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Snakeskin OK?

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Now that she has a momentous :<: on one hit she's much better as well. If she's there to hold the ball she's the same and buoyed by the changes to the players around her, but if she doesn't now she can generate some momentum at a pretty much 1:1 ratio with her influence, so she's never wasted. Add in a reasonably low momentous :T: and she's still kind of niche, but at least playable. Could be a decent ball holding counter to Obulus or Siren, though I struggle to figure out where she fits in a 9 player roster.

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She is very good with Blackheart in any setup, because she can be incredibly hard to kill and now that she has an early momentum pick for a dodge, even more so.

 

I think her value is pretty solidly placed in any footballing team because that's what you really need to have for a ball carrier/retriever. Examples of this are Greyscales, Sakana, Mallet, Hoist and Venin.

 

All of those examples share the similar trait of being fairly difficult to remove because of being dodgy, pushy, hardy or simply being Hoist.

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I used to take Snakeskin in my alchemist team to hold the ball, but with the new limit on union players, I don't see her in any alchemist team any time soon.  Fish generally don't need her since they have no shortage of great in guild footballers.  It would be interesting to see a Mason's team that utilized Snakeskin, but I haven't seen one yet.

I think right now her best place is under Blackheart or maybe in a very footbally Rage team.  Anyone else has better options for football oriented wingers and even those teams arguably have better options.

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That's the problem she seems to have now.  Before she just didn't seem quite good enough to make it on a team.  The teams that can take her either has someone that can do what she does already, possibly better, or with the one Union limitation there's another Union option that shines better than she does.  She isn't bad she's just ok.

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1 hour ago, naiconn1981 said:

She will be a pain to get the ball off with a Mason's team lined up with Tower.  

Sure, but is it worth the opportunity cost of not taking Minx?  You can use Snakeskin to do that while you have the ball, but Minx always works.

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35 minutes ago, LogicCrash said:

Sure, but is it worth the opportunity cost of not taking Minx?  You can use Snakeskin to do that while you have the ball, but Minx always works.

My bad.  Tower's heroic play is Guild only.  

 

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Can't see her making the 1 Union slot for another Guild and nobody seems to have a place for her in a Union 9.

I've only just painted her (a pain to put on a base) and I honestly can't see her getting table time.

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I ended up greenstuffing the base a little to have it cuddle the very bottom of the cloak to keep her in place, after placing grass I couldn't even notice. Sans pinning she is one of a few season 1 models that were difficult to place on a non slotted base.

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1 hour ago, Seryjniak said:

Quick question - Mist or Snakeskin :P ? When ? Why ? in what set ups :P ?

Quick answer - Mist

Mist has a longer goal threat and an easier time getting the ball.  Snakeskin's only value relative to Mist is her ability to be durable while spending only one influence to serve as a battery.  This is a real edge case and most teams have better choices for batteries.  Mist will score you VPs, Snakeskin is at best a denial piece.

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6 hours ago, Seryjniak said:

Quick question - Mist or Snakeskin :P ? When ? Why ? in what set ups :P ?

What about... both?  :D

I am new to Guild Ball so this is probably a terrible idea, but I'm having fun running a very footbally Blackheart / Coin / Mist / Snakeskin / A&G / Hemlocke lineup, all using Season 3 rules.  Mist, Snakeskin and A&G are all very credible goal scoring threats, with Blackheart, Coin and Hemlocke providing support. Very low damage output but high mobility and lots of momentous tackles and dodges early in playbooks makes it fun to try to string plays together.

Anyways, just IMHO.

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On 13.12.2016 at 6:44 AM, surfimp said:

What about... both?  :D

I am new to Guild Ball so this is probably a terrible idea, but I'm having fun running a very footbally Blackheart / Coin / Mist / Snakeskin / A&G / Hemlocke lineup, all using Season 3 rules.  Mist, Snakeskin and A&G are all very credible goal scoring threats, with Blackheart, Coin and Hemlocke providing support. Very low damage output but high mobility and lots of momentous tackles and dodges early in playbooks makes it fun to try to string plays together.

Anyways, just IMHO.

That is actually very good idea - it will be even better when we get dedicated footballing captain. When taking Coin, A&G, Harry, Snakeskin, Mist. Full on football team that could give a fisherman headache and easy to tool up to enemy with vet rage in substitution ...

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12 hours ago, Seryjniak said:

That is actually very good idea - it will be even better when we get dedicated footballing captain. When taking Coin, A&G, Harry, Snakeskin, Mist. Full on football team that could give a fisherman headache and easy to tool up to enemy with vet rage in substitution ...

This I think is a little sad, because I'm gonna miss playing Blackheart.

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6 hours ago, Makhina said:

This I think is a little sad, because I'm gonna miss playing Blackheart.

I like blackheart but i like what Rage did with him even more. This is classical tale of live by the sword and die by the sword. All thing coincided if Brisket will be Union cap this will be very nice twist from SF

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On 12/17/2016 at 5:04 PM, Seryjniak said:

That is actually very good idea - it will be even better when we get dedicated footballing captain. When taking Coin, A&G, Harry, Snakeskin, Mist. Full on football team that could give a fisherman headache and easy to tool up to enemy with vet rage in substitution ...

I definitely like the mobility of Mist and Snakeskin. I'm finding that in S3, both are great at getting a ball off a ball carrier, dodging away and scoring.

Hemlocke is an interesting piece in that she has a momentous tackle on 1 result, so can be an option for a tackle & pass up to Mist or Snakeskin. I often find her with just 2 Inf left, however, after having maxed out both of the previous two... meaning that idea (walk up, attack / tackle, attack / dodge away & pass) is more theory than reliable practice for me at this point. Her Noxious Blast isn't much of a threat in a team with such low overall damage output, and I've invariably failed every Blind roll I've made with her, so her auxiliary support role isn't proving too helpful. I can see replacing her with Harry and plan to try that out in the near future (I've been made to understand that I've been a good boy this year and Santa's got me a Hat for my stocking).

A&G are tricky to use well in S3 but I can't see replacing them. I feel like their skill floor is a bit higher, but can see there's quite a bit of potential and utility on offer. I normally max their Inf out, just to give myself options.

The above see Blackheart and Coin winding up with 0 Inf much of the time in the early game (when I'm focused on scoring with Mist and/or Snakeskin), but towards midgame a maxed-Inf Blackheart can prove tremendously useful for getting the ball back and then firing off some quick passing (via On My Mark) to get the ball back up to scorers.

Guild Ball is definitely a great game, and although I'm absolute trash and have yet to win a game against an experienced opponent, I'm pleased to say I'm now losing by less! Ha! I am happy with my pick of team and am really enjoying sinking my teeth into learning them.

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On 12/12/2016 at 0:47 PM, Seryjniak said:

Quick question - Mist or Snakeskin :P ? When ? Why ? in what set ups :P ?

When you're the local provider of models and your opponent takes Mist because you were generous enough to allow him first choice in model selection ;)

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On ‎12‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 11:44 PM, surfimp said:

What about... both?  :D

I am new to Guild Ball so this is probably a terrible idea, but I'm having fun running a very footbally Blackheart / Coin / Mist / Snakeskin / A&G / Hemlocke lineup, all using Season 3 rules.  Mist, Snakeskin and A&G are all very credible goal scoring threats, with Blackheart, Coin and Hemlocke providing support. Very low damage output but high mobility and lots of momentous tackles and dodges early in playbooks makes it fun to try to string plays together.

Anyways, just IMHO.

I had not considered both an option. I'm still stuck in the BH needs a few hitters around him mindset. Sacrificing all dmg output for footballing might just work. BH is tanky enough to hold a spot and all those tackles and scoring threats make it interesting.

Love this idea. Might steal it for my next game and report how it goes.

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17 hours ago, riffbw said:

I had not considered both an option. I'm still stuck in the BH needs a few hitters around him mindset. Sacrificing all dmg output for footballing might just work. BH is tanky enough to hold a spot and all those tackles and scoring threats make it interesting.

Love this idea. Might steal it for my next game and report how it goes.

 
 

You can likely swap Hemlock out for Decimate and be ok with that lineup. BH / Coin / Decimate / Snakeskin / Mist / A&G as your lineup gives you really good ball handling plus some hitting when necessary. BH is a mid-tier hitter now but Decimate plus butchery can deal some excellent damage. You lose out on a Mom T on 1, but pick up some punch to round out your team.

Personally, I'll be looking at the following line-up for my next couple games: BH/Coin/Decimate/Harry/A&G/Mist or Snakeskin.

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I have played a few more games now and am still quite happy with Snakeskin for this football-oriented lineup. The only real weakness - and this may be a mark of inexperience and/or a failure of imagination as much as anything - is that Hemlocke, played in more a passive support role, just doesn't contribute enough. And in fairness, after splashing out 12 Inf between Mist, Snakeskin, and A&G, there's just not much left for her.

I'm really feeling that Minx's efficiency may be a good solution, if only for area denial via her mobility and potential damage and movement debuff output. She'll be able to play sort of a dual role, helping with both the football attack (tackle on 2) as well as having damage interplay options when combined with Blackheart and A&G in "unit delete" mode.

Harry might be good, too, but I question how often I'd have my attacking players close enough to him to take advantage of his hat ability. And he's influence hungry in a way that Minx isn't.

This is a fun game! Much to learn, but interesting choices throughout.

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Snakeskin is an awkward bugger. I don't think I've ever had a bad game with her she's so incredibly versatile, yet I always find myself having to force her into a team rather than being a natural pick.

Let me explain - she's 2 dmg on two hits with tac 5, which is not spectacular but it is reliable and is made more palatable with Blackheart's butchery. Being only 5 results on the playbook she also wraps pretty easily on a charge. So she can consistently deal low damage or consistently rack up momentum.

She's super surviveable, especially with Blackheart's legendary. She can get the ball with ease - 2" free dodge, easy tackle results (the tackle/dodge result is fantastic), she's 3/6" so she's a better than average footballer.

Everything about her screams she should be high on everyone's list. But...

The damage isn't momentous and the 3 damage result is tough for her to get, so she can't be relied upon to take down that target that absolutely needs to be stopped. She's only 8" max move, which sounds churlish to complain about but has to be compared with Mist's mobility (you can use his 2" dodge before or after the advance, unlike Snakeskin having to be before), Minx' 11" charge or even Decimate's 9", second wind and all her damage results are momentous and have dodge.

She's super surviveable, but it's damn expensive. 3 inf to put it all up. If you're going to use her to tackle, sprint, kick the ball and try to defend herself, all of which she's really good at, you find yourself an influence or two short. This isn't helped by Coin and Blackheart's influence abilities being allocate rather than gain. For me this sums up the big problem with Snakeskin - she's too influence hungry. She's good at everything but only if you load her up. There are other players in the guild who may not be as versatile as her but in their specialised field they are so much better and more efficient than Snakeskin.

But I'm going to keep taking her. Her versatility means that so long as she has some influence on her she will do something every turn. At the start of the game I like to activate her first, throw up the defenses and dare someone to target her. Second turn on I activate her late in the turn when I know where the ball is going to be and how badly wounded people are. Late in the game she becomes one of the first to activate again, tackling the ball and threatening the goal.

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For me, I bring Snakeskin on my 'beater' team, because she's my ball carrier. If I'm trying to shut down the opposing teams scoring potential, than Snakeskin is who I want to have the ball. Def 5+ base against most models in the game before she activates, and her speed and her abilities make her even harder to tag to get the ball from.

When the time is right, she can go in and score, but until then, she's there to deny the ball to the opposing team so Vrage can do his dirty work.

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