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      Training Ground   02/14/2018

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Meph

Tenderizer

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So curious about who is using Tenderizer at all ... how ... and to what degree of success.  I am curious about using him against football teams but wonder if what is lost in aggression is make up for in a +1 TN or potential tackle by staying near the goal for the most part.  His character plays seem strong but ground pound is pretty expensive while seeming very situational.

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I love him.

As a goalkeeper:  Turns off Snap Shots, forces your opponents to move awkwardly to get around Rush Keeper.  Creates a protection field around him to deny areas of the pitch and protect characters.  His 1 inf goes to someone else while he has a big impact on your opponent's turn at 0 inf.  Generally if you're taking him you don't need to worry about takeouts from the other team, so losing the body upfield isn't that big of a deal.

As an anchor for Ox (up the field): 2" melee, Knockdown on 3, good damage output (and *crazy* value out of dice spikes) and 19 health to stay alive with.  1/4 is unfortunate but Ox has the INF to spare.

 

Sometimes he's an 8" Kick that knocks people down.  And even less frequently then that, sometimes he uses One-Touch Football to turn into a 22" goal threat

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I like him a lot as a goalkeeper for complicating scoring for my opponent, he makes a good denial piece. Even though he rarely makes an attack I find he pays for himself.

He's great with Fillet because he rarely needs influence.

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He is one of the reasons I got into butchers.  He is an awesome goal keeper.  

The +tn is harsh for scoring teams, and if you line up the rush keeper move, you can make it +2.

Generally he lurks just within 4 inches of my goal with a protective bubble reaching out to keep my other players safe while I line up moves.

His reach is rare in butchers, which can make him an asset upfield.

Also note, the counter charge on rush keeper isn't once per turn.  I had one instance of him counter charging twice so far.  While rare, it was crazy fun!

 

He has always been in my 8.

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So against Engineers ... is he worth a starting spot? Or stick to Gutter??

I may have to play him regardless based on what you guys are saying ... dying to see him in action.

 

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As a main fish player who's planning on dabbling in butchers soon... who am I kidding I'll probably end up with all teams one day.

Tenderiser is the only goal keeper currently out who feels like he does anything, as a fisherman. vVelocity sounds significant too, but compound is just a step between brick and a mascot. If my opponent might bring Tenderiser I'm bringing Siren and Kraken for sure to get him out of that 4" goalie box.

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19 hours ago, x22 said:

He is one of the reasons I got into butchers.  He is an awesome goal keeper.  

The +tn is harsh for scoring teams, and if you line up the rush keeper move, you can make it +2.

Generally he lurks just within 4 inches of my goal with a protective bubble reaching out to keep my other players safe while I line up moves.

His reach is rare in butchers, which can make him an asset upfield.

Also note, the counter charge on rush keeper isn't once per turn.  I had one instance of him counter charging twice so far.  While rare, it was crazy fun!

 

He has always been in my 8.

Wouldn't stacking the TN require your opponent to make a mistake though? You need to be close enough to trigger Rush Keeper and still be 4" from the goal. That's fine for things with only 6" kick but I think a lot of scoring threats will be coming from outside that bubble?

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7 minutes ago, Ostrakon said:

Wouldn't stacking the TN require your opponent to make a mistake though? You need to be close enough to trigger Rush Keeper and still be 4" from the goal. That's fine for things with only 6" kick but I think a lot of scoring threats will be coming from outside that bubble?

Getting the +2tn on the shot is harder, but still possible.  I've done it a few times.  I'm quite sure once you've done it to someone once they will work to not let you do it again.

What I find happens more often is they are forced to come into rush keeper range to make their shot, you counter charge and position Tenderizer in a way to screen them from the goal, keeping the +1 tn.  This way if you don't knock them down, or push them out of shot range, there is still the hindrance to their shot.

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Also doesn't Rush Keeper not trigger on dodges? Seems like it's really easy for a lot of scoring dudes to bypass it with plays even if they can't just sit outside.

My buddy is picking up Fish and I don't see the +1TN making much of a difference against someone like Shark or Angel, except for turning off Snap Shots and even then the odds aren't that bad on 4 dice.

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True, it doesn't trigger off of dodges, so there are ways around rush keeper.  I find that the threat of it can just mess enough with the scoring teams enough for it to be worth hit.  I love him vs fish, but that is just me.  Try him out and see what you think.  I find him to always come off the bench for those games.

 

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1 hour ago, Ostrakon said:

Also doesn't Rush Keeper not trigger on dodges? Seems like it's really easy for a lot of scoring dudes to bypass it with plays even if they can't just sit outside.

My buddy is picking up Fish and I don't see the +1TN making much of a difference against someone like Shark or Angel, except for turning off Snap Shots and even then the odds aren't that bad on 4 dice.

Yeah ,another way you can get around it is to advance within 2" of him because you can't charge a target you're already engaging.  But you make those movements a lot less efficient, which turns into slowing down the goal attempts.  And that's all you really need, because the fisherman *will* score.  You just need to slow it down enough to get 6 frags.

 

Snap Shots are risky business - TN 5 with 4 dice has a 40% chance of 2 successes, which isn't great odds for a 2 MOM play.

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One thing I have found is I like to pull him in closer to the goal if I feel an approaching goal attempt. I have had Flint come in for a score when I was at the edge of the 4" zone, he came into engagement & hit Tenderizer for a push dodge which means he was able to bounce himself out of engagement and push T out of the zone. Not cool.

I just mention it because your opponent has to think about him but so do you.

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On 8/24/2016 at 4:27 PM, butterbaste said:

One thing I have found is I like to pull him in closer to the goal if I feel an approaching goal attempt. I have had Flint come in for a score when I was at the edge of the 4" zone, he came into engagement & hit Tenderizer for a push dodge which means he was able to bounce himself out of engagement and push T out of the zone. Not cool.

I just mention it because your opponent has to think about him but so do you.

And then Flint proceeded to miss the goal with 4 dice after that brilliant push/dodge move. :P

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Well, I decided I should update everyone on my experiences with Tenderiser since I've used him a lot more now.

I've determined with Ox, I actually don't like using him very much at all.

My Ox list is just too tight, and I like an all-out, everyone-can-kill-anyone approach with that team, so Tenderizer produces too little Influence, and doesn't really have a ton of offensive potential compared to other players. Plus, I feel like I'm losing 2 of his main rules in that sort of playstyle.

In Fillet, I actually now auto-include him. It's exactly rules-as-written type of playstyle for me. I have him donate his 1 INF to Fillet, and keep him back, defending the goal. It sounds very typical, but it actually works. It reduces your opponents ability to get goals (through +1 TN), and it reduces their ability to get some more "conventional" goals with models who don't have super-long kicks and mobility (ie: move close to the goal, and kick it in) due to the KD counter-charge.

I've had great success fitting him in, because it feels like he gets to do something, even if he is just sitting around, and Fillet and friends are free to split the Influence among one less person while not having someone be unproductive.

TLDR: Tenderiser- good with Fillet. Mixed Feelings (more on the bad side) with Ox.

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I used him in a game against the Fishermen yesterday, and while I never had an opportunity to use Rush Keeper his +1 TN saved stopped two goal shots. 

The game ended 12-8, and was one of the toughest games I've played yet. My opponent was rightly focused on scoring, and his Goal Defense kept me in the game. Shooting on goal with 3 or less dice made me feel fairly safe.

I came to understand something in the game: If you can end the round with Tenderizer in possession, you need to load up with 2 influence to Seismic Kick the ball clear. It can't be intercepted, and I wish I had done that. Would have saved me a goal.

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