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Veteran Siren and Tentacles

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2 minutes ago, FearLord said:

Yes, that does make it trickier... I can definitely see games where I would much rather have Vet Siren, but I would be extremely reluctant to leave Siren out of my line up for a whole event...

I think it's all quite dependent on the Guild involved and on personal preferences. Assuming you get 8 spots on your roster, 2 of which are a Captain and a Mascot, and you want to take your second Captain as well it would get tricky including both versions of a player anyway: your only choices would be between the 2 Captains and between your veteran and his or her regular version. And personally I think I'm really going to want to bring Kraken when I'm using Veteran Siren, but I don't when she's not on the pitch. I typically don't want the same team with both of our Captains either. Unless rosters get expanded, choices are probably always going to be difficult. Which is not a bad thing.

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Thanks Pangur Ban, not english speakers have problems sometimes!

I totally agree with FearLord

22 minutes ago, FearLord said:

Yes, that does make it trickier... I can definitely see games where I would much rather have Vet Siren, but I would be extremely reluctant to leave Siren out of my line up for a whole event...

 

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Just now, Pangur Ban said:

I think it's all quite dependent on the Guild involved and on personal preferences. Assuming you get 8 spots on your roster, 2 of which are a Captain and a Mascot, and you want to take your second Captain as well it would get tricky including both versions of a player anyway: your only choices would be between the 2 Captains and between your veteran and his or her regular version. And personally I think I'm really going to want to bring Kraken when I'm using Veteran Siren, but I don't when she's not on the pitch. I typically don't want the same team with both of our Captains either. Unless rosters get expanded, choices are probably always going to be difficult. Which is not a bad thing.

True, but 2 Captain Rosters are only for Championship level events, and will give you 9 roster spots. If I were building a 9 player team that gave me options for both Captains right now, I'd probably go with:

Shark

Corsair

Salt

Siren

Jac

Sakana

Greyscales

Angel

Gutter

 

My standard 'all comers' Shark list is Shark, Salt, Greyscales, Siren, Jac, Sakana at the moment, with the ability for Angel to come in for someone as required.

With Corsair, I like to use Corsair, Salt, Angel, Sakana, Jac, Gutter with Siren as the main swap in vs teams I feel I'll get more use from a static beating team than a flexible goal threat / takeout threat team.

For an 8 man roster with just one Captain, and the option to take Vet Siren, I would have really enjoyed having her on the bench for certain match ups, but Siren's tool box is just so useful I'm not sure I could leave it out. I think you could be right though, that it will require a different style of team, and possibly using Kraken as well - arguably a team with Corsair, Gutter and Kraken doesn't need lure as much (or Seduction), so might make for an interesting fighting team with Vet Siren in support with perhaps Sakana (or Angel) working the wings and looking for 1 goal...

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16 minutes ago, FearLord said:

True, but 2 Captain Rosters are only for Championship level events, and will give you 9 roster spots.

...

For sure. The 8-player roster with a single Captain doesn't leave that much room for flexibility either though, at least not for me, if 2 spots are taken by mutually exclusive players. A lot just depends on small details either working out or not: I like having Hemlocke and Gutter as substitutes for instance, and fortunately enough games where I want Hemlocke I usually don't want Gutter and vice versa. That makes it easier to fit them in the roster. However, I certainly couldn't take them both if I wanted (and could) take both Sirens, so in that case I'd have some hard thinking to do about what would make actually viable teams. There's choices to be made anyway (suppose I do take Hemlocke and Gutter, where does that leave Angel? And so on...), but there are different considerations for every Guild and every player.  

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Did anyone comment and the two-fer of Blind and Dread Gaze? It would allow you to seriously shutdown reprisal? It's not a certain thing, but is certainly an annoying thing. Heck, that blind combines with a rather large amount of the Fisherman's debuff play.

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37 minutes ago, bathoz said:

Did anyone comment and the two-fer of Blind and Dread Gaze? It would allow you to seriously shutdown reprisal? It's not a certain thing, but is certainly an annoying thing. Heck, that blind combines with a rather large amount of the Fisherman's debuff play.

We already had Blind, on a model that's quite likely to be able to Bonus Time it on the first activation of your turn too. I'm pretty happy with Blind on Tentacles, but it's going to be much more of a shot to nothing than with Hemlocke.

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Regarding vSiren and the discussion on Dread Gaze; +2 ARM is considerably stronger than -2 TAC. Imagine a TAC 5 model looking for 3 net hits. Then it's the difference between rolling 5 successes on 5 dice and rolling 3 successes on 3 dice. If you think of -2 TAC as +2 ARM you'll be greatly disappointed.

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It depends on who the model is attacking. If a model is hitting a DEF2+ model, then those two dice would average 1.66 hits so you basically gained 1.66 ARM. If you're hitting someone who is DEF5+, you only average 0.66 hits on those two dice so you basically gained 0.66 ARM. If you have a 4+ model then it's 1 ARM effectively.

Note that gaining ARM would also be potentially negated by Anatomical Precision and Ox's Legendary on players where those plays wouldn't have an effect before, whereas reducing TAC can't really be 'ignored' by anything. I'd treat it as pretty similar to +1 ARM overall, which is pretty strong considering it's an AOE effect unlike plays like Tough Skin.

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Yeah sorry - I think I was over egging it slightly on the first page without really thinking it through fully - removing 2 gross rolls is of course not as good as removing 2 net hits, but it's still pretty decent across the board, given that it's an aura. It'll take a dedicated assault to bring her down in one activation, and she can really up the tanky ness of the whole team...

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