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TheBitterFish

A few pointers on how to deal with Spooks

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Hello 

I have a few upcoming league games against several Mortician teams. I have never played against them before so I was wondering if people could share some of their Tactics? We're playing with Season 2 and 3 plot cards + Guild plots (Ergo, standard big league).  

Any tips or tactics are welcome.

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Siren is amazing against Obulous team. They don't have a ton of access to girls, and she really puts a cramp on Puppet master so she's a good place to hold the ball. Also, she loves fear on Ghast since it gives her extra dice for her character plays!

Morticians can struggle against an aggressive scoring strategy, depending on how well they are coached, so taking shark as your skipper isn't a bad plan although you MUST be very alert to attempts to hide the ball at the back as that will starve you of momentum.

I have had decent success with: Shark, Salt, Siren, Angel, Sakana and Grey Scales which is a ton of threat saturation and uses Siren to hold and distribute the ball to the strikers. Tentacles might also work in that.

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They generally have glass jaws now, even if you run Shark against them (I prefer Corsair to abuse this) look for opportunities to score takeouts. Cosset is an easy one, Bonesaw if he's not scored yet is super easy also. If you're running Corsair almost anyone they can take is pretty fair game except maybe Casket and Ghast. Since Obulus can steal your momentum, just spend it/select non momentous results which help you win more staying around 3ish momentum until he decides to use his legendary or activate. That's also the secret to damage against them, we don't gain momentum from damage for the most part and we don't really care about that momentum (unless we're going for a goal/heal at that moment) before obulus's activation.

As others have said Siren is great at holding onto the ball against them, particularly Obulus as she gives the -5 RNG to his puppet master. Be careful about Ghast if you decide to run Kraken, particularly stay away from your own low defense models because of unmasking. I've screwed up big time once and got Siren killed from him repeatedly taking off his mask.

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Being a spooks player myself:

As stated before Siren is your go to gal for holding the ball.
Put a lot of pressure on the goal to give them multiple threats and the spooks game will be disrupted.
Specially with tap in now being a global skill everything is a scoring threat.

 

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On 12/8/2016 at 4:00 PM, Ik-tornado said:

As others have said Siren is great at holding onto the ball against them

Alternately, vSiren removes any hope of them dealing damage to you. Both are good options vs Morts.

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1 hour ago, Jorenm said:

Alternately, vSiren removes any hope of them dealing damage to you. Both are good options vs Morts.

I am not sure I can agree with this idea. I avoid talking about models I haven't played enough to feel I understand comprehensively. I haven't had much vSiren experience because until the recent changes I planned on never taking her to a tournament (I find Siren too vital.) As a result I haven't figured out her timing.

That said, on paper, she doesn't look like a good time against morticians or brewers (well the ones that understand Stave's power).Obulus waits for you to put up the aura and then makes you move 7" away, Scalpel once per game decides to pull her prey out of the bunker, Stave pushes her and failing to hit her still pushes the target out of position. 

Edit: Oh yeah and Cosset's lure. Morticians shouldn't have any issue with it.

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Can't you just parting blow her to stop the aura from moving too far? Also, if Cosset is luring her I think that's a lot of their killing power not making attacks or if they are still attacking with Cosset she is going to be attacking something that is probably not relevant.

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5 hours ago, Aus-Rotten said:

Can't you just parting blow her to stop the aura from moving too far? Also, if Cosset is luring her I think that's a lot of their killing power not making attacks or if they are still attacking with Cosset she is going to be attacking something that is probably not relevant.

Parting blow on Kraken or Corsair would left her too far to really be of use to them. Aura 4, -2 for their melee zone,  -1.8 for their base, -1/2 for enemy melee means the enemy is out and you've knocked her down for no reason. Jac and Shark are unlikely to hit the KD forcing you to take a point of damage instead. 

It depends on board state if trying to figure out what the best option is, but in general I think it's stupid for Cosset to charge into the pit in the first place unless she gets a kill because of how fragile she is, she also shouldn't be counted on making more than one attack anyway on most of our players who could push or dodge out of 1". I think it's in the Morticians best interest to pull the target out of position and beat up with others.

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21 hours ago, Ik-tornado said:

That said, on paper, she doesn't look like a good time against morticians or brewers (well the ones that understand Stave's power).Obulus waits for you to put up the aura and then makes you move 7" away, Scalpel once per game decides to pull her prey out of the bunker, Stave pushes her and failing to hit her still pushes the target out of position. 

Edit: Oh yeah and Cosset's lure. Morticians shouldn't have any issue with it.

I mean, if Siren goes first to put up the Aura, the rest of the team can follow her to keep the aura where it's needed. There are lots of issues with Scalpel not working well into vSiren. For one, it only takes one counter attack to disengage scalpel. She can only Legendary once per game, and it's gonna take more than 1 turn to kill Siren. With 1" melee you're going to often be down more than 2 dice. Obulus can puppet master her, but you're spending 4 INF to move a 2 (or 1) INF ability to a different place. Morts aren't killing anything with that kind of INF trade. The only really hard hitting things morts can do require set up which Fish are great at disrupting.

What models in morts can one-round a Fish? A tooled up Graves might if he's not in Dread Gaze or crowded out. Scalpel with Tooled Up if she's not in Dread Gaze or crowded out. Tooled up Obulus if he's not in Dread Gaze or crowded out. Tooled up + Dirged Cosset if not Dread Gaze/Crowded. The problem is you will almost always be crowded out and/or in Dread Gaze because even if you have 2" melee, you can't stay at max reach or a counter attack will disengage the target.

So yeah, going all the way back to s1 even before Dread Gaze existed, I found scrumming with Fish to be wasted effort. I think you're better off just playing the football game and maybe ganking a player when the opportunity arises.

 

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11 minutes ago, Jorenm said:

and it's gonna take more than 1 turn to kill Siren. With 1" melee you're going to often be down more than 2 dice. Obulus can puppet master her, but you're spending 4 INF to move a 2 (or 1) INF ability to a different place. Morts aren't killing anything with that kind of INF trade. The only really hard hitting things morts can do require set up which Fish are great at disrupting.

What models in morts can one-round a Fish? A tooled up Graves might if he's not in Dread Gaze or crowded out. Scalpel with Tooled Up if she's not in Dread Gaze or crowded out. Tooled up Obulus if he's not in Dread Gaze or crowded out. Tooled up + Dirged Cosset if not Dread Gaze/Crowded. The problem is you will almost always be crowded out and/or in Dread Gaze because even if you have 2" melee, you can't stay at max reach or a counter attack will disengage the target.

So yeah, going all the way back to s1 even before Dread Gaze existed, I found scrumming with Fish to be wasted effort. I think you're better off just playing the football game and maybe ganking a player when the opportunity arises.

 

You don't kill Siren unless you have the tools to do it, she is bait against all but a few teams. You make her a wasted model by negating her purpose, or letting her purpose happen and just ignoring it, going for the others instead. The choice is up to the Mortician player. There are some teams I really like the thought of her in but Morticians is one I doubt will never try her in.

They're never crowded out or gazed if they know how to pull out of position has been what I'm saying. Once they pull out an already activated model vSiren is trying to protect they're dead even if they counter attack, if they do then they win the momentum race for sure as well. It's also more ideal to weaken them to 1-2 HP, win the momentum race then take them out rather than taking them out near the end of a turn. It stretches the negative/control side of takeouts over a longer period of time.

But my core point: In my experiences, its rarely a wasted effort to keep 2 easy takeouts in your sights as long as you are efficient about it. I aim to have 1 takeout in the same turn as my second goal that way the opponent has to be cautious not to give you a window of opportunity for either VP condition. Keeping your options open means they have to defend from two angle, if they invest too many points in keeping the ball away you can beat them up for it. Against a good player having only a 3-0 game available is an easy win for them as they know how to stop you dead in your tracks, but it is a wasted effort to try to be indestructible in a formation against a team that can break it up. Siren enables the ball game against Morticians way more than vSiren disables them. We'll just have to agree to disagree on all this though.

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