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Redmaw

Season 3 Hunters / Wishlist

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This is not really about rules but I want a Hunter Vet Minx and a moon priest or priestess. May be with a wolf or owl mascot. The current hunter seem oriented on traps I want to see the savage hunt where you run down you foes more then the trapper hunting.

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3 hours ago, wrenwood said:

With these changes (http://steamforged.com/sfg-news-blog/2016/10/26/momentum-playbooks) I want to see changes to the bear. Compare Sheena to Cosset now. I could see the playbooks dropping by one, but two? Spending 0 influence she is now able to charge 9 + 1" rolling 11 die (+1 tac +1 damage with the bird). Her playbook is only five long with momentous three on four and momentous 2 on 2. She took 3 damage to do that, but is also giving 2 influence out. So she can get in 3 attacks fueling herself. The Bear is 0/2, charges 7 with 2" (so shorter range by 1) has only 1 momentous damage on 3, 2 non momentous on 3, three non momentous on 4, and doesn't really get great plays until 5+ successes (with 7 long playbook). Outside of the charge the bear isn't likely to be doing any momentous damage unless the target is KD and snared or crowded out (which is much less likely in Hunters than Butchers). Cosset is doing an almost automatic 2 momentous (three with the bird) every attack. Throw in her easier changes to wrap and she is outclassing the bear on damage, and momentous damage in particular plus is bringing two influence to the team.

In general for a "damage" team we need tweaks to to Hearne, Sheena, and maybe Egret to be on par with the damage other teams can put out. If Chisel also gets a 2 column reduction in her playbook . . . ugh.

Seenah has 2" Melee (huge benefit) and is much harder to kill than Cosset. Easy KD is another advanatage the bear enjoys. Seenah is a really strong model right now - I would not expect a lot to change with him. New Cosset looks great, but she's great at what she was always meant to be - a glass Cannon. Seenah already does what he was supposed to be doing...

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2 hours ago, FearLord said:

Seenah has 2" Melee (huge benefit) and is much harder to kill than Cosset. Easy KD is another advanatage the bear enjoys. Seenah is a really strong model right now - I would not expect a lot to change with him. New Cosset looks great, but she's great at what she was always meant to be - a glass Cannon. Seenah already does what he was supposed to be doing...

I guess my biggest concern with the Bear is the 0/2 stat. Yes the bear isn't doing as much damage but as you noted has easy access to KD. The Bear has to get that two influence from someone else while Cosset self generates it. I don't think Seenah needs to be 2/2 but would 1/2 be that crazy? Without the charge Seenah struggles (at least for me).

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30 minutes ago, wrenwood said:

I guess my biggest concern with the Bear is the 0/2 stat. Yes the bear isn't doing as much damage but as you noted has easy access to KD. The Bear has to get that two influence from someone else while Cosset self generates it. I don't think Seenah needs to be 2/2 but would 1/2 be that crazy? Without the charge Seenah struggles (at least for me).

I happily give Seenah 2 influence every turn - your mileage may vary, but I consider Seenah an extremely strong model that is only balanced by lack of Influence generation. In my experience, Seenah dominates games in ways that other models just don't.

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5 hours ago, FearLord said:

I happily give Seenah 2 influence every turn - your mileage may vary, but I consider Seenah an extremely strong model that is only balanced by lack of Influence generation. In my experience, Seenah dominates games in ways that other models just don't.

Well, under that optic I can see why you think an influence buff is not necessary.

I don't think it's the only thing they could do mind you - making his playbook a bit less top heavy would also go a long way (so that he can do more without needing to charge - i still don't get why he is so good at getting the ball from enemies when he's terrible at handling the ball once has it).

I like Seenah too, he's in my 8man line up, but I can't help but feel like he's missing something when compared to some of the top end bruisers.

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11 hours ago, FearLord said:

I happily give Seenah 2 influence every turn - your mileage may vary, but I consider Seenah an extremely strong model that is only balanced by lack of Influence generation. In my experience, Seenah dominates games in ways that other models just don't.

 

5 hours ago, tarkand said:

Well, under that optic I can see why you think an influence buff is not necessary.

I don't think it's the only thing they could do mind you - making his playbook a bit less top heavy would also go a long way (so that he can do more without needing to charge - i still don't get why he is so good at getting the ball from enemies when he's terrible at handling the ball once has it).

I like Seenah too, he's in my 8man line up, but I can't help but feel like he's missing something when compared to some of the top end bruisers.

I completely agree with FearLord. Seenah might not delete players right or left every game, but she is a strong anchor piece and dominates the flow of a game like no other.

With 2 INF on her, my experience is that my opponent spents much time and more than 2 INF on just worrying about her. And in most cases, she can at least knock 2 people down. So it's almost always worth it.

I feel like giving her 1/2 INF is way too strong. Additionally, it takes the uniqueness off of her, which would be a shame IMO. However, like @tarkand I think she could use a slight rework of her playbook, because apart from the KD on the 2 it is very top heavy. Changing one lower result would be more than enough.

She'll remain in my 6/8 regardless of changes, however, because without her my Hunters become quite sad...

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I think the biggest two weaknesses Hunters have is lack of Where'd They Go and Tooled Up. They are two most powerful plays in the game, and lacking both is pretty brutal. They have cut versions of them (Back to the Shadows and Isolated Target) but those are situational and only on Egret & Jaecar & the animals and not proper versions either. 

Hunters just seem to have to work much harder to achieve results other teams just get out the box. And with lack of Union subs either (so no Decimates or Rages or Mists) they really suffer competitively. I sort of understand mechanically why all this is here and I know Jamie has said they will never get Tooled Up but I don't understand why - is Jaecar really broken with +1 DMG? More than Fillet??

Maybe if they get 4 more players they will open up as a team - if they get 4 more players - I haven't seen anything to indicate S3 isn't just 2 new teams and maybe Rookies...

 

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2 minutes ago, EpicChris said:

I think the biggest two weaknesses Hunters have is lack of Where'd They Go and Tooled Up. They are two most powerful plays in the game, and lacking both is pretty brutal. They have cut versions of them (Back to the Shadows and Isolated Target) but those are situational and only on Egret & Jaecar & the animals and not proper versions either. 

Hunters just seem to have to work much harder to achieve results other teams just get out the box. And with lack of Union subs either (so no Decimates or Rages or Mists) they really suffer competitively. I sort of understand mechanically why all this is here and I know Jamie has said they will never get Tooled Up but I don't understand why - is Jaecar really broken with +1 DMG? More than Fillet??

Maybe if they get 4 more players they will open up as a team - if they get 4 more players - I haven't seen anything to indicate S3 isn't just 2 new teams and maybe Rookies...

 

The fluff for PintPot and Granite really doesn't sound like they are rookies so I suspect each team will get another player, captain and rookie.

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There is no set release pattern for the existing Guilds, unlike season 2.

The designers have said in interviews some guilds will get Captains, some Veterans, some new players and some mascots.

Hunter's will get at least what other's did in Season 2. 

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My hopes for season three Hunters are Minx, a bird of prey mascot, and Veteran Seenah.

Minx was all but handed to the Hunters in the season two fluff. I don't know that she need to become a veteran as some have suggested since the veteran title seems to be the way Steamforged emphasizes the way you make character choices. Plus Hunter's Guild Minx would have a different play style since she's rejoining her people.

As for mascots the four legged land animals have had their fun, now it's time for some fearsome birds.

I would LOVE to see Veteran Seenah in human form! Possibly as a bad boy/girl of the Hunter's Guild that was forced to take on animal form, or a Druid who's trapped by some mishap with a ritual.

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12 hours ago, Nasty Butler said:

My hopes for season three Hunters are Minx, a bird of prey mascot, and Veteran Seenah.

Minx was all but handed to the Hunters in the season two fluff. I don't know that she need to become a veteran as some have suggested since the veteran title seems to be the way Steamforged emphasizes the way you make character choices. Plus Hunter's Guild Minx would have a different play style since she's rejoining her people.

As for mascots the four legged land animals have had their fun, now it's time for some fearsome birds.

I would LOVE to see Veteran Seenah in human form! Possibly as a bad boy/girl of the Hunter's Guild that was forced to take on animal form, or a Druid who's trapped by some mishap with a ritual.

I think a bird mascot would make sense. As for the other two, remember than veteran models can not be used on the pitch with their non-veteran version. Veteran versions of Minx or Seenah would limit model choices in our already restricted lineup. I can't see steamforge doing that.

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17 minutes ago, wrenwood said:

I think a bird mascot would make sense. As for the other two, remember than veteran models can not be used on the pitch with their non-veteran version. Veteran versions of Minx or Seenah would limit model choices in our already restricted lineup. I can't see steamforge doing that.

That's just how veteran models work though. It's most likely that our Vet player will be a model we currently have access to. I'm pretty sure that's how every S2 veteran worked. As long as our Vet isn't also our Captain, it shouldn't be an issue. As we should be getting more models to catch us up to what other teams were at S2. And ideally, they will be opening up more Union players to us. If they are doing what is rumored, and restricting how many Union players tourny teams can have in their 8, then veteran minx would actually be perfect. As you could have minx on top of your Union players up to the limit.

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5 hours ago, Kryshek said:

That's just how veteran models work though. It's most likely that our Vet player will be a model we currently have access to. I'm pretty sure that's how every S2 veteran worked. As long as our Vet isn't also our Captain, it shouldn't be an issue. As we should be getting more models to catch us up to what other teams were at S2. And ideally, they will be opening up more Union players to us. If they are doing what is rumored, and restricting how many Union players tourny teams can have in their 8, then veteran minx would actually be perfect. As you could have minx on top of your Union players up to the limit.

I understand how veterans work. I would like to see a veteran Minx on our team. I just think it would have to be in addition to more unique characters to open up for flexibility. I'm fine with a veteran Minx as long as we get enough other players. I don't want to see it if we only get one or two other players.

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In regards to Veterans, I think as a guild we should look to training up those models we feel are a little lack lustre.

 

Thus from all the threads I have been reading I would say that 

Egret requires a better shooting skill.

Zarola requires something more than Midnight offering.

Hearne requires to have longer movement thus removing the possibility of forest walking being telegraphed.

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8 hours ago, Major_Fokker said:

As the Union already have a veteran in Rage, I doubting Minx will make the cut.

They have talked about players swapping guild before so it's by no means beyond the realm of possibility that a veteran Minx would be Hunter's only.

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On the Podcast Who Cares Who Wins they briefly talk about Sheenah. He is still 0/2 and defense 2+ with one armor. The podcast says he has a roar ability that at the start of his activation he can pick a model and give them a 2" push. Unless it is a 2" reach model in base to base that would free him up for a charge. So that is a change in the right direction. Mob favorite is just a part of bear hug now which still does 4 damage and bleed.

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1 hour ago, wrenwood said:

On the Podcast Who Cares Who Wins they briefly talk about Sheenah. He is still 0/2 and defense 2+ with one armor. The podcast says he has a roar ability that at the start of his activation he can pick a model and give them a 2" push. Unless it is a 2" reach model in base to base that would free him up for a charge. So that is a change in the right direction. Mob favorite is just a part of bear hug now which still does 4 damage and bleed.

What time during the cast?

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1 hour ago, wrenwood said:

On the Podcast Who Cares Who Wins they briefly talk about Sheenah. He is still 0/2 and defense 2+ with one armor. The podcast says he has a roar ability that at the start of his activation he can pick a model and give them a 2" push. Unless it is a 2" reach model in base to base that would free him up for a charge. So that is a change in the right direction. Mob favorite is just a part of bear hug now which still does 4 damage and bleed.

OMGOMGOMGOMGOMG!  If that is the final change, that is a very smart change (as is with most of the S3 reveals so far)!

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59 minutes ago, Plebian said:

What time during the cast?

It was maybe 40 minutes in? One of my friends pointed out the topic so I hunted through until I found it. They also talk about A & G. It seems almost certain they are losing their double activation shtick.

Hmm although now that I think of it, if you are engaging a model you can't charge right? So even if a 1" model gets into you base to base, a 2" push would mean you are still engaging them. So any model base to base would circumvent this. It will be interesting to see what this ability looks like in print.

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2 hours ago, Plebian said:

What time during the cast?

Matt talks about it 1:26:30 into the podcast.

Matt Hart stated the follow changes to Seenah:

1: The mob favorite ability is gone. They've reworded Bear Hug so if the character play is used to takeout a model you gain plus 1VP.
2: New character trait called Intimidating Roar. At the start of Seenahs activation he may choose a enemy model within his melee zone, that model is pushed 2 inches directly away.

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11 hours ago, wrenwood said:

On the Podcast Who Cares Who Wins they briefly talk about Sheenah. He is still 0/2 and defense 2+ with one armor. The podcast says he has a roar ability that at the start of his activation he can pick a model and give them a 2" push. Unless it is a 2" reach model in base to base that would free him up for a charge. So that is a change in the right direction. Mob favorite is just a part of bear hug now which still does 4 damage and bleed.

Link to said podcast? I tried to look it up, but apparently downloaded the wrong one. 

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15 hours ago, wrenwood said:

It was maybe 40 minutes in? One of my friends pointed out the topic so I hunted through until I found it. They also talk about A & G. It seems almost certain they are losing their double activation shtick.

Hmm although now that I think of it, if you are engaging a model you can't charge right? So even if a 1" model gets into you base to base, a 2" push would mean you are still engaging them. So any model base to base would circumvent this. It will be interesting to see what this ability looks like in print.

You are allowed to charge as long as you are not engaged.  Your own melee range is not relevant for charging [EDIT: note that you still can't charge a model you're engaging].

This is a very good, subtle and flavourful tweak of Seenah. It highlights her strengths instead of diluting her uniqueness (i.e. 0/2 INF). I'd have loved to see a momentous result on her 4th column, but won't complain in any way!

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4 minutes ago, Commander Vimes said:

You are allowed to charge as long as you are not engaged.  Your own melee range is not relevant for charging.

This is a very good, subtle and flavourful tweak of Seenah. It highlights her strengths instead of diluting her uniqueness (i.e. 0/2 INF). I'd have loved to see a momentous result on her 4th column, but won't complain in any way!

This isn't correct:

Rulebook page 21:  A model may not declare a Charge if it is currently engaged by an enemy model. A model may not target an enemy model that it is currently engaging with a Charge.

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