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Vet Graves spoiled

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50 minutes ago, Narak said:

Also, biggest issue here is that you are taking Casket and this guy. Really I don't feel like that is a good plan.

Probably not, but thematically it's very cool

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3 def / 2 arm - hat a boss.  He looks really cool in the splash art as well :).

His playbook is really nice too.  Having momentous 1 GB on 2 hits is awesome since he has two GB results.

 

He's not going to like Midas/Hoist though :(

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Looks like he will pose yet more problems for the right team selection. There is a 2"push with 2 damage on there too. And a 1" on one hits well.  With Ghast, Casket & Bonesaw, that is a lot of pushes available.

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2 hours ago, DrillbossD said:

@Jorenm 3 takeouts 1 goal or 4 takeouts now. 3 + 3 + 4 + 4 or 3 + 3 + 2 + 4.

Unless Casket can still double Casket time in which case you can end the game with 3 takeouts (I don't think this is true).

Casket Time + Gravedigger = 5,. Takeout with Gravedigger = 3, Goal = 4. 12 points with 2 takeouts and 1 goal.

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It is amazing he kept 2 inch reach.  I think Gravedigger is enticing but again its even more setup to the Casket Time if you want to put that together and furthermore in order for it to be relevant at all it has to be associated with 2 takeouts as mathematically 1 VP alone won't help you unless your opponent clocks out.

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50 minutes ago, Paddo said:

It is amazing he kept 2 inch reach.  I think Gravedigger is enticing but again its even more setup to the Casket Time if you want to put that together and furthermore in order for it to be relevant at all it has to be associated with 2 takeouts as mathematically 1 VP alone won't help you unless your opponent clocks out.

I just wish Gravedigger did some damage too D:

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20 minutes ago, Narak said:

I just wish Gravedigger did some damage too D:

Kind of does although not very much. 2nd column on the playbook - Momentous :P: and 1 Damage

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I just mean, he ends up being a player that sets up if he is using Gravedigger, and Bleed is useless if you use Gravedigger, with such a low tac he ends up Doug basically nothing besides gravedigger and a momentum + 1 damage or a knockdown no momentum. I just wish Gravedigger was a passive or something. I'll have to see him being played, but I feel Ghast just bruisers better with momentous knockdown and unmasking if you get it.

 

like if Gravedigger did 2 damage also, you'd get 3 damage with that initial strike, and since you can only cast it once, you cannot spam it, so everything after is just for some extra damage, momentum, or knockdown. 

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On 4/2/2016 at 9:05 AM, Narak said:

It's a Legendary, so no, ALSO you can easily wiff, since you use the legendary, and they IF you take them out.

Also, biggest issue here is that you are taking Casket and this guy. Really I don't feel like that is a good plan.

There was a time pre-errata where the wording was such that he could pop the Legendary, and if in that activation you popped it have Casket kill more than one player, they each would reward 4 and be gone from the game permanently. Didn't have the card on hand so was just double checking that both parts have changed.

What's the big issue with taking both him and casket? Looks like he's melee range 2" at least.

On 4/2/2016 at 11:49 AM, LeadDiceandBeers said:

Casket Time + Gravedigger = 5,. Takeout with Gravedigger = 3, Goal = 4. 12 points with 2 takeouts and 1 goal.

Ah right, did not think about stacking them. That is nutty.

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The main thing I'm wondering is that they previously said none of the veteran players would outshine the older versions of themselves..

While I'm still not sure either of them would get play with Dirge, there is no reason to take the old Graves with the new mascot...

The +1 Inf as standard is just a kicker..

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11 minutes ago, The Old Buzzard said:

If a player is taken out in the maintenance phase from bleed is that "this turn" as far as  'gravedigger ' is concerned?

Bill

Gravedigger should have already expired if you're in the next turn's maintenance phase.

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19 hours ago, DrillbossD said:

There was a time pre-errata where the wording was such that he could pop the Legendary, and if in that activation you popped it have Casket kill more than one player, they each would reward 4 and be gone from the game permanently. Didn't have the card on hand so was just double checking that both parts have changed.

What's the big issue with taking both him and casket? Looks like he's melee range 2" at least.

Ah right, did not think about stacking them. That is nutty.

Because two players that don't really do damage and just want the VP bonus isn't really conducive to a good game plan. Casket does more than that, and so does graves, but I don't think id like them setting up 5vp kills.

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This truly is half a card and it can't be completely judged until Vileswarm is known.  As it stands, in spite of the extra Influence, I'd go as far as to say that regular Graves is better.

When Casket has a more offensive playbook you're obviously not made to kill anything.  Gravedigger essentially means "bring Rage" because we still only have Cosset as a true in-guild damage dealer and she will prefer to play with Dirge.

Hopefully Vileswarm does something amazing for Vet Graves and makes me eat my words; I'd be happy to do so.

 

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20 minutes ago, WiLDRAGE said:

This truly is half a card and it can't be completely judged until Vileswarm is known.  As it stands, in spite of the extra Influence, I'd go as far as to say that regular Graves is better.

When Casket has a more offensive playbook you're obviously not made to kill anything.  Gravedigger essentially means "bring Rage" because we still only have Cosset as a true in-guild damage dealer and she will prefer to play with Dirge.

Hopefully Vileswarm does something amazing for Vet Graves and makes me eat my words; I'd be happy to do so.

 

Surely maverick will stop gravedigger working though if Rage takes the player out. Unless you pound with rage first and then apply gravedigger with graves.

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4 minutes ago, nobby said:

Surely maverick will stop gravedigger working though if Rage takes the player out. Unless you pound with rage first and then apply gravedigger with graves.

Gravedigger affects the enemy model not Rage. The VPs are added to the team rather than individual player.

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1 minute ago, nobby said:

Surely maverick will stop gravedigger working though if Rage takes the player out. Unless you pound with rage first and then apply gravedigger with graves.

I see Gravedigger more like a debuff placed on the opponent's player than a buff for the team.  As such Rage would trigger it since the only condition is for the model to suffer the Taken-Out condition.

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42 minutes ago, LeadDiceandBeers said:

Gravedigger affects the enemy model not Rage. The VPs are added to the team rather than individual player.

 

21 minutes ago, WiLDRAGE said:

I see Gravedigger more like a debuff placed on the opponent's player than a buff for the team.  As such Rage would trigger it since the only condition is for the model to suffer the Taken-Out condition.

But as rage is inflicting the TO wouldn't it be affected by it? This is a genuine question btw, not me stirring the pot again :P

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15 minutes ago, nobby said:

 

But as rage is inflicting the TO wouldn't it be affected by it? This is a genuine question btw, not me stirring the pot again :P

Probably needs clarifying but current ruling is:

Anything benefiting Rage, so Singled Out increasing his TAC, or Marked Target increasing his MOV, would not affect Rage due to Maverick.   Anything that debuffs an enemy model (Thousand Cuts, Dirty Knives) would still have the effect as it's not affecting Rage.

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I just thought of something else.  Because Gravedigger only grants 1 extra VP, it is mathematically irrelevant when winning unless you trigger it two or four times per match.  If you don't do it at least twice, you still need the exact same combination of Goals and/or Take Outs to win.

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18 minutes ago, WiLDRAGE said:

I just thought of something else.  Because Gravedigger only grants 1 extra VP, it is mathematically irrelevant when winning unless you trigger it two or four times per match.  If you don't do it at least twice, you still need the exact same combination of Goals and/or Take Outs to win.

Which indirectly promotes Casket's use. 

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8 minutes ago, LeadDiceandBeers said:

Which indirectly promotes Casket's use. 

How so?  Casket grants an even number of extra VP; it doesn't change the math with Gravedigger.  As soon as you get Gravedigger to trigger once, you've got an odd number of points.  At 11, you still need a take out to win and at 13 Gravedigger made no difference.  It has to hit two or four times exactly until there is another way to earn an odd number of VP.

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