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Banjulhu

Season 3 and the Fisherman's Guild

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So I have been looking over the spoiled changes coming in season 3 that have been spotted in the upcoming Brewer vs Mason box set.

We know that Tactical Advice is changing to only provide +1 to a models max Inf. This will hurt the Shark and Angel pairing given that Shark teams tend to run hot and need all the Inf they can find in turn 1. Sadly just an increase on Angels Inf cap Angel to a 5 Inf is largely moot as a Sprint followed by Super Shot and Nimble and then a kick action only needs 4 inf so if she keeps Tactical Advice it will likely be an ability that hardly ever comes up.

Balls Gone seems to be changing to allow the ball to be taken and then a pass to be made without spending influence, that is good and bad as it would allow generation of MP and all the teamwork tricks we enjoy but it could cause bother due to passing not being a sure thing especially when the passer is locked in combat.

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The other models with Tactical Advice we know of have gained inf on their statlines. Stoker is now 2/4 and Tapper is 4/5. I wouldn't be surprised if they changed Angel a lot in Season 3, since at the moment she's a pretty awful choice, so I imagine they will switch things up a little.

Ball's Gone is pretty much a straight buff, since the "place on a model within 4"" effect pretty much never came up. Making a pass has more range, and more importantly triggers teamwork actions (and one touch football if it's still there), as well as generating momentum.

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Angel is not an aweful choice, she is just an overall week model that sadly porvides the one thing the orginal Fish team absolutely needed to win, a lot of kicking range and dice to kick with.

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I hope Angel gets a buff more than anything. I like using her, but she's always just shy of doing anything in my games.

The big issues are always that 1. the tackle is the only reasonable momentum generation from her, and my opponent rarely has the ball on a model within 9" and 2. Her lack of dodges except on 2 hits which is rare with TAC 4.

Overall looking forward to our new cards, if only because I want to see and use them now.

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I imagine we are probably getting the fewest changes of any factions as our internal balance is really strong and strong tournament players are all using very different choices. Would expect a slight buff for Angel and Kraken and maybe a slight debuff to a couple models (Wouldn't be surprised if Caught in a Net goes to 6"...) but no massive shifts. 

That being said I think our Union options are going to all be vastly different than they are now so that could be an interesting shift in my lineup at least. 

Really looking forward to it. 

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I'm expecting something like this:

Shark - Caught In A Net reduced in effect somehow - maybe applying Snared? That would be awesome. I'd like to see his playbook move a little (swapping :3: and :PP: would be awesome) but I doubt he'll be changed much.

Corsair - Probably fine as is. His Legendary is a bit lackluster, but I'm not sure what it could change to.

Salt - Hopefully a little more useful. Would be great if he got an extra kick die, but that's probably too far. Giving him Slippery (+1 DEF against parting blows) would be appropriate IMO.

Tentacles - I expect Blind to get changed, because one die character plays need to be way stronger (Shutout, Tucked) or they're just bad, especially when you're putting influence and spending an early activation on your mascot to do potentially nothing. It would be better if it cost 2. Alternatively, any allied-player buff or aura would be great, and keep him differentiated from Salt.

Angel - could do with a buff. I'd love to see a T<< (or even just T<) on her fourth column. Tactical Advice is clearly changing. I don't think players that contribute 3inf are good for the game. If Nimble became Acrobatic that would be great. If she needed a nerf in other areas to compensate, losing some kick dice and gaining Kick Support (Salt) would be appropriate and probably fine.

Siren - probably just fine. Three situational defensive abilities on the same model mean that sometimes she's impossible to deal with and sometimes she just dies. I'd like to make her more reliably somewhere in the middle ground by giving her abilities that are less powerful, but work more of the time. Lure is never something I've been impressed with and I'd like to see it change.

VetSiren - her playbook is absurd. I'd be tempted to make her choose between Dread Gaze and damage, rather than getting both on the same (momentous) result in her third column. Maybe swap the 2GBGB result for a 2> or 2>< result? Escaping Fate could probably be toned down to a 3" dodge, or swapped out for something less ridiculous like Unpredictable Movement.

Kraken - He's meant to hold down the centre line of the team, but he's a lot easier to kill because of his awful DEF. What I'd like to see on him is an ability that let him take a Parting Blow the first time someone dodged out of his melee zone each turn. Since that's probably way too strong (but still awful against fighty teams) I'd say his most likely buff would be putting some pushes in his playbook.

Greyscales - 2" UM is absurd, and he's already getting a buff with the Ball's Gone! changes. I wouldn't be surprised if he was reduced to TAC 4 and had the last column of his playbook chopped off, or alternatively lost a few health boxes. Having to use a CPlay to activate Unpredictable Movement would be a possible option, too. Maybe a new functionality for Decoy?

Jac - He's just fine as is in my opinion. Maybe make his heroic push a single model within 4" in any direction instead? More utility, but less absurd edge cases when you chuck two models off the pitch at once. Goad is awful but we know it's staying mostly the same from Marbles' card. Like Blind, it would be way more applicable if it cost 2 influence.

Sakana - he's okay, quite hard to kill, but doesn't get much done personally. I'd love to see a GB< result in his playbook somewhere (even if not momentous). He's a player with Smoke Bomb and Cover of Darkness, who wants to hit people for Weak Point, but doesn't have Skilled Within Shadow or Hidden Damage like Mist/Vitriol. This is disappointing. I'd love to see him gain one or both of those traits, in exchange for some health boxes and/or his point of armor, or only having Poised while in cover.

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I think Kraken may get a new trait:

A Better Way

When this model activates in the 1st turn of a game you may realise that you could do everything and more you had planned with Kraken very easily with Jac or Gutter. You may then immediately remove Kraken from the Pitch and move either Jac or Gutter onto the Pitch at max HP as if they had been returned to play via the Icy Sponge rule.

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11 hours ago, Gauntlet said:

Greyscales - 2" UM is absurd, and he's already getting a buff with the Ball's Gone! changes. I wouldn't be surprised if he was reduced to TAC 4 and had the last column of his playbook chopped off, or alternatively lost a few health boxes. Having to use a CPlay to activate Unpredictable Movement would be a possible option, too. Maybe a new functionality for Decoy?

I think we're in a fair spot needing very few changes so I found most of the suggestions/predictions to be change for change sake rather than something necessary, particularly with vSiren since she's so new changing this soon would give me WM/H mk3 transition flashbacks (haven't played but considering her opportunity cost is not taking Siren I think she has reasonable strength.)

But this one was the only one I take a real issue with. Any one of those besides health drop would make him unplayable for me. With as high on the playbook as balls gone is I've very rarely triggered it, as most models with defense low enough to get it usually have no business holding the ball.

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1 hour ago, Banjulhu said:

I would look to make Kraken Def 3+ to stop him being as much as a momentum battery for other teams as he is right now.

Really doubt that will happen. Matt has said a few times they want to improve strengths rather than reduce weakness when changing players. Would be shocked if Kraken isn't still a Df2 Arm 1 player. Do think Sturdy could happen... but we will have to wait to find out for sure. 

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Sturdy does little to help Kraken though in most sitautions so by and large it would be a niche buff and not help overcome him being avoided in rosters because of his lack of speed, crap footballing ability, low Inf and a Def that shouts "Come hit me for Momentum"

If Kraken had Sturdy on his profile as it is now he would still be ignored in favour of Jack in most teams

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Just now, Banjulhu said:

Sturdy does little to help Kraken though in most sitautions so by and large it would be a niche buff and not help overcome him being avoided in rosters because of his lack of speed, crap footballing ability, low Inf and a Def that shouts "Come hit me for Momentum"

If Kraken had Sturdy on his profile as it is now he would still be ignored in favour of Jack in most teams

Sturdy and a :>>: somewhere around his second or third column would be great. I don't think he needs any more than that.

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1 hour ago, Banjulhu said:

Sturdy does little to help Kraken though in most sitautions so by and large it would be a niche buff and not help overcome him being avoided in rosters because of his lack of speed, crap footballing ability, low Inf and a Def that shouts "Come hit me for Momentum"

If Kraken had Sturdy on his profile as it is now he would still be ignored in favour of Jack in most teams

He's a very different player to Jac. They have almost no overlap (barring tough hide). I take Kraken to act as a tar pit and knock stuff down. I take Jac to make clutch push plays and actively spread models out.

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I find that I can easily drop Jac into a tarpitting role that I really would like Kraken to do as he can eat roughly the same ammount of attacks from an opponent before death due to def 3+ and still do some decent work due to his counter attack bonus when doing so.

Yes Jac cant do the knock down as easily as Kraken, but he can still KD and I find that an acceptable enough pay off to also gain far better opponent repositioning tools, more Inf, better ball control and higher speed.

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1 hour ago, Banjulhu said:

I find that I can easily drop Jac into a tarpitting role that I really would like Kraken to do as he can eat roughly the same ammount of attacks from an opponent before death due to def 3+ and still do some decent work due to his counter attack bonus when doing so.

Yes Jac cant do the knock down as easily as Kraken, but he can still KD and I find that an acceptable enough pay off to also gain far better opponent repositioning tools, more Inf, better ball control and higher speed.

I totally agree that Jac is a better player, but I don't find them comparable at all in that same role - one draws people to him, the other pushes them away. I actually think Kraken has a far better playbook, and therefore a much better counter attack option.

I don't take Kraken that much at the moment, but Vet Siren will almost certainly change that up a bit in some lists. A small buff to him would certainly not hurt, but I like what he does now, but it's not really the same as what Jac does...

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4 minutes ago, LeadDiceandBeers said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Angel gets Escaping Fate.

I think this too, like her Big League card, I think Its a way to test future changes.

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Salt has become Kick 2/4 and loved creature grants a team +1 Tac whenever Salt is damaged by an enemy attack or play.

http://steamforged.com/sfg-news-blog/2016/10/18/season-3-rules-update-mascots-part-2

Also Jac is going to be keeping Get Over Here! [Salt] so Salt has some potential goal threat now and apparently that means we are not allowed to sell the change short... yeah I can totally see me relying on the 2nd weakest kicking model in a team that has no issues moving the ball and scoring.

Sarcasm asside this is a welcome buff. The resource spent to outcome gained on the goal scoring front still feels like it will be too far behind the curve on value, but a base 75% chance to make a pass means Salt could be hooked into early game pass MP generation which is nice. That said I still dont think he offers enough to the team that I'm going to want to give Salt Inf to use his kick of 2/4.

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1 hour ago, Banjulhu said:

Salt has become Kick 2/4 and loved creature grants a team +1 Tac whenever Salt is damaged by an enemy attack or play.

http://steamforged.com/sfg-news-blog/2016/10/18/season-3-rules-update-mascots-part-2

Also Jac is going to be keeping Get Over Here! [Salt] so Salt has some potential goal threat now and apparently that means we are not allowed to sell the change short... yeah I can totally see me relying on the 2nd weakest kicking model in a team that has no issues moving the ball and scoring.

Sarcasm asside this is a welcome buff. The resource spent to outcome gained on the goal scoring front still feels like it will be too far behind the curve on value, but a base 75% chance to make a pass means Salt could be hooked into early game pass MP generation which is nice. That said I still dont think he offers enough to the team that I'm going to want to give Salt Inf to use his kick of 2/4.

I think you're underselling things a bit here.

Remember that Salt is only worth 1VP, rather than 2VPs like the rest of the team. If you're throwing a model forward for a goal early in the game, it's probably going to die - Salt is one of the better choices now given that he's worth half as many points to the enemy.

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49 minutes ago, Gauntlet said:

I think you're underselling things a bit here.

Remember that Salt is only worth 1VP, rather than 2VPs like the rest of the team. If you're throwing a model forward for a goal early in the game, it's probably going to die - Salt is one of the better choices now given that he's worth half as many points to the enemy.

I find that with Shark and particularly Angel I can usually score early game from the middle of the pitch and Run the Length quite comfortably to get back into a place where the scorer is well supported so I dont see enough value in making Salt my turn one goal scoring missile over either of those two.

What would be nice in the fish is the ability to move 1 inf from one player to another to give more options to use team mates as backup scoring options. In that situation I could see myself looking at the table and going "oh crap, my intended scorer is not going to be able to do this, hey you take this inf and go and score". It's why Coin is my favourite mascot, it lets me fix problems as they come up rather than having to guess where it will happen before hand

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I think that using Salt as a goal threat is silly, but I think he becomes decent to retrieve and pass the ball. I can see myself putting 1 INF on him occasionally now.

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9 minutes ago, Frostmane said:

I think that using Salt as a goal threat is silly, but I think he becomes decent to retrieve and pass the ball. I can see myself putting 1 INF on him occasionally now.

Why? He's got the same goal threat range as Greyscales with 3 influence and only 1 dice less - as the article says, if you bonus time his shot, he's actually pretty accurate now, and he risks the least of anyone on the team by exposing himself, as he gives up only a single VP and gives a flat +1 TAC to your whole team if they start damaging him...

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