like they have to be relearned from scratch. In my opinion it's that puppetmaster doesn't give back 1 Influence in combination with the loss of a max inf on him and the team in it's entirety.

EDIT: Fielding a guild with a mediocre def line that other guilds can put on the table as well, but an underwhelming amount of Boxes just means they have to do their goals as fast as Fish. Though I agree that Puppetmaster is still a thing, especially in a dedicated striker List. But taking Cosset is always a gamble, as all our models now die to a stiff breeze. 

EDIT2: It also should not be forgotten that Morticians always were a high skill high reward guild. I also posted this in another thread: They always had it hard, and when you got the hang of 'em you were rewarded with terrifing efficiency and effectivity.

Now it's even harder, as they got some hard nerfs while others got some hard buffs (well deserved buffs though!... mostly :D )

Were they that high skill cap? How much skill was there in putting 8 influence on Obulus and getting results? There's no real downside to Puppet Master when you still have 5 influence left to play with (and that's only in turns you actually need it rather than just making 8 attacks)...

Silence has lost health, certainly - he's now in line with all other def 5+ non captain models instead of being mind bogglingly much harder to kill (on top of everything else). His stat line is still excellent, and improved in terms of movement. All the Shut out and tucked tricks still work, and Fire Blast is pretty much a straight upgrade from where I'm sitting - he lost the extra influence, but this was necessary to stop him being the first player taken in every line up ever...

Graves got buffed. Cosset got buffed - she's still fragile, but now she actually gets something for that. Bonesaw got a lot more fragile, but most people didn't play him anyway, because he didn't do a lot - now he can do a lot. 

Obulus is still just as unkillable as ever - he lost a lot of his (far too great) power, but is still an extremely tricksy model that can get lots of work done, and support different types of team.

So like most teams, they got some nerfs and some buffs, but they are now actually a higher skill cap team...

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37 minutes ago, FearLord said:

Were they that high skill cap? How much skill was there in putting 8 influence on Obulus and getting results? There's no real downside to Puppet Master when you still have 5 influence left to play with (and that's only in turns you actually need it rather than just making 8 attacks)...

Silence has lost health, certainly - he's now in line with all other def 5+ non captain models instead of being mind bogglingly much harder to kill (on top of everything else). His stat line is still excellent, and improved in terms of movement. All the Shut out and tucked tricks still work, and Fire Blast is pretty much a straight upgrade from where I'm sitting - he lost the extra influence, but this was necessary to stop him being the first player taken in every line up ever...

Graves got buffed. Cosset got buffed - she's still fragile, but now she actually gets something for that. Bonesaw got a lot more fragile, but most people didn't play him anyway, because he didn't do a lot - now he can do a lot. 

Obulus is still just as unkillable as ever - he lost a lot of his (far too great) power, but is still an extremely tricksy model that can get lots of work done, and support different types of team.

So like most teams, they got some nerfs and some buffs, but they are now actually a higher skill cap team...

Good summary.

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Morticians are fine - players have to learn to play both captains. Scalpel will get her time in the sun now and she is an exceptional scorer/murderer. I'm sure players are salty about the changes to Obulus but Puppet Master costing 3 INF was silly. It combines Lure and Seduce - it has to cost more. And Obulus was supposed to be a tactician not a killer. You can still take Rage - you just can't break Obulus so easily.

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2 hours ago, FearLord said:

Were they that high skill cap? How much skill was there in putting 8 influence on Obulus and getting results? There's no real downside to Puppet Master when you still have 5 influence left to play with (and that's only in turns you actually need it rather than just making 8 attacks)...

Silence has lost health, certainly - he's now in line with all other def 5+ non captain models instead of being mind bogglingly much harder to kill (on top of everything else). His stat line is still excellent, and improved in terms of movement. All the Shut out and tucked tricks still work, and Fire Blast is pretty much a straight upgrade from where I'm sitting - he lost the extra influence, but this was necessary to stop him being the first player taken in every line up ever...

Graves got buffed. Cosset got buffed - she's still fragile, but now she actually gets something for that. Bonesaw got a lot more fragile, but most people didn't play him anyway, because he didn't do a lot - now he can do a lot. 

Obulus is still just as unkillable as ever - he lost a lot of his (far too great) power, but is still an extremely tricksy model that can get lots of work done, and support different types of team.

So like most teams, they got some nerfs and some buffs, but they are now actually a higher skill cap team...

 

DISCLAIMER: Okay, this came out to be a wall of Text. I just want everyone who reads this to know that this is my subjective opinion on the whole issue, some things are objective, for exampe the part on Silence, but my whole displease is subjective. It might sound like it, but all my experiences are... well, my experiences, therefore anecdotal and cannot be hold as high standard for proof. In the last paragraph I reflect. TL;DR, the one List I was good with is unplayable for me now, and I need to find something else. :)  I reflected this after I wrote all of this, therefore I won't delete it, so come with me on a journey of complaining, until I realise that I am the problem and my inability to adapt. :D 

 

Mh, true that. I never played him that way though. Only on key turns where it would ensure a win, otherwise it would have been too dicey for me (I roll poorly usually). 

It's not like I don't appreciate the buffs for the other team members, and I agree on the terms of Silence getting dropped down to 2/4, the thing with him though is that he really has no defensive capabilities, like most other 5/0 characters have it, another exception being Fillet. (The difference here though is she is a fucking murder machine AND classifies as Striker).

Usually a model like that has access to a low double dodge, unpredictable movement, clone or the likes. Another 1" on the run is not really compensating. It's nice though, I agree. :) 

Sidenote: I love the new Cosset. If the target is KD and engaged by the bird and another one or two models, and she has Confidence, that model is getting deleted usually. Funny enough she has to stay in your side of the pitch. Anything getting too close gets deleted. She goes to the other side of the Pitch, she's done.

What makes Obulus strange for me personally is that when I play Captains from other Teams, he seems to do less than everyone else. A Captain SHOULD be good at what he does, and more often than not has an ability that is a clone of a player ability but does more and/or costs less than that ability.
In some cases it costs more but also does more. I am just not sure if a 4 INF CP in a Team that at max generates 14 Influence and lacks momentum generation as well is doing it for me. It seems a little... sadthat Obulus is now nothing more than an Inf battery. I would like to play a Captain that participates, and not just stands around.

I still play him, and try ways to make him work in a way that fits, but I'd rather play Fillet, or the Union, as I feel a single Union player already does more than he does. It's not an argument for me to say "He generates 5 Influence for your team, so don't give him any, and there's five for your team left." Captains are Captains for a reason, and he seems to do less than any Captain currently in the game. Puppetmaster still does it's thing, but that's basically it.

"What do you mean, that's basically it? That is really strong! You should be happy about it!"
He has two other CP's as well, he has a playbook, too. A playbook where you can be happy to get the double dodge in most cases. I mean why is it that there are players that have a TAC higher than their playbook? Did Hammer need that? Personally I don't think so. Fillet? Nah. But they have it. He lost it. Why? Together with everything else, it sums up. Kinda reminds of the old version of the WoW Druid. Can do everything, but nothing really good. Maybe boost hsi kick to 3/6, so he doesn't fuck up every pass.

He is not good for anything else besides PM, except for a few occasions where to use Misdirection on Models like Rage or Boar, or occasionally putting Confidence on Cosset. And when there is no Cosset and no Rage or Boar in the game, well, give him six Influence to run, PM and pass the ball around, that's definitely worth 6, almost half the Influence of your team. ;) 

Excuse me the sarcastic tone at the end, but my Meta consists of nothing more anymore but Brewers, Masons and Union, and getting your teeth kicked in by a single model, e.g. Hammer, who strollingly kills a model or two and than kicks on goal with a kick value of 5/9, I am not so sure if I would call Obulus perfectly finetuned in comparison. (If you ask: 2 Hitting Cossett, two hitting Silence and than, within reach of Mallet, Ball Hog and Bonus Time on goal.)

The same goes for vetRage, Blackheart, Esters, Tapper, you name it. When I play vetRage I usally get my 10 to 15 momentum for the cost of 4 Influence and a free charge, round about 2 or three models die, usually two though. Blackheart wins the game for me in Round 2. In Round1 he does six points by killing and a goal, same in round 2. Brewers I don't play. 

Maybe I have pessimistic blindness, although I don't lose every game, but I don't see what makes them good anymore. Saying "Play another Team then" doesn't do it for me, because I am usually not the type that gives up. Although I have new insight on how to properly use Bonesaw, and I can't await to try that out. I will try to go for goal hunting, which is something I didn't do in S2 because I flunked more goalshots than everyone else in the club combined. Just an anecdotal story: I won that one game with three goals, but four goal kicks failed. :D If it weren't for tap in I wouldn't have won a single game since S3 hit. Which is actually really sad thinking about it now.

Which is also the reason why I went for the 6 takeout strategy, and it worked out fine. Doesn't really work anymore though. The two Influence are missing, the one max and the one from PM. That list was finetuned, and now it's gone. :/ And sadly that was the List I was good with. Mh, maybe that's the main problem I am having currently. 

                          ^  ^  ^  ^  ^
                           |   |   |   |   |

                            THIS

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