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shauni55

Playing into Engineers (Ballista)

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If this forum had a sink I'd rip it off the wall out of anger.

My area has quite a few engineer players and I'm SO tired of Ballista... For the life of me I just can't take him down or get past him. Basically everything goes ok until he drops Minefield and I'm screwed. Seenah, Jaecar and Fihad can't charge (without taking damage). Last night I lost Tater (was just playing him for fun) in turn two because he just soaked up the dmg. What do I do here?

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For starters, use momentum generated by charges to heal.  End of activation movement like dodges or back to the shadows from Jaecar can either just not be done if your hp worried, or plan to heal that the next turn if the dodges will keep you safe this time.

 

To help avoid the ranged pushes, get your models onto the obstructions.  This is very important especially if you don't have the ball to help mitigate the positioning issues engineers can present.  Zarola can be used to offset the pushes if necessary, or to jog you out of the obstruction to enable a charge.

 

Use Theron's forest as best as terrain allows to force the ranged engineer players forward or around it to gain LOS.  Use your pushes to help force his movement.  IE push the ranged players around so they have to move back into the momentous aura.  Seenah and Chaska are best at this.  

 

The one thing I would not do is try to get into a primarily ranged battle with them as sun strike isn't nearly as good as the aura for this and it will lead to you losing the momentum battle which will keep things going the way the engineer player wants.  Protect Seenah from Salvo by using other models (Zarola, Fahad) to block LOS to him as 1d character plays are pretty awful if there isn't anything below DEF 3 to shoot at.

 

Hopefully some of this was helpful for you.  Feel free to ask more specific questions and/or give team makeups and I'm sure someone can help you more.

 

 

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I personally have only played against engineers when the pilot was new to the game or team so take this with a grain of salt.

I think this is a matchup where your strategy is decided almost completely by his specific 6. 

For example if he goes ballista, mainspring, ratchet, salvo, collosus, velocity then your edge is melee. With our defwnce debuffs velocity, salvo and ratchet are pretty soft targets. My experience is to basically never try to kill tough hide models with hunters. Not worth the effort.

However if he brought ballista, mainspring, salvo, ratchet, gutter, rage then I would say he has the edge in the beat down game. In both cases he probably has better control so against this squad you want to try to leverage the speed/ manouverability you have from jaecar, midnight offering and Theron to outscore him with maybe 2 takeouts.

Look up the concept of "the beat down vs control" from magic the gathering if you haven't heard of it. It's a good way of looking at how your strategy should change constantly based on your plays vs the other guy's playa and the current game state.

Hunters an engineer's play in basically all phases of the game but aren't great at any of them so I think this is a very volatile matxhup.

Hope that helps :)

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Hmm, that sounds pretty tough. I think I would try to control from range and then try for takeouts as the lines close. look for a 4-1 win. Velocity, rage, gutter and mother are very killable. 

Luckily have pretty good tools for trying to alpha strike. Ranged snares + midnight offering can let jaecar do some serious dmg turn one. The issue is that ballista can gen momentum from range and hold his activation until late to try to control jaeca

 I would probably try to kick for last activation and really work ranged angle first turn. Maybe egret kicking for and early flurry and retreat? Hold that threat of jaecar as late as you can and use him to go after someone on their side with zarola's help or punish one of his players for getting into melee with you. If all goes well you should have a good shot of going first and getting a takeout and/or a goal.

Sounds like a fun and difficult matchup :)

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Ker-bump.

Played into Engineers for the first time. The main issue I had into them was Colossus. That guy loves hugging balls and not sharing. Between close control, two armor, and low access knock down; getting the ball from him is a major PITA. If you go for the tackle, he will ignore the first one (if you even land it) and counter attack knock down. I am personally not digging the idea of multiple activations to simply swipe the ball.  Hearne and Seenah seem to be the most appropriate solution with their lower access to knock down (though I would not bank on Hearne with his TAC 5 vs 2 armor, three successes seem dodgy at best), but then you run into the problem of telegraphing your best solution.  

Theron's forest does little to contain him, and Rachet  will simply remove the snare condition so our usual methods for control don't work as much as I'd hope. I suppose pinning him down can do some work, but still does not solve the stealing the ball away problem. 

Solutions?

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Focus hard on other players? What about two/three boom boxes? With the low defense (+1 die if snared) Chaska should be able to control Colossus's movement with good positioning. Tough hide will reduce the damage, but that is still putting out a ton of damage that is almost sure to hit. We definitely struggle as a team to steal the ball with our high tackles. KD is rare as well. I don't think we have the activations or influence to really focus on stealing the ball. Again though a couple boom boxes from Chaska and then a charge from the bear with some influence should put Colossus in the ground.

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You could try and physically contain him, but that's not terribly effective with his wrecking ball thing (2" push to each model he touches - forget what it's called).

Honestly, if Colossus has the ball, I'd just let him keep it. Tie up the players he would want to pass it to and force him to score a goal himself. It'll give your opponent four points, but you may be able to get a model or two taken out in the time it takes him to score all by his onesies, and it will mean you don't have to worry about Colossus doing a bunch of melee damage for a turn or two.

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1 hour ago, wrenwood said:

Focus hard on other players? What about two/three boom boxes? With the low defense (+1 die if snared) Chaska should be able to control Colossus's movement with good positioning. Tough hide will reduce the damage, but that is still putting out a ton of damage that is almost sure to hit. We definitely struggle as a team to steal the ball with our high tackles. KD is rare as well. I don't think we have the activations or influence to really focus on stealing the ball. Again though a couple boom boxes from Chaska and then a charge from the bear with some influence should put Colossus in the ground.

That's a great idea!  I've learned the power of Chaska in a 13 INF Hunters team the other night.  2-3 Boom boxes every turn meant 8-12 *guaranteed* damage against low DEF people.  Heck, even the DEF 4 people were murdered because I got snared and gut and string on them before I boom boxed them.  With Colossus, that's 6-9 damage (because Tough Hide), but combined with another 4 from Jaecar, you're already half way there.  Probably need Seenah in this case with the +1 damage from snared too.

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