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Tulsy

Let's Talk Hunter's - Jaecar

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19 hours ago, Tarc Maylor said:

I'm a newer player so it's likely I'm wrong, but I figured that traps would be activated if the enemy model jogs/sprints(/charges) into it... I never considered using pushes to get them into one.  With the season 2 attack timing stuff though, you couldn't declare a charge and place a trap before you roll your TAC, but if you advance and then attack you *could* place between your movement and TAC roll, right?  Jaecar was already a great addition to the team, but that... is considerably better.

yup, push is fine - says movement in his ability rules, not just advance. Really handy!

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This may be covered elsewhere, but is giving up your movement to remove knocked down a move?  If I put a pit trap next to someone that's knocked down, do they trigger it standing up?

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1 hour ago, ErgonomicCat said:

This may be covered elsewhere, but is giving up your movement to remove knocked down a move?  If I put a pit trap next to someone that's knocked down, do they trigger it standing up?

The rules specifically say forfeiting your advance does NOT count as a move. Page 20 under Standard-Advance. Would be pretty awesome if it did though.

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3 hours ago, aryus said:

The rules specifically say forfeiting your advance does NOT count as a move. Page 20 under Standard-Advance. Would be pretty awesome if it did though.

Makes sense.

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On 4/17/2016 at 10:52 PM, Tulsy said:

I have finally been able to get him on the board. He is a beast. Will do a better write up later, but he had 3 takeouts in my first game.  He does a silly amount of damage and gets anywhere he wants. Each turn he was loaded up with 4 and generated 6 momentum - 2 from the wrapped charge, 3 from other playbook results, 1 for the takeout. 

If you ever playing against him - he is your number one take out priority. 

Played one game with him myself.  Yes, truly a beast. 

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Just to clarify, if you ran or walked up to a model and placed the trap within 1" of an enemy model, and if you didn't get 4 hits (first push is on 4), pit fall would still go off when the enemy model tried to move, and that includes dodges ? So they either stay where they are or take the snare and bleed ?

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10 minutes ago, Jakarn said:

Just to clarify, if you ran or walked up to a model and placed the trap within 1" of an enemy model, and if you didn't get 4 hits (first push is on 4), pit fall would still go off when the enemy model tried to move, and that includes dodges ? So they either stay where they are or take the snare and bleed ?

Correct. Any movement while within range triggers the trap. Movement includes advances and repositions (but not places, such as Smoke's Cloud Jumper or Hearne's Natures Blessing).

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Thanks, playing first hunters game tomorrow that seems a little OP so wanted to make sure I had it right. But I know that what looks good on paper, is usually a lot harder to pull off in game :) .

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On 27/04/2016 at 11:35 AM, Ratty said:

I believe placing a trap would be an 'active' Trait. 

"Once per turn during this model’s activation, the Controlling Player may place a friendly 40mm pitfallmarker within [2”] of this model. A Player may only have [1] friendly pitfall-marker on the Pitch. When an enemy model moves within [1”] of a friendly pitfall-marker, that model immediately suffers the snared and bleed conditions and the pitfall-marker is removed"

"Active Characters Traits are effects that may be used during the model’s activation. Active Character Traits are actions (and so may not interrupt another action)."

Just had a game against the hunters and was complete stumped by this pitfall trap. Can you place it so close to an opponent that they can’t move without setting it off i.e. within an inch. It seems a little harsh. Surely moving “into” it would trigger it but not directly away from it whilst just moving. Is is really legal to place it within an inch of the model meaning that whatever they do it triggers?

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2 hours ago, Timbo2020 said:

Just had a game against the hunters and was complete stumped by this pitfall trap. Can you place it so close to an opponent that they can’t move without setting it off i.e. within an inch. It seems a little harsh. Surely moving “into” it would trigger it but not directly away from it whilst just moving. Is is really legal to place it within an inch of the model meaning that whatever they do it triggers?

Yes, that is a way it can be used. This is why Jaecar's push/dodge on 4 is so important as he can push a model into his own trap. He can also position it so the second the model moves it becomes snared (no dodging out to avoid the snare). One way to mitigate this is to have another model trigger the snare or even better, have a model already snared activate the trap. 

 

If you didn't like Jaecar's trap shenanigans, you're really not going to enjoy the Chaska "I Boom Box you 1 micrometer to trigger my snare and now my remaining Boom Boxes are easier to hit."

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2 hours ago, angyi said:

It is yes. But you can remove the trap with another activation before said model. (Happens too often.)

That's exactly why I try to always pop the trap during Jaecar's activation. Who wants to give your opponent "options"?

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On 4/17/2016 at 10:42 AM, Tulsy said:

I am giving the starter box a good 10 play throughs before I do a major wrote up, but so far I have been able to keep 4 on Jaecar. I have to sacrifice other cool things, but when one model can get 3-4 takes outs in a game...

Make sure to run vs Engineers (tough hide/Reanimate), blacksmiths (2+ armor/lots of access to KD) and Farmers (more health than he can take out in one activation reliably).  These 3 guilds to me exemplify the models he struggles with, while not every guild has any one of these in abundance (and you can build any of these teams in a way that doesn't utilize these strengths) many popular picks in other guilds do have these traits and can shut him down hard (in my experience).

It's also worth noting that his trap is easy to counter for an experienced player.  You simply walk a model by it that can go where they need to go with the -2 movement and then spend 1 momentum to clear conditions.  I've had games where I put it down next to a mascot and my opponent refused to move their mascot because they didn't want to take bleed ... for 4 rounds.  Teams that do this easily are teams that like to clump up such as V. Rage Butchers and teams that have an abundance of reach (reducing their need for movement) such as Fish, and finally teams that can pop around easily to ignore triggering such as Engineers (using mother and hoist) and smoke Alchemist.

Assuming he does 6 on the charge (needing to hit all but 2 dice) and 4 from follow up swings he's topping out at taking down 10 hp models by himself.  Of course this changes if the target is snared/KD/Singled out, all of which you can get from Theron and Hearne pretty reliably reliably (again KD and Snared can be cleared before Jaecar activates).

As I've said before he's not a bad model but I think it's easy to get caught up in seeing him take out 1 or 2 models 'by himself' in a game and get too hyped.  He is very punishing vs opponents that leave low movement models unsupported (such as a boar without Fillet, VBrisket or gutter) to move thier beater/pull models into their threat ranges, and vs opponents that leave 4/1 and weaker (defensively) in his threat range without some kind of support/not at full hit points.  And bluntly some guilds can't avoid that.  I think he's boardline busted into Tapper Brewers, Masons, Morts and none Rage union.

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Jaecar is definitely one of the best models in the game. But like any well designed model, he has significant and exploitable weaknesses.,

He is easily the most flexible tool the Hunters have. He does lots of reliable, momentous damage, covers the map extremely well, can hand out Gut and String and can hand out Snare. He's even a sneaky good goal scorer thanks to his speed and ability to disengage. Outside of Skatha, Jaecar has definitely been the leading scorer/playmaker on my roster.

But he's also a 4/0 Def model with 1" melee and no knockdown, which makes him extremely susceptible to counter attacks. Players with access to a double dodge, push dodge, or double push on the first three columns are scary for him if he doesn't have another model to jump into. He also goes down ridiculously fast if a team manages to catch up to him. This means that while Jaecar can do a ton of work that he can be shut down in certain match ups or with bad positioning. I personally don't run him into Engineers because of how good they are at disengaging with counter attacks and how resilient they are. Other than that, he's viable in every match up but certainly has to be careful about who and when he engages.

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On 11/12/2017 at 8:53 PM, Shrinkydinkman said:

That's exactly why I try to always pop the trap during Jaecar's activation. Who wants to give your opponent "options"?

The downside of this is that it lets your opponent clear conditions at the start of their activation. By not triggering it, they are essentially forced to add in an activation (Not always but sometimes beneficial) and if take it on the intended models can't clear till after their advance so will be 2" movement down.

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6 hours ago, 21B said:

The downside of this is that it lets your opponent clear conditions at the start of their activation. By not triggering it, they are essentially forced to add in an activation (Not always but sometimes beneficial) and if take it on the intended models can't clear till after their advance so will be 2" movement down.

Absolutely. Unless Jaecar threatens the kill with his remaining attacks and the snare, I almost never pop the trap.

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