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TheLieutenant

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1 minute ago, Misery said:

I've been playing Blackheart since I started playing at just before season two. Blackheart is not Shark. He isn't geared up for one thing like Shark is (scoring). The beauty of Blackheart was in his versatility. My point is, On My Mark is not play style defining. It's a neat ability that is only useful half the time at most.

"If my team has the ball, I probably score a goal immediately, or get a massive mobility advantage" seems pretty playstyle defining to me.

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Steamforged really needs to stop making me want to buy more teams. First Midas now Blackheart making me buy into teams that aren't fish. it's the holiday season, I need to save money!

Seriously though Blackheart looks super fun now. I only owned vRage as my union captain because they both felt so similar, these changes are great imo.

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@Misery In what way was he versatile? I mean he didn't really generate the momentum that was needed to move the ball and his team around effectively which he does now. The beater aspect of Blackheart hinself was really good at best with no damage and momentum until later in the playbook, so if the dice didn't go your way he just didn't do anything other than dodging around or putting some really weak damage out even with commanding aura. The real and reliable damage, as with Ox teams comes/came from the other players who have their bigger damage lower in the playbook and could/can utilize the influence better like gutter, decimate etc. As stated earlier in the thread he really does come into his own with these changes. Sure butchery can be seen as a bad play and yes I agree there, I've actually never used it with Ox but it feels easier to activate with it being easier to reach in the playbook on Blackheart. But it has also been stated earlier thst Union needs one more striker/winger to really put Blackheart into his own and I feel the same.

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I don't see it as him getting nerfed when pretty much he and vet rage focused on the same area of the game. blackheart with commanding aura vs vet rage with his heroic and legendary. football was left to the other 4 you took. in this focus, blackheart is not pure damage and brings more versatility . 

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3 minutes ago, sirez said:

I don't see it as him getting nerfed when pretty much he and vet rage focused on the same area of the game. blackheart with commanding aura vs vet rage with his heroic and legendary. football was left to the other 4 you took. in this focus, blackheart is not pure damage and brings more versatility . 

It's a shame that beyond Mist who footballs alone the Union players are set up to preferentially get into melee rather than play ball.

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Yeah, can't say I ever had difficulty scoring with Union, but it was often easier to go 1/4 with a Blackheart team. My hope is Snakeskin gets something of a boost to give us some serious footballing possibilities between her, Mist and Blackheart.

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13 minutes ago, EpicChris said:

Snakeskin?? 10" move and 6" kick?

Decimate and Gutter having 3/6 Kicks?

You don't always have to punch people.

This. You have 15 inch 3 dice threat on goal in Decimate. Gutter is a 14 inch 3 dice threat on goal. Hemlocke is a 14 inch 3 dice threat. Snakeskin is is 16 inch 3 dice threat. Even new Blackheart is still a 14 inch threat with 3 dice. 2 of these models can shadow like out of melee. Most have dodges early in the playbook for extra movement and getting out of combat. From turn 2 onward you can out football all non dedicated football teams while still having Mist as a goal threat turn 1 potentially. The teams you can't out football completely can still be beat down through decent momentus damage from a few of the listed models. 

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I will say, even though I prefer Blackheart the way he was, I do like the idea of being able to Second wind Decimate to retrieve the kick off, jog back with it, then have Blackheart make her pass to a teammate.

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Yeah, a lot of the S3 versions of Union players haven't been revealed yet so it's too early to say what their footballing options are. It's strongly suspected that A&G are going to change significantly as well so there could be more football support there.

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Really excited about the new Blackheart.  The old one was good in the sense of power level, but very bland, feeling more like a collection of useful statistics than a real character on the table.  Technically fun, but I've never been inspired to play him compared to similar, more flavorful captains like Tapper/Ox or even just vRage.  The latter of those really highlighted how strong but flavorless the original Blackheart was for me in particular.  The new one's better emphasis on pillaging the opponent's Inf and commanding the other players on his team looks way more interesting, particularly  with the option to switch to vRage as necessary.

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What I would like to see is a midfielder or winger with OK to decent tackling and a reposition that can be used during the activation (in the vein of Where's They Go) to be able to escape or a 4/6 kick to be able to more reliably pass the ball when engaged.

I have found that Snakeskin has no issue getting into the fight once but once there I find that getting out in the same turn and then staying out is very expensibe resources wise and hard to do especially when there are reach models in the equation.

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Just joining in on the chorus.  The new Blackheart sounds so fun to play now.  I've been playing Blackheart union over a dozen times in the last month and he pretty much always had 2 INF (unless I absolutely needed to kill something) to turn on Commanding Aura and sit there.  Once in a while I can get the ball and score.  Now he can do so much more at the "expense" of losing damage (which I rarely made Blackheart do because of the non-momentous low dmg results).  Also, with Commanding Aura up, Blackheart was usually the first victim against more killy teams, as they do everything to kill him first before Gutter, Decimate, and others can capitalize on the aura.  Now they have a captain that can move the ball like crazy (esp with new Harry), do momentous dodge/damage, and play a ball game. 

I'd say leave the killing to vRage, Union needed a more football focused team! :)

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8 hours ago, Banjulhu said:

This feels like an over all nerf for blackheart rather than a refocus.

Edited by Makhina
iPad failure can't edit

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I think he's worse for sure, as a broad statement. Justifiably so - IMO, Blackheart was the strongest captain in the game in Season 1 and 2 (perhaps not the best team, but the best captain) because he had insane mobility, decent KICK, the ability to move Commanding Aura around to just completely destroy anything in it together with his team (or even without them), a really strong legendary.... his only weakness was really his DEF of 3+.

Now they've reduced his movement by 1", and his legendary aura by 2", and Butchery is almost strictly worse than Commanding Aura. Definite nerfs. 

On the flipside, I think he may have actually gotten stronger at higher skill levels, because of On My Mark and the new (cost efficient) Misdirection giving him so much unpredictability in player and ball movement. There aren't many ways to move the ball off a friendly player that has already activated, let alone do it multiple times a turn. It's the football equivalent of vetRage's Red Fury. On top of that, the momentous double dodge on 2 is really strong.

Another winner I think. Some will undoubtedly be upset at the loss of Commanding Aura, but that's what it takes to have competitive captain choices.

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9 hours ago, TheLieutenant said:

Ooooh, look. New Blackheart. That's quite exciting, isn't it? ;) 

http://steamforged.com/sfg-news-blog/2016/11/16/a0qlkkqiyjx6c4ese7mzh5r4mnigsr

 

I'll be floating around here to answer questions for a while if anyone has any! Enjoy! 

EDIT: Joined these two threads since apparently myself and Giblin made one at the same time. Discuss away! 

Interesting way to nerf him. Dunno if lowering the speed was needed and now he is pretty much a kicking captain unless you get butchery result early. Overall union will still do damage, I just hope they buffed vRage to compensate

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7 minutes ago, JS said:

It's the football equivalent of vetRage's Red Fury.

This.  Didn't think of it before, but couldn't agree more!

3 minutes ago, Makhina said:

Interesting way to nerf him. Dunno if lowering the speed was needed and now he is pretty much a kicking captain unless you get butchery result early. Overall union will still do damage, I just hope they buffed vRage to compensate

Does vRage need to be buffed?  He already murders almost any model each turn...

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4 minutes ago, kryzak said:

Does vRage need to be buffed?  He already murders almost any model each turn...

I think he is easier to control overall and he doesn't do much for the team. He might be a monster but this is a team game, so something to help him support his team while he tries to get in combat would be nice. 

On a positive note on Blackheart, I do love that he now has a momentous damage and dodge on the two, which will be the biggest thing about him and his scoring game

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18 minutes ago, Makhina said:

I think he is easier to control overall and he doesn't do much for the team. He might be a monster but this is a team game, so something to help him support his team while he tries to get in combat would be nice.

Red Fury, Quick Time and My Gang are all very supportive character traits.

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4 minutes ago, Commander Vimes said:

Red Fury, Quick Time and My Gang are all very supportive character traits.

Yeah, vRage has quite a bit of a tool box to help his team...

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21 minutes ago, kryzak said:

Yeah, vRage has quite a bit of a tool box to help his team...

I guess I wasn't clear, he is not supportive enough.

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1 minute ago, Makhina said:

I guess I wasn't clear, he is not supportive enough.

Not trying to be cheeky here, but does he have to be?  I personally think vRage is in a good place balanced between Ox level of team support and Fillet level of super-solo-not-helping-the-team.

For a killing captain, he's actually quite well situated in the middle. 

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I'm quite surprised by how many people think of Blackheart as a out-and-out beater captain. The way I've seen him played (and played him myself) is as a super-versatile master-of-all-trades. The Legendary on the first turn surprises people quite often and I regularly see him score turn one - just last weekend I did that myself, and then scored with him again 2nd activation of turn two. 2 ARM makes it hard to drive him off and Shadow Like makes it difficult to pin him down or hide the ball from him. Commanding Aura is a beast of an ability, and the swap to Butchery tones him down a little (Gutter/Decimate + Commanding Aura is just horrible to face) which I'm fine with, and I like the On The Mark as it looks suitably tricksy (and who doesn't want a reliable One Touch Football?).

What I don't like is the reduction in movement. vRage is that speed (right?) but Blackheart is supposed to be the footballing captain, so why give him the speed of Brick and Boar and vRage, all purely dedicated beaters? Shadow-Like might give him 2" more, but 9" movement seems fine for a footballing captain to me, especially with a 6" kick.

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